From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #324 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Thurs, 5 Aug 1999 Vol 06 : Num 324 In this issue: eskrima: Giving The Title Of Datu eskrima: Datu eskrima: Titles & other stuff... eskrima: Re: James Keating eskrima: Re: AWSDA eskrima: Lapu Lapu eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #323 [none] Re: eskrima: Lapu Lapu eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Allen Sachetti Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 10:08:45 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Giving The Title Of Datu Just a word on giving the title of Datu, if you check your history you will find that almost every tribe had a Datu (Warrior Leader). This title was given BY THE PEOPLE of the tribe. It had to be first earned, in some cases it was inherited but even those Datu's eventually had to prove themselves. A Datu was not a monarch, if he did not do his job he could be removed and there are many cases of this. On the other hand when a Datu served his people well he was often remembered throughout history. We all remember Datu Lapu Lapu but how many of us can remember the name of the Datu who ruled the tribe across the bay from Datu Lapu Lapu? This Datu I speak of was the man who first met and entertained the Spainards. He had a ongoing feud with Datu Lapu Lapu and he told Magellean that he would give allegence to his King if he first destroyed Datu Lapu Lapu. Well it did'nt work out. Allen Sachetti ------------------------------ From: abanico-video-knuettel@t-online.de (Dieter Knüttel) Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 12:15:10 +0200 Subject: eskrima: Datu Hi, I have missed a few issues, so I can only now reply on the Datu thread. All Datus I know of have received their title from GM Remy Presas. Datu Kelly Worden (USA), Datu Shishir Inocalla (Canada) as far as I know also Datu Ric "Bong Sun" Jornales (USA) (I know nothing about him, just that he also shall be Filipino) and myself, Datu Dieter Knüttel (Germany). Out of some reason Professor Presas chose this title to give to very few Arnis practitioners. If you imagine how many students and blackbelts Professor Presas has taught over the last 25 years in the USA (it must be several 10 thousands) and there are only 4 Datus, one can see, that the is not giving this title away very easily. I don´t know for what reason he chose the title Datu and I am well aware, that the DATU in the Philippine society was a highly respected person in the muslim villages and that he was somewhere between the chieftain and the sultan. I know, that our Datu title has no relevance regarding the philippine society, but if we replace the "philippine society" with "Modern Arnis family", I think we could see what it can mean: A well respected person with some responisbility within the Modern Arnis system (family, group, association, use whatever fits). We in Germany at least treat this title with the meaning: "Leader of the Modern Arnis association in Germany and Europe". When I got my 6th Dan from the Professor he did not say : "This is the first time that I give a 6th Dan outside the USA and the Philippines", but he said: "This is the first time that I award a Datu outside der USA and the Philippines". He also pointed out, that it is important to him, that our members treat me respectfully and approach me with my title during the training. Our association decided to respect this wish, eventhough it was very unusual to me, not to be called with my first name during training. Even though I have to admit, that I am proud, that the Professor chose me to be one of the 4. But if he would have chosen another titel than Datu, it would be the same. Anyway, all I want to point out is, that one should respect the decision of the Professor to give the title to very few individuals, because this way he also shows respect towards this title, not to give it away easily. I have been approached by some Filipinos, that the title should only be awardes by the "maharlikas" (can anybody of the filipino members of the list tell me, who they were?) and there are no maharlikas today any more. I think, that meanig of words can change over the time and depending on the contents they are used in. That is why I can accept the title Datu (leader of te Modern Arnis in Europe), and not because I think I have a high status in the philippine sociey now. Best regards from Germany Datu Dieter Knüttel ABANICO Video Productions European Modern Arnis Representative E-Mail: abanico-video-knuettel@t-online.de Internet: http://www.dao.com/abanico/ ------------------------------ From: "Branwen Thomas" Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 12:28:57 -0230 Subject: eskrima: Titles & other stuff... this thread is fun... I think the most important title is "Teacher"and everything it implies. All the rest is trimming (with all due respect to actual cultural hierarchies). As others have pointed out, if you can learn something from someone, that's the important thing. Respect for your elders in an art, as well as your juniors is the main thing, and if I were learning from someone who got annoyed at me because I was unsure of the correct title to use, I'd probably leave. I will always show respect to those deserving of it, and if I don't know the correct title in their tradition, I'll use one from mine (that's fair, isn't it?) One of my instructors is ten years younger than me, but has accumulated so much knowledge that I am speechless and in awe of his abilities, and especially the fact that he ALSO knows how to impart what he has learned to his students in a comprehensible manner. You shouldn't judge a book by its cover, nor a teacher by the title. Regulating of MA schools - NO PLEASE. I don't think this is an issue yet in Canada, but I agree with many of the comments made by others (I got your back, Rocky! ;) If we are learning to protect ourselves physically, shouldn't we do our best to protect ourselves mentally, as well, by learning more about the people we look to for training? I'm old enough now that I don't need mommy OR government telling me what I can read, or who I can learn from. And if I make a mistake, or a bad choice, I should fix it myself or learn from that also, and not look around for someone to blame. Help is good, but having someone else do it for me is not help. 2c worth Roaring Girl (Sorry, Title out-of-stock:) * Purveyor Of Fine Books * Beater Of Bodhrans * Smiter Of The Wicked * * Owned By Angus, Most Elegant And Pleasing Of Cats * ------------------------------ From: Ted Truscott Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 09:45:27 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: James Keating The discussion about the term DATU actually crosses the one about James Keating: trained in FMA (someone thought his stuff looks like an Inosanto blend, I thought it looked like Remy Presas' work) who calls himself "Master At Arms" to recognize his focus on European styles of knife work and the bowie knife. Are there other European / English terms for weapons hyarchy that are not borrowed from academia or politics, ie, does a master at arms have a student at arms?? Ted Truscott "the fighting old man" ------------------------------ From: "Todd D. Ellner" Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 10:52:14 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Re: AWSDA TaoArt@aol.com sez: >8th Annual AWSDA Training Seminar >in Uniondale, NY (Long Island) from August 6 - 9, 1999 >Up to 32 intense hours of quality training with some of the world=92s leading >instructors. Instructors chosen for this years seminar include renowned >police defensive tactics instructors, firearms instructors and men and women >from diverse areas of expertise in self defense related topics; plus also >included is a ticket to the banquet and awards dinner (You can win some great >door prizes); plus a training bag filled with cool stuff; plus discount >certificates; plus for the first time ever at an AWSDA seminar there will be >ENVIRONMENTAL SIMULATION TRAINING, presented by Modern Warrior=AE; plus a free >training shirt; plus the seminar fee also entitles one to admission to the >Self Defense Expo, a vendor display of the latest in self defense training >and equipment. > >AWSDA - COMMITTED to making practical self defense training available for all >women. Folks, I didn't know if it was appropriate to mention the AWSDA convention/seminar here or I would have been beating that drum a long time back. If any of you can possibly make it to this or a future AWSDA seminar by all means do so. The instruction is varied and of the highest quality. There are people from all sorts of backgrounds. You learn stuff that martial arts classes just do not teach. Most of the people there are teachers or professionals in related fields (lawyers, counselors, victims advocates, physicians, firearms instructors, etc.). There is a tremendous amount of cross-fertilization from the police defensive tactics crowd. Most of all it's the people. Let's face it, as a hobby or profession the martial arts has a higher density of ass***es per square foot than your average proctology clinic. People keep chipping their egoes on the door as they try to walk through. AWSDA, in our experience, has almost none of that. The people are there out of a real interest in women's self defense and related issues, and the focus shows. We'd been teaching the stuff for several years, but every time we go to one of these we come away with things that change what or how we teach or at least a whole bunch of new perspectives. Anyone who thinks that martial arts experience qualifies him or her to teach WSD should come to one or more of these; it's not the same thing at all, and there isn't a better place to learn about the differences. I've gotta disagree with Tao Art on the "leading instructors" part. Sure, there are legends like Liz Kennedy, Phil Messina, Jim Cirillo, and Susan Baldwin. But they've also let yahoos like Tiel Jackson and Todd Ellner in, so how good could it be? :-) [We're doing a unit on teaching throwing for self defense - mostly aimed at teachers] Hope to see some of you there. I'll be the brick-shaped guy in the frog t-shirt. Todd ------------------------------ From: "Ken Grubb" Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 11:55:26 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Lapu Lapu Allen Sachetti wrote: >Perhaps one of the most well known Datu's DATU Lapu Lapu >killed Magellean. IIRC, Magellan wore armor and wielded a sword. Lapu Lapu was not armored and wielded "only a stick". On Lapu Lapu's title, was he a Datu or did he hold an even higher title? Ken Grubb Bellevue, WA ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 12:38:17 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #323 A Howl etc: Rocky wrote: > Ok guys I am posting this for everyone. For some strange reason I got a > dozen e-mails, thinking I was slamming the Crafty one, in my post, by > referring to him as being in trouble if there was a writing test. FOR > YOU NEWER GUYS!!! It has been a kind of running joke for a couple of > years. Crafty always picks on me for my spelling or grammar. What with > him being a Lawyer and some what of a brain child and all. But its all > in fun he knows I am just $*$* with as do I when ever he trashes my > grammar. The ironic thing is my top student is also a Lawyer, thank god > the two of them don't hang together, or I 'd real be in trouble. I have > never met the Craft Master, just talked a couple times, but his wife has > helped me tremendously, with my web page. And I pretty much support most > everything he does and always encourage people to train with him, and I > am sure he knows that. So before I get anymore mail one way or the other > get your facts straight. We have know (sic) problems , now that weird Ray guy! > now that's a different story, OOps I meant to think that last sentence > not write it :-)) > > Rocky Pasiwk And so I see it too. Rock only irked me once when I thought he was being disrespectful to Guro I as part of making a larger point. Hackles raised, we both lifted our legs on our respective fire hydrants and moved on. He's a funny guy, makes lots of sense most of the time, and as this post of his shows, apart from some unnecessary commas, is capable of a credible imitation of proper English. ;-). Woof, Crafty ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 12:51:56 -0700 Subject: [none] A Howl etc: On the subject of what happens when the regulatory urge slips its leash, Reason magazine (highly recommended BTW) reports: "Last year, the Alabama legislature decided to ban strip clubs. While it was at it, it barred the sale of items that stimulate the genitals. So if you want dildos, vibrators, ribbed condoms, and other such goodies, you'll have to go out of state." Letting these people regulate martial art is like giving a teenage boy the keys to a Porsche and a bottle of whiskey for his big date. Woof, Crafty ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 14:24:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: eskrima: Lapu Lapu > >Perhaps one of the most well known Datu's DATU Lapu Lapu > >killed Magellean. > > IIRC, Magellan wore armor and wielded a sword. Lapu Lapu was not armored > and wielded "only a stick". He wielded a kampilan, not a stick. > On Lapu Lapu's title, was he a Datu or did he hold an even higher title? Little is really known of Lapulapu. He lived, he killed Magellan, he died. That is about all we know, for sure. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 14:40:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #324 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.