From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #328 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Mon, 9 Aug 1999 Vol 06 : Num 328 In this issue: eskrima: JKDC or JKD eskrima: the bill eskrima: Tuhon McGrath in Plymouth,MA eskrima: What is Italiano Style? eskrima: Announcements eskrima: reply: eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #325 eskrima: IESA School Visit eskrima: A mind forever wandering. [none] eskrima: FMA in Winnipeg? eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #327 eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cohen, Neil" Date: Sat, 7 Aug 1999 14:13:44 -0400 Subject: eskrima: JKDC or JKD Greetings all, I guess you can only lurk so long. While I am not in it long enough to speak, here's my take on the debate (BTW I am a the JKDC side of the fence.) JKD Concepts embodies what Bruce was reaching for before his death. He had made the transitions from Wing Chun, to Jun Fan Gung Fu, and so on, looking for the right combination of what works. Being as much of a philosopher as a martial artists he started to feel that doing things a set way will never work (Be like water). Well how do you teach someone something that don't believe in (from a philosophical direction.) He had reasoned that every different art or style, with a different body type, etc . changes what works in a different encounter. Now, that will disqualify any art (once formalized) .. but when you make it a philosophy with a set of principals that can apply to any situation, fight, debate or whatever, you can teach anybody to utilize what ever they have or can acquire, in an unique way that works. It's almost Zen, huh? Now, 26 years after his passing his concepts can be applied to situations he never even dreamed of, to arts yet invented and so on. Original JKD as I understand it tries to teach the art he had developed prior to going Zen. There is nothing wrong with that except one shouldn't try to claim it is what he wanted. We know from his writings that he was against labeling it a style or teaching it as such. Anyway. That is just my humble impression and not meant to be a statement of ultimate fact. Sincerely, Neil Cohen ------------------------------ From: "me the trash guy" Date: Sat, 7 Aug 1999 17:57:02 -0500 Subject: eskrima: the bill Greetings to all. First of all I would like to make it clear my intention with this post is not to bash, beat, or burn (flaming is what it is called I think). So please don't be offended. Second, and to the point, I would like to give a hearty cheer to all the responses I've read so far. It troubles me when I see government threatening people's (particularly mine!) freedoms. What's wrong with being able to choose whom you receive instruction from? It would seem that the attitude of "too bad, so sad" expressed by Kim, "...if anyone has a problem with meeting the requirements, then well...," should apply to me. If I am irresponsible enough to not check around about the guys rep then I have to live with the consequences. It seems America is having a chronic problem with personal responsibility (hmm, I just bought HOT coffee at this drive thru and spilled it on myself; maybe I can sue this establishment that is providing this service to the community). I'm responsible for the choices I make and the subsequent consequences. This, of course, begs the question about protecting our women and children (which at this time I would like to give Kim two, three, four cheers! -maybe just a whole bloomin chorus!). Again I think the responsibility lies with the individual. There are numerous laws currently in place to deal with individuals who would violate our family and friends. All that is left is for the enforcers of the laws to be notified. A new law will not protect them more. If this were true then would there be drugs in the hands of the public? would there be speeding? would there be crime? It is the responsibility of the individual to notify those enforcing the law, then something can be done. Next, what is the criteria of quality character? If the Ten Commandments is the standard then I don't think even an honest Christian would be up to par. Does it mean that if this committee deems an individual with a strong like for knives to be overly violent, thus being of poor character, he can't teach? Besides, who would want to learn knife fighting from someone who doesn't know knives. If the committee decides that combat training (or for the semantically inclined - self defense) is not legitimate (the student might hurt Joe Citizen, nevermind Joe Citizen was mugging the student), only tournament training is, then what? What happens when the politics of the martial arts world comes into play? When the master of an art who is on the committee, who incidentally was offended 20 years ago by your teacher, decides the art your teacher is teaching you is illegitimate, what then? Well, you get the gist of what I'm trying to say. It really concerns me when government attempts to take more control in the guise of providing security. And it REALLY concerns me when I see the public giving up freedom for security. The post about the new laws in Australia I think are pertinent here. What makes Americans so gullible, outright stupid, or arrogant to think that such "storm trooper" type things couldn't happen here. There's a story about WWII, it goes something like this: " When they came and got the mental patients I didn't say anything. It really doesn't concern me. When they came and got the Gypsies I did nothing. It wasn't my place, besides, there kind of a nuisance anyways. When they came and got the Jews next door I watched through my closed curtains. I said nothing. When they came and got me there wasn't anybody left to speak up for me." JZ ------------------------------ From: Taojen1@aol.com Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 07:39:17 EDT Subject: eskrima: Tuhon McGrath in Plymouth,MA << I've been informed that the seminar with Tuhon McGrath in Plymouth, MA tommorrow (Aug. 7th) is full so if you didn't pre-pay you're outta luck (which includes moi ..wadda pissah as they say in RI speak). Regards, Travis A good was had by all, although my right arm feels like wood. Tuhon stayed an extra hour and gave us more than we could digest. We'll be having him again in a larger location. Buddy Tripp Dragon Gate Internal Arts ------------------------------ From: pjm@buffnet.net Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 11:43:05 -0400 Subject: eskrima: What is Italiano Style? Would someone please tell me what Itliano style is, its probable origins, and some descriptions of the techniques. Even links to good resources on it on the web would be great. Thanks Phil "Rhino Style" ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 16:22:28 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Announcements A Howl of Greeting to All: Cindy has been on a rampage and the July, August, AND September techniques sequences are up. The invitations to the Fall Gathering of the Pack will be going out in the next few days and it will be posted on the website as well. Attention DBMAA members: There's new material on your website. Woof, Crafty Dog "Useless laws weaken the necessary laws." Montesquieu ------------------------------ From: SReiter000@aol.com Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 00:49:52 EDT Subject: eskrima: reply: two excelant Pekiti tirsia teacher's in the dfw area are tim wade: twaid@hotmail.com and omar hakeem: omar.b.hakim@ac.com - steve ------------------------------ From: "David Eke" Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 16:09:55 +1000 Subject: eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #325 Big Joe made the following comments >>Mr. Eke, >> I have a few questions for you about your opinion on the use of the >>title Datu. First off how is using the title of Datu in ones ranking system >>disrespectful and going against Filipino culture. I said "Still, it clearly shows a lack of true understanding of the history and culture of The Philippines." My personal view is that there are plenty of other more appropriate names available but call yourselves what you like. Maybe there are just too many GM's around so using "Datu" is a good marketing tool. Luis's post was great, very informative. I hope you keep posting some more on the history thread. I sometimes think that the "F" in FMA gets a bit ignored. ------------------------------ From: "Al \"Got This Fish On The Move\"" Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 07:17:43 -0400 Subject: eskrima: IESA School Visit About 12 days ago I along with our local Garimot Instructor and student (Dr. Mike Kobayashi and Alan DelMundo) had the pleasure of visiting the IESA school in San Francisco. There we met Guros Manalo, Albano, Benetua and Master Sultan Uddin and was introduced to and impressed by their basics of their system. As an added bonus, Master Uddin showed us some advanced techniques with Advanced Guro Bob Manalo. For those ED members that have seen the video clips with Master Uddin, they do not do him justice. In person, he is dynamite! Also, in the days since visiting the school I can not get over the display of hospitality and openness that we experienced while we were at the school. Maybe this is a west coast trait because back east most schools are very cold and protective (or scared) of showing something of consequence to complete strangers. Respectfully, Al Sardinas Student of Garimot System of Arnis ------------------------------ From: "Jon Howard" Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 09:46:33 +0100 Subject: eskrima: A mind forever wandering. Hi there. This might sound like a stupid question, but it's a thought that occurred to me a while back. Is it possible to "sharpen" a wooden knife to an edge that could actually cut something ? Obviously most any bit of wood could be sharpened to a "point" for thrusting etc, but what I'm specfically talking about is the edge - ie for cutting or slashing. I think maybe the denser woods (ironwood, oak) would be better, but would some form of special treatment be required before, during, after ? Just wondering... Jon... Hmm : If the stickman was still about he might have a take on this... ------------------------------ From: Luis Pellicer Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 17:57:13 +0800 Subject: [none] So many questions coming in, there seems to be alot of genuine interest on the history of the country behind the art. It'll take a while to be able to get back to everybody. I'd like everyone to know that I am NOT an expert on Philippine history, (a capitalist, industrialist pig by trade, at least according to my more liberal minded friends) but an Arnis practitioner who maybe has had more access to some information through circumstance.(living out here, understanding the language, not having self motivating financial interests etc. etc.) Here is some info on people maybe wanting a more "TRADITIONAL" method of signifying rank in the FMA. The Spanish called the people of the Bisaya sea faring culture "pintados" meaning painted.This was due to thier custom of adorning thier bodies with tatoos. Upon reaching "manhood", the first tatoos were placed at the ankles (Manhood meaning they either got thier first kill, or thier first woman. I wonder what route they prefered.) As they proved themselves in battle, more tatoos were allowed up thier legs until thier waist.(More women didn't count.) Only the most proven warriors were allowed tatoos on thier chest. The abdominal and back area were reserved for the great warriors. The final area of tatooed distinction was the face, this was reserved for the greatest warriors. Men who wore unearned tatoos were subject to ridicule and ostracized. (I wonder why they got them in the first place.) Too bad we couldn't do the same to all the self-promoted 50th. degree ultimate warriors out there. If you combine the traditional Bisaya warrior tattooing system with the traditional Bisaya male everyday wear, the loin cloth, it would make for some interesting audience reactions during demonstrations. I really want to get to the stick (or bahi, or whatever) as the primary weapon issue, and give some inputs, personal and academically historical. But duty calls and my secretaries are being a pain. Till later. The Rankless One LSPIII ------------------------------ From: Tim Lavoie Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 07:56:26 -0500 Subject: eskrima: FMA in Winnipeg? Hello! I was thinking of trying out FMA, and live in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada. My phone book lists one place, "Sikaran Arnis", on Arlington Street, but I do not know if there are any others. If anyone on the FMA list knows of any other places (or can tell me more about this one), I'd appreciate some insight. Oh yeah, I suppose I should say something about myself, too. I've been at Green Dragon Kung Fu for about a year, and have thoroughly enjoyed the classes and the people there. Some major changes are coming though, which coincide with my planned membership renewal in September. First, the beginner class is being separated from more advanced students, and I quite liked being able to work out with more advanced students. As well, the schedule changes are such that weekday evening beginner classes are more frequent, but limited to an hour each; I live across town, so I like to be able to make better use of my time than that. Anyway, some light reading of FMA did interest me, and this seems like as good a time as any to consider trying something different. Thanks! Tim Lavoie ------------------------------ From: "Robert Masson" Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 06:29:19 PDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #327 Rocky wrote: >Ok I know you have posted this stuff before but I had know real >interest at the time. But now I have to (sic ;-)) JKD guys who have >been >training under me for the last few months, and just a couple of >weeks ago >a guy started privates, who says he is a JKDC guy. They >both seem the same >to me, as far as ability and practicality, and >their explanations seem >kinda vague, so if Doc. or Marc, or some >would, I'd appreciate an >explanation. Howdy All! Well the summer is winding down a little and my work schedule is calming and I can actually take a moment or two and try and catch up on the Escrima Digest.. So I'll throw my two cents worth on this most controversial of subjects JKD vs. JKDC. Here is how it was explained to me from my JKDC instructor. Bruce Lee gave out 3 (or possibly 4) JKD Instructor certificates (Danny Inosanto, and Taki Kamira are the ones I remember specifically). After his death there was much discussion as to how to continue the Philosophy of JKD and it was agreed no-one would create any New JKD instructors out of respect to Bruce (Now obviously much of this is Heresay as I was not in on those discussions *grin* Again I am relating the story as I have come to understand it). BUT JKD was still being taught, and there were a bunch of people out there with Lee Jun Fan Gung Fu certifications out there, soooooo, some interpretations were made and suddenly there were more JKD instructors on the planet. My experience has been that people with JKDC certification usually are associated with the core group of original instructors that Bruce Lee himself promoted. That includes Danny Inosanto and Richard Bustillio (A note here, I am not sure if Richard Bustillio was part of the original group that Bruce promoted to Instructor Status. I DO know that Richard's Instructors us the term JKDC). What is it all worth? Other than picking a political side I dunno. JKD is a philosophy and as a result the true test of a person's skill in it is their ability to understand the principles and apply them. Whether they were originally taught those skills by Bruce Lee, or a Book, or a former student is not as important as the actuality. THe Genome vs. The Phenom. The instructor helps to define the potential, the Student actualizes the potential and in some cases exceeds that and takes things to the next level. So I guess the short answer to Rocky's question is "Lineage". My Thoughts! Hope everyone is having a great Summer! Rob Masson Boston, MA ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 06:51:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #328 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in directory pub/eskrima/digests. 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