From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #355 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Thurs, 26 Aug 1999 Vol 06 : Num 355 In this issue: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #354 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #354 eskrima: America/Violence eskrima: Pekiti-Tirsia/DogBrothers in San Francisco eskrima: Re: Gaje in U.S.? eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #354 eskrima: The true meaning of the art... Re: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #354 eskrima: meaner eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SReiter000@aol.com Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:13:49 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #354 In a message dated 8/26/99 6:55:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: ray terry writes: << An honest and honorable person doesn't go around looking for reasons to fight to the death. But you and your 7 brothers back me into a corner and you're all in big trouble. That isn't a threat, just the mindset one must have to survive when the feces hits the oscillator. Yes? >> ray i think you have taken too many leaps here -- how do you make the jump from they will fight you if you insult them to "they look for reasons to kill you" - sounds like you have some personal reasons to hate the pekiti group that goes much deeper - steve ------------------------------ From: SReiter000@aol.com Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:25:22 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #354 In a message dated 8/26/99 6:55:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: ray terry wirtes> << But when it comes to viable cultures, cultures that make a contribution in a civilized nation, I know of none in which it is reasonable to kill a person for an insult. Should a 'Yo Mama is so fat that when she sits around the house she really sits around the house' result in someone's death? Not in my book. >> let me tell you of a few -- In France and England duels were constantly fought to the death over honor and chivalry - an insult always resulted in a duel to the death ( come on you've seen enough movies where the gauntlet is slapped across someone's face) -- or Viking culture where if a woman's honor is called into question here husband had to throw an ax and cut off her braids to prove her honor - if he missed she's guilty and dead - how about in south America (i believe Brazil) where it is legal to kill your wife if she embarrasses you in public -- are you really saying all these cultures haven't contributed to civilization - or are you just saying the Filipino's aren't civilized and contribute nothing - also perhaps you dot think there should be any retribution to an insult since you seem all to free to sling them -- Steve ------------------------------ From: "Mikal Keenan" Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:32:11 -0500 Subject: eskrima: America/Violence > American culture where it's acceptable to lie through your teeth and > insult everyone, so long as you don't start violence. I think that some people operate in this fashion because they're out of touch with how easily violence will befall them in response to their lies and insults. I have personally come very close to doing something that might cause a loss in freedom in response to someone "flipping the finger" at me in traffic/on the street, usually right after they did something crazy and I honked my horn. Just yesterday a young guy ran through traffic jaywalking and flipped the finger at me when I honked the horn. I stopped and followed him, he turned back I backed up ... he started to run I turned and followed. I went throguh the exact same scenario -WITH THE SAME GUY- about 2 years ago ... had him arrested for jaywalking. In the previous incident I screeched to a halt and jumped out of the car ... insulted after caring for the cretin's life by slowing my car and sounding the horn, like "Wake up dude, you're gonna get yourself killed." Red hot I confronted him and buddies only to hear him say "the pedestrian has the right of way." A lil'bit redder I was pleased to notice that we had gotten the attention of both a uniformed and a plain clothed police officer who chimed in "not if they're jaywalking." They arrested the guy, just in time. I might have snapped, the stuff may have hit the fan or what ... for what? Moral is, it ain't acceptable to lie through your teeth and insult everyone because often it is likely to cause violence (unless you're dealing with oversocialized conscientious forgivers!:-) Most people who freely insult others are out of touch with the violence that they may cause ... like our friend on the street (who learned nothing from his previous experience). If people think that it's OK to insult others they need to be aware that others are likely to return the favor but the insult may be to their physiology, not their feelings. I know this territory too well ... including how equipped and prepared I was to teach the insulter(s) a lesson. So, real moral is ... we should practice and encourage generalized respect. If I didn't respect that guy I might be in jail right now ... he didn't respect me and he might be somewhere else right now. My uncle told me to keep the piece under the driver's seat. There's plenty of violence in America and examining my own experience and that related by colleagues much of it is related to real or perceived insults. One of the most common, and one that can get somebody popped, is the finger-flipping that occurs more frequently in traffic these days ... performed by people who do stupid things in traffic which cause others to have to accomodate their poor driving habits. I don't like being right sometimes, but if it hasn't happened already I bet we'll hear of somebody experiencing a quick and violent death for flipping someone else le finger. Honesty: I can look at my own motivations and see the potential. This generation takes too many things too casually with less regard for the payback. My own son at 26 has recently informed me of how much more aware he is of the potential effects of his actions after training with me (not just fight "stuff"). I can't understand how some people can be out of touch with one of the most widely realized facts of life said in many ways, two of which are "What goes around comes around" and as stated by one of my holyman-type teachers "If it's OK for you to do something to someone, it's OK for anyone to do the same thing to you." OK, now I shutting up ... sorry for all the noise ... and yes I've had some caffeine dis mo'nin' ... they brew the straight stuff here at work and I drink it black (only 1 cup), whewie I ain't used to this stuff!!!:-) Gotsta practice what I preach (stay away from the cafe unless I'm gonna go slam'n'jam for awhile). Be well, Mik ------------------------------ From: Loki Jorgenson Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 07:55:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Pekiti-Tirsia/DogBrothers in San Francisco For anyone interested in Pekiti-Tirsia, Dog Brothers or silat... I will be moving to the San Francisco (North Beach) area from mid-September to until 'Tmas of this year. I will be working in Menlo Park. As of yet I don't have any specific plans for teaching. However, anyone interested can contact me at this e-mail address . I'm open to being hosted for classes or seminars, exchanging information, or whatever. - -- 'gards, /\ Pekiti-Tirsia kali / \ silat Jati Wisesa Loki Jorgenson < MANOyBASTON Martial Arts > / __ \ Dog Brothers MA loki@pekiti-tirsia.org (604) 254-0240 / _L \ Majapahit Empire www.pekiti-tirsia.org/ManoBaston/ /________\ (Inosanto-IMAIA) ------------------------------ From: "Dave Huang" Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:25:05 PDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Gaje in U.S.? This Dog Eaters sounds interesting. Is GM Gaje coming back to the U.S. for any seminars? Is Dog Eaters an elite part of Pekiti Tersia or is Pekiti Tersia now called Dog Eaters? Dave _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "raleigh adams" Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:56:58 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #354 >Subject: eskrima: Portland Eskrima >thanks to all my MA brothers,for the info on portland instructors,,,Namaste,, ......Deputy Raleigh Adams>> > >where can i get tatami mats? I saw them at a Japanese bedding store in the lower level of Japan Town in SF...I also purchased a beautiful hand made Duvet cover for our Futon very inexpensively....all black with Kanji all over it,,,,I can try and get some more info,,ill need to dig out a receipt etc,,,if you wish,,,Deputy Raleigh Adams I get ------------------------------ From: "botoman" Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:55:12 -0800 Subject: eskrima: The true meaning of the art... On the thread about the Dog Eaters, insults, challenges, exemplary lives... From all that I've read and heard, and from all the discussions I've had with people, we can't forget that the art was meant for combat. The arts were used against other tribes, other oppressing nations/peoples, against other families for whatever reason, even if it were just an insult. If you look at the Muslim Pilipinos, they still hold true to the way the art was meant to be. Isn't it true that Tatang Illustrisimo beheaded the shopkeeper for insulting him, or something along that line? It was also stated at Ilokanos would pick up a bolo at the slightest hint of an insult towards their family's name. If someone came to you wanting to "play" or "try" what skills you had, didn't that mean that it was a duel to the death? "Play" and "try" are kind words for such an extreme end. Personally, it may seem barbaric to stand up for yourself and be ready to make the ultimate sacrifice for honor and pride because of an insult. But, as stated before, it's a cultural difference. While the old way is to be up-front and direct, others cultures beat around the bush and nail you when you're not looking. Just my take on this. b-man +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | The coolest site for free home pages, email, chat, e-cards, movie info.. | | http://www.goplay.com - it's time to Go Play! | +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:49:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #354 > << An honest and honorable person doesn't go around looking for reasons to > fight to the death. But you and your 7 brothers back me into a corner > and you're all in big trouble. That isn't a threat, just the mindset one > must have to survive when the feces hits the oscillator. Yes? >> > > ray i think you have taken too many leaps here -- how do you make the jump > from they will fight you if you insult them to "they look for reasons to kill > you" - sounds like you have some personal reasons to hate the pekiti group > that goes much deeper - Just quoting you. You said every insult is a challenge and every challenge is to the death. Every insult??? As for me having a personal reason to hate the PT group?!? Nothing could be further from the truth. Tuhon Bill, do you think I hate or even slightly dislike the PT group? Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:56:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: meaner > let me tell you of a few -- In France and England duels were constantly > fought to the death over honor and chivalry - an insult always resulted in a > duel to the death ( come on you've seen enough movies where the gauntlet is > slapped across someone's face) -- or Viking culture where if a woman's honor > is called into question here husband had to throw an ax and cut off her > braids to prove her honor - if he missed she's guilty and dead - how about in > south America (i believe Brazil) where it is legal to kill your wife if she > embarrasses you in public -- are you really saying all these cultures haven't > contributed to civilization - or are you just saying the Filipino's aren't > civilized and contribute nothing - also perhaps you dot think there should be > any retribution to an insult since you seem all to free to sling them -- The movies have duels to the death. Actually most duels were to first blood. And even those cultures died out. Also, remember that most 'death matches' in the RP were not. Look at how many challenge matches Cacoy Canete fought in defending the Doce Pares group. At 80+, to my knowledge he as still not killed someone in a 'duel', but I also don't believe he ever lost a challenge or a fight. Someone else mentioned 'playing' and 'working out'. That typically meant fight, but not to the death. IMHO that was added later in the sense of Crafty's infamous line, "the older I get, the meaner I was". Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:38:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #355 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.