From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #356 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Thurs, 26 Aug 1999 Vol 06 : Num 356 In this issue: eskrima: Re: Dog eaters, duels, et al eskrima: Re: Dog Eaters and "exemplary" behavior eskrima: Re: Portland Eskrima eskrima: Complimets Re: eskrima: Re: Dog eaters, duels, et al eskrima: 1999 East Coast Jun Fan JKD Conference in NYC eskrima: system/list down the weekend eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. 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Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Kinnan Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:59:56 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Re: Dog eaters, duels, et al At 06:58 AM 8/26/99 -0700, you wrote: >From: Ray Terry >Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 16:34:51 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: Re: eskrima: Re: Dog Eaters, and "exemplary" behavior > >>>> harder from there - they also have a code of conduct that each member is >>>> supposed to live by - they are to live exemplarty lifes -- i'll give you one >>>> example of the creedo - every insult is a challenge - and every challenge is >>>> to the death - these are not mere words - they live by this -- >>> >>> This is living an exemplary life? Umm... >> >> Exemplary doesn't imply any specific moral or ethical base, just shows >> that the behavior is supposed to act as a model or example for others. >> Not to mention the fact that different cultures and peoples have >> different concepts of what's "right" and what's "wrong". The Dog Eaters >> seem to prize honesty and honor over peace, different from popular > >Granted there are various cultures,,, gang culturers, prison cultures, etc. >But when it comes to viable cultures, cultures that make a contribution >in a civilized nation, I know of none in which it is reasonable to kill >a person for an insult. Should a 'Yo Mama is so fat that when she sits around >the house she really sits around the house' result in someones death? Not >in my book. > >An honest and honorable person doesn't go around looking for reasons to >fight to the death. But you and your 7 brothers back me into a corner >and you're all in big trouble. That isn't a threat, just the mindset one >must have to survive when the feces hits the oscillator. Yes? > >> American culture where it's acceptable to lie through your teeth and >> insult everyone, so long as you don't start violence. > >That is -popular- in America? Not from my experience. > >Ray Terry >raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com This is well and good, yet it is just an opinion offered as a fact. For instance, people in western europe continued dueling in a ritualized context, most often to some form of injury but occasionally to the death, well into the 19th century. Of course, you could even take gang warfare as a modern example of this sentiment, but you want to keep it civilized. I could be the ultra-anal anthropologist and say there isn't a clear definition of civilization, but considering that I know what you mean I'll work within that context. As for men who have contributed to western civilization who have been involved in dueling to protect something as 'petty' in the modern day as honor, let's try Alexander Hamilton...or what about Cyrano de Bergerac? (the real one, not the character in the play)...Alexander Dumas? (great life, would make an incredible movie -- he had a dueling rivalry with a musician which was downright epic)... Now there's three examples and that's right off the top of my head with about 10 seconds of thought. Fact is, nearly everyone in their time who had something to say (worthwhile or not) were also raised in a culture where you might have to back it up if you needed to. The very fact that while their contemporaries may have mourned the loss of a great life but didn't criticize the duel itself indicates that, for a long portion of western civilization, the duel was a perfectly acceptable, even honorable, way to defend your name and reputation which went hand in hand with one's ability to contribute to civilization. So, ultimately, do I think that killing because of an insult is right? No. Absolutely not, because among many many other reasons, it allows a skilled bully to perceive 'insult' wherever he goes, thus always getting his way. However, on the other hand, if one can be sent to jail and have one's life ruined because one physically restrained or discouraged someone acting in a blatantly offensive, bullying, or insulting manner -- well I think that's just downright silly. In fact, I think it creates a tension in society where people don't act when action is needed for fear of the repercussions, and people who are willing to take complete advantage of the current legal situation can hurt, insult, offend, or bully anyone they want without fear. No, I'm not saying kill 'em...if you kill 'em they won't learn nothin'. But if someone calls your wife or girlfriend a f---ing slut and you can't do a damn thing about it (legally) there is far more damage to society than is immediately apparent. ------------------------------ From: Robbie Trinidad Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 01:23:05 +0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: Dog Eaters and "exemplary" behavior Hello, I don't get to read the E-D often so back issues tend to pile up in my mail box. Sometime ago someone inquired about the Dog Eaters over at the peak-l list and asked if they're for real. I'm still looking into that. > > From: Ray Terry > Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 16:34:51 -0700 (PDT) > Subject: Re: eskrima: Re: Dog Eaters, and "exemplary" behavior > > >>> harder from there - they also have a code of conduct that each member is > >>> supposed to live by - they are to live exemplarty lifes -- i'll give you > >>> one example of the creedo - every insult is a challenge - and every > >>> challenge is to the death - these are not mere words - they live by this - -- > >> > >> This is living an exemplary life? Umm... > > > > Exemplary doesn't imply any specific moral or ethical base, just shows > > that the behavior is supposed to act as a model or example for others. The type of behavior mentioned in the example above is *NOT* an example of exemplary Filipino behavior. Any Filipino acting in the aformentioned manner is considered to be a thug or goon, someone who is either drunk or high on drugs, or a "basag-ulo" itching for a fight. > > Not to mention the fact that different cultures and peoples have > > different concepts of what's "right" and what's "wrong". The Dog Eaters > > seem to prize honesty and honor over peace, different from popular Eh? In 1986, we had a bloodless revolution. Anybody remember EDSA, People Power? If the Dog Eaters value honesty and honor above peace and life, thenthey are in the minority. As a race, Filipinos are notoriously known to be slow to anger. We've been known to take a lot of abuse before even speaking up. It's the explanation given to more than 300 years of spanish colonial rule and decades of Marcos dictatorship. Filipinos, like some other Asians, will try to avoid conflict and confrontation whenever possible. This can be seen in our language where there is no accurate translation for the word "No". "Hindi" is closer to "not" and "huwag" means "don't", but there's no word that has the finality of "No". > Granted there are various cultures,,, gang culturers, prison cultures, etc. > But when it comes to viable cultures, cultures that make a contribution > in a civilized nation, I know of none in which it is reasonable to kill > a person for an insult. Well said Ray. Even stories about Japanese samurai cutting people in half over perceived insults are questionable. > Should a 'Yo Mama is so fat that when she sits around > the house she really sits around the house' result in someones death? Not > in my book. Granted that people have killed other people in arguments over petty things like professional basketball games, the constitution issue, etc., but most of those involved were drunk at the time. > An honest and honorable person doesn't go around looking for reasons to > fight to the death. Martial artists don't go around looking for deathmatches. Here are excerpts from "Karate-Do: My Way of Life", the autobiography of Gichin Funakoshi. He talks about Karate, but it also applies to any martial art. "Never forget the old saying that a strong wind may destroy a sturdy tree but the willow bows, and the wind passes through. The great virtues of karate are prudence and humility. "That is why I teach my students always be alert but never go on the offensive with their karate skills.... Some of the younger ones, I confess, disagree with me: they tell me that they believe karate may fairly be used whenever circumstances make it absolutely necessary. "I try to point out that this is a total misconception of the true meaning of karate, for once karate enters, the issue becomes a matter of life or death. And how can we allow ourselves to engage in a life and death confrontation often in our few years on earth? "...To illustrate my point, I give the example of a young man... who one day decided to try his kick on [a] dog... The young man's kick failed and he was himself seriously bitten by the dog. So I say that those who, having trained in karate, think they must put their skills to use pervert the meaning of the art." Regards - -- [=======================================================================] [ Roberto B. Trinidad | E-mail: deadlock@mozcom.com ] [ CEO - World Domination NetCorp. | http://www2.mozcom.com/~deadlock/ _ ] [ Freelance 3D Graphics Animator | Quezon City, Philippines _ // ] [ and Desktop Videographer | Member: Team AMIGA \X/ ] [-----------------------------------------------------------------------] [ "The Internet is a fad." -- Bill Gates in 1993 -- ] [=======================================================================] ------------------------------ From: "Todd D. Ellner" Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 12:26:59 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Re: Portland Eskrima John Daniels, Leonard Trigg, and the people at NW Fighting Arts are all excellent teachers. Guro Daniels enjoys a warm working relation with Al Dacascos and can be contacted through the Dacascos Academy of Kung Fu. NWFA is in the Yellow Pages. Sifu Trigg can be difficult to get a hold of. ------------------------------ From: "Cory Eicher" Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 15:14:24 CDT Subject: eskrima: Complimets I'd just like to mention that last week, when I was visiting my parents, I had the priviledge of working out with a pair guys named Jim Kelly and Shawn Owens. Both of them were incredibly respectful and considerate in allowing me to work out with them on such short notice, and I simply wanted to share how impressed I was with both of these gentlemen. Cory Eicher ========================================= Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups. _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 13:53:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: eskrima: Re: Dog eaters, duels, et al > This is well and good, yet it is just an opinion offered as a fact. No, not offered as fact. Just my opinion... Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "Don Edwards" Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 15:37:54 PDT Subject: eskrima: 1999 East Coast Jun Fan JKD Conference in NYC The first East Coast Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do Conference (approved by the JFJKD Nucleus) is being held in NYC at the Chelsea Piers Sports Complex ( Field House) October 22nd through the 24th. The instructors will be Sifu Richard Bustillo, Sifu Ted Wong and Sifu Chris Kent. Visit www.geocities.com/Eureka/2968 for online information and registration form, or email Eskrima@hotmail.com for info. You can also call Integrated Martial Arts in Livingston NJ (973 422-1500) for information. Special pre-registration price date is Sept 15th. Thanks Don Edwards _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 16:52:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: system/list down the weekend FYI... My system and therefore the lists will be down this coming weekend, August 28-29. Ray Terry rterry@best.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 16:58:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #356 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in directory pub/eskrima/digests. 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