From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #323 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Thurs, 5 Aug 1999 Vol 06 : Num 323 In this issue: eskrima: Easy boys!!! eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #318 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #322 [none] eskrima: Re: Keating or Worden? eskrima: Kelly Worden eskrima: Big Three Seminar in Seattle eskrima: REGARDING DATU ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rocky Pasiwk Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 23:36:52 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Easy boys!!! Ok guys I am posting this for everyone. For some strange reason I got a dozen e-mails, thinking I was slamming the Crafty one, in my post, by referring to him as being in trouble if there was a writing test. FOR YOU NEWER GUYS!!! It has been a kind of running joke for a couple of years. Crafty always picks on me for my spelling or grammar. What with him being a Lawyer and some what of a brain child and all. But its all in fun he knows I am just $*$* with as do I when ever he trashes my grammar. The ironic thing is my top student is also a Lawyer, thank god the two of them don't hang together, or I 'd real be in trouble. I have never met the Craft Master, just talked a couple times, but his wife has helped me tremendously, with my web page. And I pretty much support most everything he does and always encourage people to train with him, and I am sure he knows that. So before I get anymore mail one way or the other get your facts straight. We have know problems , now that weird Ray guy! now that's a different story, OOps I meant to think that last sentence not write it :-)) Rocky Pasiwk ------------------------------ From: CArena7028@aol.com Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 23:38:50 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #318 If a true instructor such as Professor Remy Presas gives an individual the title of "Datu" and for the following years he himself refers to this individual in public as "Datu", then I could only expect that individual to be a "Datu". Sort of a walks like a duck , talks like a duck thing you know. Why waste time on the semantics. This is America and our reality is concrete, asphalt & curbs! Chris. ------------------------------ From: Filovir1@aol.com Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 23:42:34 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #322 I noticed my mistake about the Comtech reference and Datu Kelly Worden after I read the new addition of the Digest that my question appeared, but I figured anyone who new the answer to my question would correct me. I also put her instead of he. Sorry if I offended anyone associated with either person Thanks for the information, by the way, his new video from Plaladin Press about the expandable baton is very good, and that is why I was interested in his background. But, since I made the mistake and brought it up anyway, does anyone know about Master-at-Arms James Keating's background (instructors, martial arts, etc.)? ------------------------------ From: Luis Pellicer Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 13:27:55 +0800 Subject: [none] Your friend in training, Big Joe A. P.S. I am only a lowly white belt so no titles yet. Who knows maybe some day I will be called Super Duper Fly Datu of The Universe. Yeah I think I like the sound of that. Hey Big Joe! What you are speaking of is actually a ranking system with a particular FMA school. Traditionally, FMA had NO ranking system. Those with knowledge passed it on to those with less. (Similar to the Chinese system of a teacher and students of various rank, rank in an informal sense, based on seniority, knowledge and ability. If you went off and took in a student from outside your group, you became "teacher".) The idea of a "school" was a later concept, and the curriculums most now experience in the US is the attempt to formalize an Art which was practiced for centuries in an informal way. The concept of ranking through "belts" was actually borrowed from the Japanese systems, this obviously is a very new introduction as is the title "Master" "Grand Master" etc. There are no definite terms on how to address individuals, as tribal dialects vary WITHIN themselves. Now, the segregation of Filipino regions into Luzon, Visaya and Mindanao and the assumption that those within the region share similar languages and styles is another misconception. If you are fluent in tagalog and travel a couple of hours north of Manila, you'll find yourself in an area where the dialect would be Greek to you. (Many Filipinos are multi lingual, they have to be if they deal with people from different areas.) When my grandmother speaks pangalatok, I haven't got a clue as to what she is saying. This holds true with the Arts as well. To study and master the Northern Arts alone would take more than a lifetime. Unfortunately many of our old Masters were not very well educated in the Western sense. ( We are talking historical accuracy and Western organized thought as passed through formalized education.) In trying to pass on thier knowledge to a Western audience they "winged" it in terms of structured curriculum, something they may not have to have done back home. ( Which is why practically every school has a different structure, unlike the Japanese systems which are far better organized and uniform.) This is not relevant in terms of what you learned, because without a doubt, America is full of very good and capable AMERICAN Escrimadors. But if you vouche for the authenticity of a system which has been remodeled to fit the Western mindframe, it may not be exactly true. Dominos or Pizza Hut come out with pretty good pizzas, but don't tell a Neapolitan Restaurant owner that it is authentic, no matter how good it tastes. Again, this doesn't mean that they don't taste good. I can check with some people at the University of the Philippines History Department, but as far as I know, the term "Raja" is a southern term and not exclusively a northern one. Politically, the Datu would be like a Mayor, Raja like a Governor, and Sultan like a president. (Western political terminologies though, realistically they are political, social and military designations) This is outside our area of interest and is a study all in itself, but since my wife is the Grandniece of Datu Paunding, I find it fascinating. What is the point of all this? None. Just simple clarifications of terminologies for anyone interested. After all, in Dan Inosantos book on the FMA I think it was the late Jack Santos who stated that "the young guys just want to learn how to kick ass", Guro Dan recognized that there was more to it than that. Why do some people from the Philippines even care? Probably not anymore than Americans would, if compatriots propagated to foreigners the image of a Cowboy or Baywatch culture. (Not that that is being done in the FMA, just some innaccuracies.) The concept of "Amor Propio" may also have something to do with it. The Rankless (or pretty rank) One LSPIII ------------------------------ From: "Dave Huang" Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 22:45:38 PDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Keating or Worden? RE: Kelly Worden Kelly Worden does not do Comtech, James Keating does as mentioned earlier. RE: James Keating: Other than Vunak's PFS, does anyone else know what Keating's background in Filipino arts are? In particular, who does he attribute his knifework to from the Filipino systems? The stuff I have seen is almost all Inosanto blend. As an aside, congrats to all of my friend Ramon Rubia's students and their performance at the San Ramon WEKAF qualifier. Dave _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "Ken Grubb" Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 23:09:25 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Kelly Worden There have been several questions about Kelly Worden. Here are 2 links which should prove useful. http://www.altinet.net/~karate/ikw.htm http://home.earthlink.net/~wordenk/index.htm Ken Grubb Bellevue, WA ------------------------------ From: "Ken Grubb" Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 23:15:15 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Big Three Seminar in Seattle Professor Presas (GM Modern Arnis), Professor Wally Jay (Small Circle Jujitsu) and Grandmaster George Dillman (Pressure Point Karate) will be in Bellevue (Seattle Metro Area) on September 19th (12 noon to 6PM). If you're in the area, or will be, and are interested in attending: http://www.arnisador.com/seminarfr.htm [Scroll to the bottom of the link.] Ken Grubb Bellevue, WA ------------------------------ From: Allen Sachetti Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 09:57:18 -0400 Subject: eskrima: REGARDING DATU Regarding "Datu" the word refers to the Warrior Chieften of the Tribe in the Philippines or Cebu. It is the purest Filipino term available for leader. As far as people using the title for the head of a paticular Martial Arts System, well it really does not matter what term they use to call their master. Tuhon, Datu or Suro or a rose by any other name. What's important is how GOOD that particular instructor or head of a system is, no matter what he calls himself. However the term Datu is a traditional Filipino Title used quite frequently throughout Filipino and Indonesian history. Perhaps one of the most well known Datu's DATU Lapu Lapu killed Magellean. 10 DATU'S from Borneo traveled to Negros to begin a large culture there. DATU Kalantiao ruled Panay with legendary justice and wisdom not uncommon to Solomon. The list goes on and on but one thing that you can be sure of is that the title Datu always meant a leader of sincere respect and worthyness. Furhtermore it was not a title bestowed lightly but to the contrary it had to be well earned. There is a lot of History available for the word. Allen Sachetti ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #323 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in directory pub/eskrima/digests. 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