From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #378 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Wed, 8 Sept 1999 Vol 06 : Num 378 In this issue: eskrima: Pekiti-Tirsia seminar & Question eskrima: toilet training eskrima: No worries eskrima: Re: Beware of the effete knifer eskrima: Re: Beware of the effete knifer Re: eskrima: Pekiti-Tirsia seminar & Question eskrima: Use of force policies eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #376 eskrima: Culture and confrontation eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "BILL MCGRATH" Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 23:28:47 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Pekiti-Tirsia seminar & Question There will be a two day Pekiti-Tirsia seminar conducted by yours truly on Sat. and Sun. Sept. 11th and 12th. Location: Musical Theatre Works 440 Lafayette St. Manhattan, N.Y. (between Aston Place and 4th St). Time: 10 AM to 5 PM with a one hour lunch break. Subject: 144 Strikes of the Abcedario de Mano (comprised of 12 sets of 12 strikes using various weapons of the body such as fist, elbows, kicks etc). I will also show the knife applications of the empty hand strikes. Cost: $55 per day to PTI members, $65 per day to non-members. Special invite to list members...If you are a members of either Eskrima or Pekiti-Tirsia digests I will give you the PTI member price (just tell us you are a list member when you register). I really enjoyed all the answers to my question on weapon priorities, so here's another question for the list. I have had a few occasions where I had to train someone in a very short amount of time. The night before the '83 tournament in Texas one of the guys asked me to work with him for an hour on his single stick technique. With so little time to work, I gave him two strikes and some footwork and drilled him on the pattern for an hour. The next day he won his weight division. Also in the early 80's I used to start a hand vs. knife seminar at a school I hadn't been to before by taking a female white belt, giving her a 5 minute knife lesson and then have one of the male black belts try to disarm her. Each and every time I did this the white belt would carved the black belt up. My question is; if you had only a short time to work with someone, what would you show them? Let's make things really tough and say that you had only one hour to train them. Lets say you were asked to do this with five different young and physically fit guys who were going off to war. In the universe this question lives in each of the five would be armed with one of the five weapon categories classically taught in many FMA's. Which specific techniques would you teach them in each weapon? For example, I might teach the five guys the following: Single stick/sword: Double force (left hand re-enforces right wrist) horizontal and diagonal strikes. Keeping the strikes simple would allow me time to show how to vary the timing of the attacks to create openings quickly. I would show how to convert an uppercut into an umbrella. I would teach just one high forehand thrust to the face and just one forehand punyo combined with a grab. Double stick/sword: Fluid Attacks. This is where you are in a basic chamber and the bottom hand hits first in a backhand, then the top hand delivers a powerful forehand. It is like a boxer's jab-cross combination. Sword and dagger. After teaching basic forehand and backhand horizontals and diagonals with the sword, I would have the student hold the dagger in icepick grip (less likely to be lost during the messiness of combat) and show him one basic eyejab and one basic cut/disarm with the dagger hand. Knife: I would first ask if he was going to carry a large fighting knife or a small folder. If a large fighter, I would have him hold it in hammer or fencer's grip (depending on the handle shape and the weight of the blade) and the small folder in icepick grip. In each case I would spend 5 minutes going over the best targets for the grip being used. I would divide our time between 3 or 4 basic attacks per grip (emphasis on slashing with the big knife and stabbing with the small) and the basic rudiments of knife tapping while holding a knife. Hands: Elbows, knees and one neck break or choke from the front and one from the rear. With all five I would teach the same footwork. An open diamond pattern (this would give them both foreword and reverse triangles) and sidestepping. Now tell us how you would do it. Regards, Tuhon Bill McGrath ------------------------------ From: "C. Herrman" Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 08:33:00 -0400 Subject: eskrima: toilet training Hello, >A couple of years ago I read a magazine article in Terry O'Neils Fighting >Arts in the UK that concerned the martial way of going to the toilet. There is an amusing anecdote about this in "Autumn Lightning, The Education of an American Samurai" by Dave Lowry. An excellent book for anyone interested in Japanese martial history and the student/teacher dynamic. Good for a rainy afternoon! Take Care, Chris H. student: Executive Edge Martial Development - Boston, MA ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 07:14:27 -0700 Subject: eskrima: No worries A Howl etc: Haru wrote: > I hope that I have not offended you Crafty. , , , I apologize if I misunderstood your > point. Actually, I think you still misunderstand ;-) As for offending, those who have been on this List a while know that I tend to be a bit curt on this and related subjects, , , no worries. Crafty ------------------------------ From: "Joshua Hutchinson" Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 09:09:15 PDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Beware of the effete knifer Mik- Good post. I wholeheartedly agree that one should never judge a book by its cover. I've got a buddy who's one of the nicest people I've ever met. This guy is nothing but smiles. He didn't tell me until a couple of years ago that he ran around in a gang for a good 10 years or so. He said he used to shank guys at the drop of a hat. Pretty crazy, eh? Mabuhay ang Eskrima! Fry Bread ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com ------------------------------ From: "Joshua Hutchinson" Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 09:09:25 PDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Beware of the effete knifer Mik- Good post. I wholeheartedly agree that one should never judge a book by it cover. I've got a buddy who's one of the nicest people I've ever met. This guy is nothing but smiles. He didn't tell me until a couple of years ago that he ran around in a gang for a good 10 years or so. He said he used to shank guys at the drop of a hat. Pretty crazy, eh? Mabuhay ang Eskrima! Fry Bread ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 09:39:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: eskrima: Pekiti-Tirsia seminar & Question > Knife: I would first ask if he was going to carry a large fighting > knife or a small folder. If a large fighter, I would have him hold it > in hammer or fencer's grip (depending on the handle shape and the > weight of the blade) and the small folder in icepick grip. In each > case I would spend 5 minutes going over the best targets for the grip > being used. I would divide our time between 3 or 4 basic attacks per > grip (emphasis on slashing with the big knife and stabbing with the > small) and the basic rudiments of knife tapping while holding a knife. Tuhon Bill, Why do you recommend an earth grip for a folder vs. a heaven grip for a larger fixed blade? Does is have to do with slashing vs. stabbing attacks? Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "Joe & Doro Hironaka" Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 12:05:56 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Use of force policies The following is an excerpt from the US Border Patrol Use of Nondeadly Force Policy. My question is, are other agencies policies as restricting? My main concern is for the prohibition of the choke holds and strikes to the solar plexus and groin. These are all tools needed to end a confrontation quickly. IMHO I think that omitting these techniques prolongs the confrontation and the possibility of either the officer or suspect getting more seriously injured increases. To add insult to injury, during our training for the ASP we were instructed not to strike the joints (i.e.. knees and elbows). The main target emphasized was the common peronial, but this is a hard nerve strike to activate with a stick. It needs a tool more like a knee to make it work. E. Nondeadly Force Prohibited Acts and Techniques; The following acts and techniques are prohibited when using nondeadly force: 1. Choke holds, carotid control holds, and other neck restraints 2. Use of baton to apply choke or "come along" holds to the neck area; and 3. Intentional strikes with a baton to the head, the groin, the solar plexus, the neck, the kidneys, or the spinal column Joe Hironaka ------------------------------ From: Terry Tippie Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 12:42:16 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #376 >From: Patrick Davies >Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 11:02:19 +0100 >Subject: eskrima: Tom Meadows & GM Cacoy book > > Relating to this old post, did the book ever get made? >Clearing my mail box! >pat >From: "Marc \"Crafty Dog\"Denny" < >Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 22:08:36 -0700 >Subject: eskrima: Re: Khukris, & GM Cacoy > >A Howl etc: >While in San Luis Obispo, we hung out with Tom Meadows, snip >Wally Jay has been quoted as saying that Cacoy's Jiu jitsu is good, but his >judo is very good. As a student of both I can comment that Wally Jay was very impressed with Mano Cacoy's judo. While I don't remember Professor Jay commenting specifically on Mano Cacoy's jujutsu I do remember Professor Jay saying the following at a 1986 Eskrima demonstration in Stockton: "He's good. You can tell he's [Mano Cacoy] has been doing judo for a long time. Very smooth. [Professor Jay shadow boxed a Tayatoshi in the air and smiled.] Professor Jay had driven from his home in Alameda specifically to see Mano Cacoy, and I got the feeling that he went home satisfied. >With this thought in mind, it was time to take another >look at what GM Cacoy does. Most of my jujutsu training had been with Wally Jay, and so some of Mano Cacoy's large circle-based Kodokan jujutsu struck me as having, well, REALLY big circles. I asked Mano Cacoy about this and got an interesting response. Mano Cacoy indicated that, yes, he was familiar with small-circle jujutsu but maintained, "Large circle jujutsu has better leverage for weapons disarming." It took me a while before I realized how Mano Cacoy was using the large circle. He would elongate the circle in order to bait a trap and draw a response from his victim. (I prefer to avoid "partner" or "opponent" when referring to sparring with Mano Cacoy. It seems more appropriate to refer to myself as a "striking & throwing bag".) Once the trap had sprung you would find yourself looking up at the ceiling with a stick resting on the bridge of your nose and a hysterically laughing 80 year old man holding onto the other end. "Ha ha ha! You are learning the Christmas spirit...it is better to GIVE than to RECEIVE!" At any rate, the more I got into the weapons disarming and throwing part of Eskrido the more I realized that his use of circular motion while disarming & throwing was really quite sophisticated. He had developed his sensitiity "contact reflexes" to a point where he was thinking seven to ten steps ahead of your counters, and he could arc in and out of a circle at any point. At times it seemed as if he was just waiting for you to decide which portion of the floor you were going to mop up next. Even though he has now moved back to the Phillippines I can still hear that insane cackle in the back of my head, "Ha ha ha, I can hit you easily!" Regards, Terry Tippie Pacifica, CA >snip >Tom recently shot several hours with GM Cacoy and it is anticipated that a >book will result by next year- full of great never before told war stories. >Apparently, Cacoy realized that he can't remember all of his fights any more >and wanted to get the stories told before they slip away into the mists of >time. >snip > I know Tom worked hard on putting this book together. I'm anxious to see it too. Regards, Terry Tippie Pacifica, CA ------------------------------ From: "Cory Eicher" Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 15:07:13 CDT Subject: eskrima: Culture and confrontation WARNING: THIS IS PRETTY LONG After catching up on several days worth of back EDs, I've got some commentary on the recent line of dicussion concerning 'racial dynamics.' First, in my opinion, the correct terminology would not be 'racial dynamics,' but, 'cultural dynamics.' Race and culture are closely linked in modern American society, but the two terms are not equivalent. I agree with almost everybody's points on this topic. As an example, I grew up in southern Utah, where the population was mostly Caucasian, with a some Hispanic, Native American, and Polynesian populations. Being a young and dumb kid, at sixteen and seventeen, I got in a lot of fights. I very quickly learned that in the white population, I could open my young and stupid mouth with impunity and live: the cowboys and rednecks were as tough as shit, but they wouldn't kill me. Thry might stomp me into a bloody mess (in my mind at that point it was good practice), but they would only rarely gang up and they would never pull a weapon more dangerous than a fist loader. I soon discovered that the same was NOT true of the other populations. The first time I really pissed off a Hispanic kid I ended up in the middle of a circle of his friends and he had a knife. Fortunately, I had just ended a football season and was able to first break out of the circle and then outrun them. That was a wake up a call. I could have been seriously wounded if noty killed because I misread both the signals of confrontation (I had no idea this guy was that angry) and the level to which the situation could escalate. A couple of weeks later one of my friends was hospitalized by a big Tongan with a broomstick as a result of playing his guitar on the stairs of the apartment complex he lived at and responding in the wrong way when asked to stop. Between these two incidents I really had to take a long, hard look at the sort of miscommunications that lead up to potentially deadly tensions. I can't really be specific here because I lack the vocabulary to describe subtle social cues, btu there are obvious differences in what constitutes a challenge signal to a man raised on a farm (quite likely to want to fight but unlikely to escalate beyond fists) and one raised in a neiborhood where gunshots are heard on a regualr basis (extremely reluctant to fight, but if pushed is likely to escalate immedietely to the most extreme response at their disposal). In the thread of environmental awareness, brought up during the discussion of defense on the toilet, being aware of the levels of potential escalation from the population involved is critical. It is always, in my admittedly limited experience, best to expect escalation of any conflict and work to prevent that escalation as much as possible. I am much more comfortable with the idea of 'losing' a fist fight (i.e., I get more than I give) than I am 'winning' a knife fight (i.e., the person that is trying to kill me ends up dead and I don't). This isn't to say that I'm not willing to defend myself as much as necessary, I just hate the idea of orphaning children over a something less serious than my life. I'm bringing all this up because on Saturday, I almost stumbled into a rapidly escalating situation. My best friend/training partner/instructor were going out to a movie with our repective womes (his wife and my fiance). We were driving down the street and saw a woman running down the street crying and two men fighting. I had my fiance call the police while my instructor and I got out of the car, with the idea of breaking up this fight some. At this point the question become one of, 'Do I want to grab my sticks? Do I want to have my knife ready? Should I put my ass on the line here or wait for the police?' As it turned out, these questions answered themselves. One of the men saw us and fled on foot, the other got in his car and drove after the crying woman. When the police arrived (in less that two minutes after the call was made, highly impressive) we told them what had happened and they chased both of the men down. At any rate, I'd be happy to hear commentary on any of this long-ass ramble, either on the Digest or at my personal e-mail. Cory ========================================= Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 13:25:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #378 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.