From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #383 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Fri, 10 Sept 1999 Vol 06 : Num 383 In this issue: eskrima: Vocabulary help eskrima: What are words for? eskrima: vocab eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #382 eskrima: Re: Stick Angles Right & Left eskrima: Re: Vocabulary help eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #382 Re: eskrima: Re: Stick Angles Right & Left eskrima: Re: It slices, it dices... ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Loki Jorgenson Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:15:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Vocabulary help It's not a 100% complete but the interface at http://www.cecm.sfu.ca/~loki/Kali/Glossary/ may be able to help for many of the words. Only problem is that it doesn't do fuzzy matching... >From: abass@iname.com >Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 23:12:33 -0400 >Subject: eskrima: Vocabulary help please > >Could someone provide definitions for these words? I'm trying to put >some meaning to the upcoming skills in my notebook. - -- 'gards, /\ Pekiti-Tirsia kali / \ silat Jati Wisesa Loki Jorgenson < MANOyBASTON Martial Arts > / __ \ Dog Brothers MA loki@pekiti-tirsia.org (604) 254-0240 / _L \ Majapahit Empire www.pekiti-tirsia.org/ManoBaston/ /________\ (Inosanto-IMAIA) ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:15:07 -0700 Subject: eskrima: What are words for? A Howl etc: > > Dakop - Means "to cover" (I think). It's a way to block a punch. > Perhaps "check" is a better term. Example: punch is coming, so you use > bobbing/weaving (a la western boxing) to move your head out of the way and > basically just place your open hand where your face was and place your hand > on top of the incoming fist. Make sense? Or perhaps one could say a "catch" as versus a parry. > > Higot-Hubud - Not sure of it's "meaning", but it's a FMA sensativity drill Apparently there are some humorous misunderstandings possible on this one. "Untie" or "undress" according to the language. > Hi, I'm not really sure what all of the words mean but "Kawayan" pronounced as is, means bamboo. "Redonda" is circular or an arc of a circle. What I like about Tagalog is that a there are a lot of ways to describe one word. At the Inosanto Academy the Kawayan is a particular combination that was used to cut down bamboo. It I remember correctly, and I might not, its: Forehand vertical slash, reverse backhand redondo (i.e. both strikes are on the same line) Backhand diagonal slash, forehand uppercut, reverse redondo. Crafty ------------------------------ From: "Bodnar, Stephen A" Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:35:29 -0400 Subject: eskrima: vocab Just trying to help with the vocab. Could someone provide definitions for these words? I'm trying to put some meaning to the upcoming skills in my notebook. Karensa -to shadow spar [ with or with out weapons-usually with] Redondo- to return, returning usually associated with a vertical forward series of 3 or more strikes in a circle another way is to circle the head Boulan - sun set - [1 side of the "X"] a strike from hi left to bottom right or vice versa - ADLAW sun rise -is the #1 or hi right to bottom left. Kawayan - a segausa, a counter hit- series of #1 & 2's in a pattern w/ a watick Pina Saka- direction- a hit from above [I believe] Dakop- cooking term to put the lid on the pot - to cover is correct. Higot-Hubud -or higot hubud lubud or - bud bud- [ hit /tie /un-tie] a drill for sensitivity, Panatukan, done on the 1st- 5 angles of Villabrille/ Lacosta system consisting of: a cover/moving the weapon/trapping/counter hit. has a distinctive sound pattern for promoting flow. ------------------------------ From: AKRKali@aol.com Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:53:07 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #382 In a message dated 9/10/99 1:06:38 PM Central Daylight Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << From: "Branwen Thomas" Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:32:29 -0230 Subject: eskrima: RE: Stick Angles Right & Left Dave, if I understand your question correctly, you are saying that if two partners are in mismatched leads (one has stick in right, one has stick in left), and Right asks Left for an angle 1, then Left throws angle 2. I haven't done much mismatched lead work yet, but I would probably tell Left (if I was Right) to throw a #2 (but make sure that Left understood that to me, it was a #1.) I'm not sure if that's what you wanted to know...it's fun trying to work it out in my head, though! Jocelyne holy crow, it's like math...argh, I'm an ARTS grad....! Roaring Girl * Purveyor Of Fine Books * Beater Of Bodhrans * Smiter Of The Wicked * * Owned By Angus, Most Elegant And Pleasing Of Cats * >> Yes, that is what I am saying. Do you teach your students left hand striking techniques? If so, how do you call out the numbered attacks with left hand even if you both have stick in left hand, and do they start from oppisite side? Example: angles 1-12 .... is angle #1 called a #1 even though it isn't to same angle as a right handed person throws? Some people believe an angle #1 is an angle #1 no difference (it must come to opponents left side of the head). Some believe angle #1 right is called the same with left, but the angle is to your opponents right side of head, not left side. Man, this is getting confusing. Sorry if I am confusing you all. Dave ------------------------------ From: abass@iname.com Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:45:16 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Re: Stick Angles Right & Left I believe that Dave is presenting this: If I am facing an opp with a stick in my right hand and deliver a downward diagonal blow to the left side of opp head (his left), I am delivering a #1 strike. If I deliver a downward diagonal blow to the right side of the opp head (her right -- PC you know), I am delivering a #2 strike. Now, if I move the stick to my left hand and deliver the same downward diagonal strike the left side of opp head, am I delivering a #1 strike (based on the ANGLE of attack) or am I delivering a #2 strike (based on the HAND delivering it -- i.e backhand)? Another way to phrase the question might be: Are the "angles of attack" and the "strike numbering system" the same? As I type, I'm formulating the idea that the Angles remain constant and that the strike number will change depending on the hand wielding the weapon. For instance, let's assume that we are facing each other and you instruct me to strike the left side of your head. 1) "Ashley, angle one please" Here my weapon can be in either hand as the Angle of downward diagonal to left side of opp head is called for. If in right hand, strike number is #1 (inward). If in left hand, strike number is #2 (backhand). 2) "Ashley, angle two please" Here my weapon can be in either hand as the Angle of downward diagonal to right side of opp head is called for. If in right hand, strike number is #2 (backhand). If in left hand, strike number is #1 (inward). 3) "Ashley, number one please" If my weapon is in right hand, I deliver *inward* strike along angle one to left of opp head. If my weapon is in left hand, I deliver *inward* strike along angle two to right of opp head. 4) "Ashley, number two please" If my weapon is in right hand, I deliver *backhand* strike along angle two to right of opp head. If my weapon is in left hand, I deliver *backhand* strike along angle one to left of opp head. Can we say then, that *Srike Angles* are perceived from the opponent's point of view and that *Strike Numbers* are preceived from the attacker's point of view? What do you think? ash - --------------------------------------------------- All the busy little creatures Chasing out their destinies Living in their pools They soon forget about the sea... - ----------------------------------N.P.------------- ------------------------------ From: "Branwen Thomas" Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:26:35 -0230 Subject: eskrima: Re: Vocabulary help I'm still learning, but this is what I understand these words to mean > Boulan - NFI (No F*ckin' Idea) I believe it's the name of one of the "lines" of attack - "sun" and "moon" lines - adlaw & bulan lines. I think it's high right to low left (slash for example) and then the other would be high left to low right - (corrections please-this is one I'm not quite sure of myself) > Kawayan - NFI No idea > Pina Saka - NFI No idea > Dakop - Means "to cover" (I think). It's a way to block a punch. yah, it's a parry/cover/block I believe. > Higot-Hubud - Not sure of it's "meaning", but it's a FMA sensativity drill YAH! i looooove sensitivity drills - this one blends especially well with the wing chun gung fu trapping. I believe it means "blend tie and untie". My Sifu says if wing chun is "sticky hands", then the filipino version could be "unsticking hands", which is why they go well together. the more languages you speak, the better you can understand another's mind/culture (notice I didn't say "agree with") - polylinguality for everyone! :) Jocelyne Roaring Girl * Purveyor Of Fine Books * Beater Of Bodhrans * Smiter Of The Wicked * * Owned By Angus, Most Elegant And Pleasing Of Cats * ------------------------------ From: Mike Casto Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:21:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #382 << Could someone provide definitions for these words? I'm trying to put some meaning to the upcoming skills in my notebook. >> I'll give it a go, though I claim no expertise here. I'll simply supply the definitions to the best of my knowledge. <> Free flow impromptu solo "dance" (for lack of a better word) <> A vertical strike which describes a big circle on one side of your body. <> The line from your left shoulder to your right hip (or knee) ... usually Angle 2 line, but it's the entiretly of the line (i.e.: whether you're moving your stick upward or downward along it, you're still on the "Boulan" [sp?] line). It's counterpart is "Adla" and is usually the Angle 1 line. I've also heard them called Reyal [King] (=Adla) and Regina [Queen] (=Boulan) or the Sun (=Adla) and Moon (=Boulan). Where I've most commonly heard reference to this is with abaniko strikes (i.e.: an abaniko can be done on Adla or Boulan lines as well as horizontally [the most common] or vertically). <> Not familiar. <> Closest I can come is "Pina Lubos" which, I think, means "under" but is used to describe a type of limb destruction where you've got something over and under the limb (i.e.: your hand over and your knee under an incoming kick). I don't know specifically what the words translate to, but I would guess that "Pina Saka" is related to "Pina Lubos" (maybe a different way of saying the same thing). <> I think this literally means "the cup". We commonly use it in two contexts. One is the "cup" formed by your hand in which your stick sits. The other is where you "cup" (and usually scoop) the opponent's limb. For instance, parry to the inside of an incoming fist and punch your opponent in the face, then take your punching hand and "cup" it around the tricep of his punching arm, then scoop it down and smash his bicep with your other elbow (hopefully that description makes some sense). <> I'm not sure about the "Higot" part. "Hubud," I believe means "to lock" or "to tie." Or maybe to "unlock" or "untie". "Hubud Lubud" (or "Hubad Lubad") is a sensitivity drill that teaches, among other things, trapping ... hence you are "tying and untying" with your partner. However, I've also heard that "hubud" means "naked from the waist up" in some parts of the Philippines (though I think it's a regional thing). Hope I've been some help :-) Mike __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:43:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: eskrima: Re: Stick Angles Right & Left > Now, if I move the stick to my left hand and deliver the same > downward diagonal strike the left side of opp head, am I delivering a > #1 strike (based on the ANGLE of attack) or am I delivering a #2 > strike (based on the HAND delivering it -- i.e backhand)? In Inayan, the angles are 'attackee' angles, they way they are viewed by the attackee, not the attacker. So a right hander attacking with a downward forehand is the same angle (to the attackee) as a lefty attacking with a downward backhand. Both should result in a #1 countering technique being executed by the defender (attackee). Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: David Fulton Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:36:31 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Re: It slices, it dices... At 08:23 AM 9/10/99 -0700, Jon Howard wrote: > > >You have to realise the difference between a cut and a slash (in my humle >opionion anyway). > >I would define a slash as a fast smooth continuous move that cuts as it is >drawn across the surface of the target and as you pointed out, serrations >tend to catch and tear more than a plain edge - I think is due to the >different angles that the blade edge is presented to the target. > >A cut is a more deliberate motion (often executed quiet slowly) designed to >affect a specific area, maybe acting through a back and forth almost sawing >motion. If you think of the way the meat fibres are laid out in a piece of >steak then you can see how the serrations cut through through the fibres, >where a straight edge would simply cause the fibres to move about underneath >the blade. > While I won't argue the validity of the distinctions that you make wrt to cutting vs. slashing, I will say that in the context of the original post (ie. knife fighting) they're not necessary. In a fight, you either stab them or cut them. Whether you call it a slice, a slash, or a cut isn't important because the result is the same (ie a "cut" that will hopefully incapacitate them). In general however, serrations are most helpful on harder or slicker materials. Examples are: hard plastic, metal, wood, etc because the serrations will dig in more easily and allow for a "sawing" motion, while a plain edged knife is more likely to just slide over these surfaces. On the other hand, as you said, serrations can be bothersome on softer materials, like fabrics because they can catch on the cloth and rip rather than cut it. However, serrations can increase the cutting power of a smaller knife by compensating for the lack of heft. Further, while a "clean" (ie neat & even) cut is necessary in some situations, in others (like a fight) it isn't a primary concern. Having said all of that, I carry a Spyderco Endura 50/50 for the versatility of having both edge profiles in a single knife. Respectfully, Dave Fulton dfulton@computerpackages.com Full Contact Martial Arts Association "As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another." ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #383 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.