From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #325 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Fri, 6 Aug 1999 Vol 06 : Num 325 In this issue: eskrima: Well you can call me !!! eskrima: Re: Regulation! eskrima: hip flexors eskrima: RE: when datu the datu that datu so well (hint: Cole Porter - I t hink : ~ ) eskrima: Titles eskrima: Datu this, datu that eskrima: Pre-historic titles, Lapulapu etc. eskrima: Re: D/FW area [none] eskrima: Great info ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rocky Pasiwk Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 19:32:08 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Well you can call me !!! To Datu or not to Datu, this is the question. First of all you must understand who and why an individual is giving you the title of Datu since now a days it is rarely achieved the way it used to be. Times change my friends, many many moons ago, even before Ray was born, the great Chinese masters where worshiped not just by their students but by many a peasants who sought out their wisdom on life death, superstitions, and maybe even the local Lotto! For one to reach the level of Sifu or Sijo ( sp ) it took years of constant dedication, no time for anything else. This was the same with the Sensie's the Guru, Maestros, Amo's Pendikars, those guys in the airports, you know Harry Rama's !! But today most of us live in the 20th century where families, jobs, bills, and taxes, burden us, as well as our students. As an instructor you can't get the kind of student that our fore fathers in the martial arts world had. People know longer come to us for wisdom and advise, they flop down the cash and want results. So it goes without saying that if as instructors our status in society as a whole has changed, that so shouldn't the meaning of our title's ?? Like I have said in the past I will call you what ever the hell you want, just don't demand it from me unless I choose to take lessons from you. I myself usually call higher ups, like Remy, Danny I. Ted Buot or anyone else, Master out of respect, when confronting them in a martial arts forum. But in the real world after I am totally comfortable them I will call them by their given name. Ex. Since Danny I. is not my instructor, at a martial arts event, I would probably call him Guru, since I am now aware of the fact that this is what he likes. If I were to meet him out side of a martial arts event, I would call him Mr. Inosanto, out of respect for his person and age not ability. After knowing him personally for a given time I would call him Danny, like I do Ted and Remy, which they don't mind because they respect me too. So if some one wants to be called Datu or bestow upon you the title of Datu, I say put on a party hat, and go with the flow. I think everyone knows that its just a title and doesn't mean anything now a days. Every group or village or nationality can have a different meaning for the same word, remember 20th century we are no longer confined to local villages. I personally hate the term Guru, it reminds me one some 60s freak, listening to the beatles and siting under a pyramid, chanting. Guys, just call me Rocky, girls call me ANYTIME!!! 2 years ago when Remy and I were starting to talk again, I pinned him down on the phone and said ok Remy so what's my rank now, since he has 4th 5th and 6th degree's here and their and even a 7th or 2, his reply was your what ever rank you wanna be!!! So what does this mean?? In the past Remy has called a few people Datu because they were doing their own thing ( art ) and now it would seem he may be using it in the context that Deiter explained, which is cool. Remember when the term President of the United states meant, strength, honesty, pride, and integrity, well I would venture to say that this is a title that has had a drastic change in its meaning in the last decade. A prime exaple of how things change. Hey maybe after the y2k stuff hits the fan, and out society falls apart, we will go back to the forming of clans, and have to fight daily for our survival, then the terms Datu, and Sifu and all that stuff will go back to meaning what it once did!! Hey one can only hope:-) Rocky " Comma Boy" Pasiwk ------------------------------ From: MisterNMT@aol.com Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 19:24:43 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Regulation! I will have to cease lurking long enough to respond to this post. Most of the points have already been covered in one way or another by the fine people subscribing to this list, but I feel the urge to provide my particular perspective on the issue. In the arts I practice and teach We train for three purposes: The first is to honor God! The second is to protect ourselves, our families, and our friends! The third is to develop ourselves as human beings! Please notice that nowhere in this list of purposes is there a mention of being a service providing business, or of being involved in business activities of any kind. Your post appears to come from a tautological assumption that We are all functioning as businessmen and that the martial arts are the commodity We are trading in. I have practiced and taught Martial Arts for the past thirty-five years, and practice from the perspective that they are an art form. They are creative skills that are developed and refined by the sweat and sometimes blood of ceaseless training. Martial means military. The purpose of the military in combat is to destroy or disable the enemy. I and those who train with me are involved in developing the art of destroying or disabling an enemy in a life and death struggle. This is an art form because it is a creative skill. One the human race has been involved in since the beginning of recorded history. How will You regulate my creativity? How will You legislate my skill and my ability to pass that skill to others? If my art were painting would You or some committee You approve of tell me what subjects I can paint and how I must paint it, or if I choose to teach will Your committee tell me what method I must use in order to instruct? I am not certain I would be approved of by the North Carolina legislation. I am equally certain that many of the most skilled Martial Artist I have trained with during my lifetime would not be approved of under the legislation as it is proposed. Legislation of this nature is never actually in the public interest. If You outlaw what I do You only make me an outlaw. In Your post You state that You know that such regulation does step on one of our most basic inalienable rights. Yet with that awareness You state that You do not see the problem with this bill. I am of the camp that believes that anything which threatens our most basic inalienable rights presents a direct threat to myself, my friends and my family. Please refer to aforementioned purpose number two!! Just my two cents worth, Jim Kali Silat of Griffin ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 17:27:36 -0700 Subject: eskrima: hip flexors A Howl etc: A bit late perhaps, but I would like to vigorously second Mik's comments on the importance of stretching the ilio-psoas and quads. Given the importance of the ilio and the psoas, it is utterly remarkable that most people and many athletes have never even heard of them, let alone know what they do and where they are. Because of the chair and the toilet in modern life in most people these muscles become both short and weak. This causes the pelvis to tilt forward even when the individual in question stands, which both causes the lower back to shorten and the viscera to pour forward against the abs, making them protrude and pulling the rib cage down, which tilts the neck forward so that the ears are in front of the shoulders instead of over them where they belong, which tightens the neck muscles, etc etc, a veritable Rube Goldberg muscular skeletal disaster. Ab routines tend to have the effect of peeing into the wind, the lower back hurts and overall there is a high susceptibility to injury. Until the ilio-psoas and the quads are stretched and the peak contraction of the butt muscle restored, progress will be difficult. As Mik notes, exercises to stretch the hip flexors are not well known. In addition to the exercises he suggested, I'd like to offer the following: *Work the peak contraction of the butt muscle. *Check out some of the yoga positions. Sphinx when done properly is quite effective even though it looks like nothing. Squeeze ankles and knees together and thrust pelvis into the floor by tightening butt and hamstring. If you know how to do it, draw into the perineum (sp?), if not, nevermind. And lengthen front of hip (NOT crunch lower back) by pulling isometrically with forearms on ground. These are the details that make a difference. Cobra looks like its more but for me I get more from Sphinx. Another, of which I forget the name, you lie on your belly and grab your ankles and pull so that your spine arches like a bow. Get qualified advice so you don't crunch your lower back. Similar effect is to lie on side and grab one ankle and arch. *Wai Kru: The pre-fight dance of KK and Muay Thai usually has a position in it that is like a lunge with rear knee down and while hands do certain movements the heel is pumped towards the butt. This business of heel towards butt is the peak contraction position of the hamstring (both joints worked by the muscle are involved) which triggers release mechanisms hardwired into the body for the opposing muscles-- which is exactly the mission. A subtle concept which can be applied elsewhere in the body. Woof, Crafty Dog ------------------------------ From: Henry Martinez Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 17:58:31 -0700 Subject: eskrima: RE: when datu the datu that datu so well (hint: Cole Porter - I t hink : ~ ) The following is just my opinion and not meant to insult anyone (repeat this line as often as needed to calm your self down : ~ ). It seems that every few years there's a new set of soon-to-be overused titles that people start using to replace the last set of overused titles, so that all of them become more and more meaningless as new titles are added. Sensei, Sifu, or Guro are about all we really need, and should be used only for the person who actually trains us from day to day, with eveyone else Mr. or Ms. And if their egos can't handle it, **ss on 'em, they've lost an important attribute, humility. Respect is in our hearts, not in a word. HM ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 19:34:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Titles It just seems that certain titles have a specific meaning to specific cultures. e.g. Kaiser, Pope, Prince of Wales, Senator, Bishop, Czar, Datu, Rajah, ... When we reuse one of these well known titles for something other than what they typically mean we are likely to encounter confusion. Unless, of course, you are a professional wrestler. :) Ray "Czar of the Cripplers" Terry rterry@best.com P.S. I now realize my earlier comments may have POed some. That was not my intention and I appolize. ------------------------------ From: Kilap@aol.com Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 23:26:44 EDT Subject: eskrima: Datu this, datu that From the _Studies in Moro History, Law, and Religion_ Copyright 1905 Najeeb=20 M. Saleeby ...Each Mindanao datu is assisted in the adminstration of justice by a judge=20 and vizier. The judge is called is Datu Kali. The word kali being derived=20 from the the Arabic word meaning "judge". The Datu Kali is the chief=20 pandita of the district and is supposed to be the best informed man of the=20 community. The pandita is the scholar who can read and write and perform th= e=20 functions of a priest. The vizier is called "wazir". he is a pandita, too,=20 and acts in a semijudical and clerical capacity. Mohammedan law being base= d=20 on the teachings of the Quran, the chief pandita of the district is naturall= y=20 regarded as the most competent expounder of the law and the best fitted=20 person in the community to act as judge. The wazir is a pandita, he should=20 be well informed and a wise man. Some datus are panditas and take all=20 matters into their own hands and delegate none of their offices or duties to=20 a judge or a vizier; but is is the exception not the rule. (end of snip.) Funny this book also has a reference to Djuru Pakal ..but it's differen= t=20 from what present day folks would think. Though the word are derived also=20 from an Arabic word for a type of sword, I need to re-read that. This boo= k=20 also contains copies of genealogy of Kabungsuwan and his coming to=20 Magindanao (Mindanao), or the conversion of Magindanao to Islam, Genealogy o= f=20 Bwayan (sic?), History of the Dumatus and the conversion of Mindanao to=20 Islam, Oldest copy of the genelaogy of Magindanao and the Iranun datus, =20 History and genealogy of Migindanao proper, Genealogy of Bagumbayan,=20 Ancestors of the datus of Mindinao, Sulu codes and more. Probably should b= e=20 saved in a museum or something ...probably not many copies of this=20 available.=20 Anyway if memory serves me correctly Mang is also "proper", as in not street=20 talk, Sundanese (West Java) for Uncle and is used as a term of respect for=20 elders. Go figure... Another 2=A2 I value certain MA's and it's or practitioner's as being of=20 certain caliber but as for outlandish claims .....well frankly they just bor= e=20 me. Take it for FWIW ;) As usual Rock had in me stitches along with LSP and the thing on C&W in a=20 Brooklyn accent is the garb from the grandparents time, etc. So we're all down on the MA regulation, good as I too agree on personal=20 responsibility most definitely and not more gov't. But how many have=20 "voiced" their dissention to this bills sponsor? What was that link (even i= f=20 we're outta state)? Also agree on Crafty's month old recommendation for "Saving Private Ryan" =20 and see the hell men endured (beach scene) for the freedom that most take fo= r=20 granted. =20 Regards, Maha Guru Besar Pendekar Pendita Maha Raja Sultan Mas Raden Datu ....NOT!, Travis just a player ;)=20 =20 ------------------------------ From: Luis Pellicer Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 12:46:57 +0800 Subject: eskrima: Pre-historic titles, Lapulapu etc. Since this thread seems to be going and going, and since precise definitions seem to be in order, here goes. First, all terms used will be Pre-historical ones. Languages change, ex. Sampal. Today that means to slap. In old tagalog it meant " to split a man in half" (Pedro de San Buenaventura, Vocabulario de lengua Tagala.1613) There is a wealth of knowledge out there, IN SPANISH. Most of the "indio" history was passed by word of mouth, we know what can happen to that. The Spanish chroniclers may have had a tainted point of view, but it WAS CONTEMPORARY. Most pre-history records are on the 'Bisaya' culture. Mainly due to the fact that that is where the Spanish first tried to stake thier claim. (Manila was not visited till 50 years after Magellans landing.) The partitioning of the PI into Luzon, Visayas and Mindanao was a Spanish concoction. Bisaya was used in reference to a sea faring culture which stretched from what is now southern Luzon to northern Mindanao.(In reference to what is now our National boundaries) Mindanao is a bastadization of the word Maguindanao, a chiefdom. The people who lived there at the time had no name for the island. DATU : Social Anthropologists refer to this title as "Chief" the head of a Chiefdom. The Spanish refered to them as "principales" (chiefs) This was a hereditary title, you had to be descendant of a Datu to be a Datu, but the Datu could have been your great great grandfather. This title was used from what is now known as Luzon to Mindanao.(Though other terminologies were sometimes used, such as Lakan and Gat) The Datu headed a Barangay, or properly a Balanghai. (pronounced Ba-la-ngai) This was literally a group of households which could number from a few, to over a hundred.(This word was originally used to refer to a type of boat.) The position was a socio-political one (and in times of war, they were the "Generals") but they were "leaders" who had "followers" on a personal level, they did not rule and own defined territories. Datus had loose alliances with other Datus, although there was no overlordship amongst themselves. What they did have, was a position which was called 'Pangulo' which loosely meant 'first among equals'.(Now that term is used for 'President') Autonomous Datus were called 'Kadatoan', they stood alone. The only way a non noble could head a barangay was to marry into a noble family and prove ones worth, but then he could only carry the title 'Sabali'. RAJA : Were basically Datus with a couple of differences. Datus who controled seaports which had foreign trade took the Malay-Sanskrit titles Raja, Batara or Sarripada. Because they controled the sea ports, this meant two things. 1. Due to the 'cash flow' generated, they could maintain larger populations in thier 'Chiefdoms'. 2. Thier wealth gave them (generally) higher stature than other Datus. This title was used pretty much through out the archiapelago. When the Spaniards arrived in Manila, it had three rulers. Raja Matanda, Raja Solaiman, and Lakandula.(they were all related) Note: These titles were not associated with any religions. Datus, Rajas etc. could either be Moslem or Pagan. SULTAN : Were rulers of a defined territory in what is now Mindanao. These territories had a central government. The Sultans were overlords, governing thier territories through the Datus and Rajas, and exacting tribute through them. (Some Bisaya nobility, though not directly under the territory of the Sultans still had to pay for 'protection' in the Cosa Nostra way!) Unlike the Datu and Raja titles, this position was carried down through DIRECT descendancy of the Royal bloodline. The leader was 'Sultan', a prince of the blood was 'Katchil', the crown prince was 'Raja Muda', 'Gugo' was Prime Minister, and 'Raja Laut' was 'Sea Lord'. (Can you see how this gets confusing?) The royal blood line of Sulu was related to the royal blood line of Borneo (intermarriages, etc. this is why they have the Sabah claim) although they were at odds with each other. Sultans or Borneo were overlords of the Datus of Mindoro.(right off Luzon) The Rajas of Manila were intermarried with the line of the Sultan of Brunei. The Sultanate of Sulu was founded by Abu Bakr, an arab sharif whos father in law was a Sumatran Prince. Confused? This title was one directly associated with Islam, Unlike Datu, Raja etc. LAPU LAPU : There is no historical evidence as to what title he carried, but it can be deduced. He was obviously a Datu and his Barangay was located on the small island of Mactan. (He was not "King of Mactan") In his attempt to control the region, Magellan forged 'pacts' with three Rajas. Awi of Butuan, Kolambu of Limasawa, and Humabon of Cebu. Magellan tried to force the overlordship of Humabon on the area,Lapu Lapu refused. (Did he refute the Spanish? It seemed like his gripe was in having his relative as overlord. His niece was married to Humabom.) Magellans threat to Lapu Lapu was to "Burn their land and the palm groves off which they support themselves." (Anon n.d.a. Um reteiro de circumnavegacao de Fernao Magahaes) This would indicate that Lapu Lapu had no port, but he and his barangay subsided off the coconut palms. Alak, or distilled coconut sap (though historically alak refers to anything distilled, booze, perfume etc.) was a major trading commodity in those days. Aside from this, a way to augment his barangays income was to raid out-going trade barges from Cebu, which WAS a major trading port. Lapu Lapu refused Humabons overlordship, so with the three Rajas, Magellan assembled an army of one thousand warriors headed by sixty of his men. This was not exactly an even fight, there were probably more warriors on the side of Humabon than PEOPLE in Lapu Lapus barangay. As accounted by a spanish friar, Magellan and his sixty men were to charge Lapu Lapus warriors, without the thousand backup. This was to show the 'Indios' how Spanish warriors fought! (We know what happened then!)This would indicate that Lapu Lapu did really not have THAT many warriors on his side, I'm sure Magellan had an ego, but he wasn't stupid. As accounted, Magellan had his helm knocked off three times, and suffered two slash wounds. One of the slash wounds was poisoned, as was common practice in those days. There is no evidence that Lapu Lapu did the Portugese leader in himself. Interestingly enough, despite the fact that the three Rajas seemed to have an overwhelming force, they left the battle at that. It didn't hurt that all three were Kinsmen to Lapu Lapu! As an after thought, during the next Spanish forray into Cebu, there was no evidence that the 'Indios' had any knowledge of Catholicism. Some of the statues of saints left over from the 'discovery' were found in households, thrown together with statues of the local 'Anitos'. Sounds like the whole deal was a set up by the kinsmen to me, though historically there is no reference to it. I'm going to ruffle a couple of feathers here, and I will deal with the topic in more detail in a later post, but basically a Bisaya warrior would never go into battle without three items. (Could be interesting to those who practice "Bisaya based Kali" arts.) 1. A slashing weapon - either a kalis (kris in Malay) or a Kampilan 2. A long stabbing weapon - Bankaw or the generalized term for spear, though there are many types of spears. 3. A short stabbing weapon - Usually a baladaw which is a style of dagger with a short, single edged blade. Nowhere have I read that sticks were prefered over blades(Sorry Guro Dan, but I still like the book) in fact, sticks are never mentioned at all. Burned tipped spears are mentioned, but were not considered essential. The long stabbing weapon was alway STEEL or IRON headed. The weapon considered most important among the three was the STEEL TIPPED SPEAR. Kind of throwsa monkey wrentch into what we do and what we call it. Kali is a derivative of Kalis, Kris, why name an entire art after a very revered, but not first and foremost weapon? I'll leave it at that for now. The Rankless One LSPIII ------------------------------ From: GuroJohn@aol.com Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 03:10:44 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: D/FW area Dear Jesse, I don't know of a whole lot of FMA players in the D/FW area. But then again I just moved here last year. I know of and have trained with a gentle man in Garland by the name of Anding DeLeon. He is an excellent practitioner of Modern Arnis and was a student of Professor Presas in the Philippines. I live in Plano and I teach on Saturday mornings at Faith United Methodist Church (A predominantly Pilipino church). I teach the Pambuan System of Arnis and Kuntaw. I only charge $5.00 per class and that goes to the church. If Plano in not to far for you please page me at 972-922-0293. Gumagalang (with respect), John Bain ------------------------------ From: Luis Pellicer Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 17:28:35 +0800 Subject: [none] I have been approached by some Filipinos, that the title should only be awardes by the "maharlikas" (can anybody of the filipino members of the list tell me, who they were?) and there are no maharlikas today any more. - ---------------------------------------------------------------- I'm feeling like a historian now. Now to answer your question. Maharlika refers to a class of pre-historic (as in pre-spanish) society. In tagalog (specifically) history it was the class of free men who supported the Maginoo, or nobles. It was used interchangably with Timawa. Datus came from the Maginoo class, not Maharlika. Timawa was the term used in Bisaya, this also meant the common free man OR slave men. The Bisaya had a secondary nobility class called the Tumao who were people born from the secondary wives of the noble class. Former President Marcos used the term "Maharlika" as the name of his imaginary guerilla unit, and said it was THE noble class. This has stuck, though is inaccurate. (Probably because Maharlika sounds more melodic than Maginoo) Anyway, the dead President had a way of rewriting history to suit his needs. The noble class still exists in the south, as Datus still exist. (My wifes family on her mothers side is of that line) Is it proper to use it? Proper is a relative term, but I would advise that in the unlikelyhood that you ever go to the southern Philippines, that you NOT use that title. Today the title is also used as an honorific one, given to people who have done some sort of exemplary service to filipino society. This is bestowed by the Philippine president and is the equivalent of an honorary knighthood, though I don't know of any recipients who actually use it. The term Datu has not changed in time, anywhere you go out here people KNOW what it means. It is probably only in Mindanao though, where someone using the title who is obviously not of the line, would get challenged. Challenged as in guns, or if they're feeling a little nasty, blades. LSPIII ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 07:14:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Great info Great info from Luis Pellicer. Thanks. Ray Terry rterry@best.com ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #325 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.