From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #337 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Sat, 14 Aug 1999 Vol 06 : Num 337 In this issue: eskrima: Legal News Flash eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #336 eskrima: yet even more title stuff eskrima: PR-24 eskrima: FW: event eskrima: Titles(ugh),& breaking sticks eskrima: on Datuks Re: eskrima: rattan snapping in half eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Katz, Mary Lou" Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 16:49:47 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Legal News Flash Greetings! This just in: on August 11, 1999, the California Court of Appeal for the Fourth District held that a police officer who engages in martial arts training pursuant to a job requirement, assumes the risk of injury and may not bring suit against the martial arts studio if he is injured. (It's Pfau v. Kim's Hapkido, 1999 Daily Journal D.A.R. 8247, for those of you who care about stuff like that.) I love it when they show good sense like that! Regards, Mary Lou "Anything worth doing is worth doing to excess" ------------------------------ From: "Gary A. Hudgins" Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 23:08:50 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #336 eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com wrote: > I would agree with Crafty Dog here, and offer another group as an example of > this .... The Dog Brothers. They don't use titles, that I'm aware of. "Top > Dog", "Crafty Dog", etc are nick names, not titles. I have been reading the lines on titles- Datu - Sulton, etc. I have had many layoffs during my training years. College, marriage, young kids, etc. Once when I came back after a long layoff every one was "Master or Grand Master". It's funny, but this started after "Kung-Fu" the movie and the TV show had hit the airwaves. The grandest title I had ever heard until the 80's was "Mr". - "Sensei", "Sifu" and for one individual that developed Aikido --"O'Sensei". I never heard of Funikoshi being called "master". I never heard of Gogen "the Cat" Yamaguchi being called Master or any of a long line of old line 9th and 10th degree black belts. I do not remember Tatuso Shimabuku, the founder of the Isshinryu ever being referred to as master, at least not before the 80's. Let me say this. I have most of the Panther videos REAL CONTACT STICK FIGHTING Starring Eric Knaus (up through volume 4). After watching these tapes, I am in awe of the guys that participate. (Thank you for showing me some of what works and what doesn't. I have learned a lot without getting my head bashed in, but I realize it takes that realistic experience to really learn.) Back to my original point. Call it a nick name if you like, but I assume The Dog Brothers earn their nickname only after participating in a Gathering. I also assume that it is given after the others observe the characteristics of the fighter in action and name him based upon his method of fighting or on how well he fights, i.e.. Crafty Dog, Top Dog. I would be more proud of a nick name given by The Dog Brothers than a title bestowed by many instructors. Gary Hudgins No Rank - No Title ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 21:59:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: yet even more title stuff > I have had many layoffs during my training years. College, marriage, young kids, > etc. Once when I came back after a long layoff every one was "Master or Grand > Master". It's funny, but this started after "Kung-Fu" the movie and the TV show had > hit the airwaves. The grandest title I had ever heard until the 80's was "Mr". - > "Sensei", > "Sifu" and for one individual that developed Aikido --"O'Sensei". The Kung Fu TV show was in the early 70s. Grandmaster and Master were in common usage then (the early 70s). Shihan, Judan, KwanJangNim, etc, have been around for many decades. Yes?? Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Michael Koblic Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 21:53:11 -0700 Subject: eskrima: PR-24 I have been reading about the PR-24 baton which I take to be a high-tech tonfa. I have seldom seen it in action. The training manual states that the power delivered by the spinning techiques is greater than that delivered by a conventional baton. Although I have no argument with the basic physics (E = MV*V/2) I wonder if it applies here: firstly, although the angular velocity of the baton around the side-handle axis may be greater than that of the conventional baton, the radius of the rotation is only 24 inches so the linear velocity of the tip (which is the one that counts) is going to be less than a conventional billy club. I appreciate that there are confounding circumstances i.e. the arm movemnet itself, but still... Furthermore, it seems quite awkward to achieve all the angles that one can effortlessly achieve with a straight stick and I wondered about the tip control. I have played with the PR-24 in a shop but for obvious reasons did not put it through its paces. I have seen people fight with a tonfa v. sticks in the DB1 video and gained the impression that it was not a feared long or medium range weapon, but a major factor close up due to power concentration in the jabs. Can anyone who knows elaborate? Mike Koblic, Quesnel BC ------------------------------ From: "Ray Terry" Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 22:43:09 -0700 Subject: eskrima: FW: event FYI, forwarding... Ray Terry rterry@best.com - -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Greetings, > > I would like to inform you of an International event happening in > Sydney, Australia. It is the 2000 World Martial Arts Millennium Games. > It takes place on April 1&2, 2000 at the State Sports Center, Olympic > Park in Sydney. It is a large open tournament, open to all styles, > systems, all ages, all belt ranks, both male and female. Over 240 > divisions, including Point & continuous sparring, forms (Jap/Okin., > Korean, Chinese, Kenpo, Open/Musical) Weapons (Bladed, Wooden, > Open/Musical) Self Defense, Grappling (all forms), TKD Olympic > Style Sparring, Team competitions, over 10 Grand Championships and > more. We are inviting teams and competitors from all over the world > to participate in this exciting event. If you would like more info > on how you or your students can become a member, competitor or > coach of TEAM AMERICA, represent the United States and compete in > this event please send me your mailing address. > > Look forward to hearing from you. > > Yours in the Martial Spirit, > > Bruce Smith > Pres/World Organization of Martial Arts Athletes > Head Coach/TEAM AMERICA > 102 Potomac Ave. > Salisbury, Maryland 21804 > (410) 742-2094, FAX (410) 742-6720 > mailto:kenpo@shore.intercom.net ------------------------------ From: Luis Pellicer Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 14:50:19 +0800 Subject: eskrima: Titles(ugh),& breaking sticks Titles within the school hierarchy and witnin the FMA realm are definitely necessary. I notice though, that sometimes it is the students who require them more than some of the teachers, it gives them a sense of belonging and sets goals to shoot for. There is also a tendency for begginers to view an instructors ability based on the rank or title he carries, and it isn't until he gains more understanding into what he is doing, when the titles become irrelavent to the Art taught. During the tail end of the NARAFIL days, I had the opportunity to sit in some of the Grand Master Council meetings, ( Dragged in by Mang Ben Lema as his "status" or "prestige" student at the time.) and noticed how informal they all were with each other, and thier status within the FMA community. It was a matter of proven ability, whether they were called "Master", "GrandMaster" or whatever, it didn't change who they were or what they could do. I think this is pretty much in agreement with other thoughts in this thread. On the other hand, continously using the title OUTSIDE the FMA realm (and insisting it be used), oh well, I've seen it done. ("Title" and "Outside" meaning "The Great Supreme blah blah blah." to non Martial Artists.) This is just my opinion, but I find it kind of tacky. I personally just don't feel comfortable referring to myself as "Guro Luis Pellicer III 5th degree in LSAI, Certified Instructorships in etc. etc.". I wouldn't do it anymore than I would refer to myself as "MBA LSPIII, Director and top executive of six Corporations, three national business associations, featured in Asia Week etc. etc." (though I just did, oops) Sounds awfully pretentious and obnoxious, and despite the truth, like my ego is severely out of whack. Maybe I'M the one who is off, too traditional in thinking that the Martial Arts, FMA or otherwise, are supposed to instill humility as the practitioner progresses. (If the above paragraph rubbed some people wrong as far as personal references, my apologies. But it did strike the right cords, then.) Rattan WILL bend or break, depending on the thickness, strength of strike, and way it is dried or "cured". I used to routinely go through a set every week to two weeks (3/4 to 1 inch diameter) as they would either fray, split down the length, or double over. I personally only use the padded sticks to practice "Manipis" moves on the weapon hand, though I find using live sticks or blunt itaks on a hand protected by customized kendo gloves a little more to my liking. I'll be doing some cross referencing this weekend on Philippine weaponry. Initially, I can find no references to the stick (or sword, rattan or hardwood) as an academically recognized weapon. This DOESN'T mean they weren't used, as was pointed out in a previous post citing Pigafetta. (It's late, did I get the spelling right?) It may give some interesting ideas on how the Arts evolved into what we recognize today. I've also picked up an interesting but UNVERIFIED version of what actually happened in Mactan that is supposedly handed down by oral tradition by some Mactan families. It's pretty funny. LSPIII ------------------------------ From: lee yow ching Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 16:50:04 +0800 (MYT) Subject: eskrima: on Datuks Hi all, This message is in response to Peter Lee and John Chow's contribution to the dato' thread. 1st off, i concur with and confirm Peter and John's explanation of the 'dato' title in Malaysian society. i would just like to add that here in Malaysia, the Dato' title is mainly conferred upon senior govt. officials and established business tycoons/entrepeneurs who have contributed to the welfare and development of the nation. Heck! if bill gates is a Malaysian entrepeneur, he would've been conferred with the title and would be known as Dato' Bill Gates. to use dato', raja, sultan etc titles as southeast asian martial arts rankings would be as odd as a masters of western swordmanship awarding the titles, sir, duke, lord or king as recognition of ranking and skill. or to put it in other words, has anyone out there met any japanese or chinese martial arts experts with the bestowed title of 'Emperor [..fill in your name..]'? this is not meant as an insult to those FMA practitioners with datuk titles as i have a great deal of respect towards their skills and abilities and also towards their teachers who awarded the title. i am merely voicing my observation that the dato' title has never been used in this part of the world as a term denoting martial arts rank. regards and respect, Mel Penang, Malaysia. ------------------------------ From: "billlowery" Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 11:32:45 +0100 Subject: Re: eskrima: rattan snapping in half Hi Vincent, Yep, recently one of my students had a peeled, but heavily varnished, stick break cleanly in two. I'm not sure what type of rattan it was as I usually use unpeeled manau which has never napped in that way. He was going through Heaven 6, but not powerfully or even at great speed. I guess it was just the time for the stick to "go". But, yes it does happen Bill Lowery ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 08:04:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #337 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.