From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #384 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Fri, 10 Sept 1999 Vol 06 : Num 384 In this issue: eskrima: PMAA-Digest eskrima: lefty vs. righty eskrima: Serrations eskrima: re:angles and strikes eskrima: Re: Vocabulary help eskrima: Authentic Kris Swords eskrima: Answers eskrima: Re: naming angles of attack... eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #383 eskrima: Let me rephrase that... eskrima: Dominant hands, angles and defense Re: eskrima: Authentic Kris Swords eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:41:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: PMAA-Digest The Police Martial Arts Association (PMAA) digest. A brand new e-mail distribution list for the respectful discussion of law enforcement and martial arts matters, for all those wheresoever dispersed around the globe. All are welcome! How to join the PMAA (Police Martial Arts Association) email discussion group... The list is managed by the "Majordomo" listserver software. To subscribe to pmaa-digest send e-mail to the address; majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com with subscribe pmaa-digest in the BODY of the message, top line and left justified (not in the subject line). Also, make sure your e-mail is not in HTML format, use 'Plain Text' if using Outlook or Outlook Express. Brought to you by: http://www.PoliceMartialArts.com and http://www.MartialArtsResource.com ------------------------------ From: "big Joe A." Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:44:56 PDT Subject: eskrima: lefty vs. righty Dave wrote: >From: AKRKali@aol.com >Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:52:29 EDT >Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #379 > >I would like any ones opinion on angles of attack from right hand or left >hand position. When we train, we say the number to the beginner, and >he/she >give the proper angle primarily with their right stick. That is if we are >both hold the stick say, in our right hand. Would the number of the angle >change if he/she hold their stick in their left hand and you are holding >your >weapon in your right hand? Just wanting to know your opinion. We have >tried >both. They give the exact angle they did with stick in right hand (I call >a >#1 angle, and they feed my angle #1 which is really a left handers #2) or, >they mirror the movement on opposite side. Example: The left hander feeds >their #1 angle which is the right handers angle #2. What works best for >your >school. > >Thanks, and keep up the good work on the digest. >Dave I reply: As far as our school is concerned the numbering system is totally opposite for the lefty and the righty. For example our righty #1 starts chambered over our right shoulder and is targeted at our opponents left shoulder/clavicle(What I believe Guro Crafty calls the Caveman strike.). While for the lefy his #1 starts over his left shoulder and is targeted at his opponents right shoulder\clavicle. Hence in our system a lefties #1 would be a Righties #4 and vice versa. This is all very confusing unless you matched up against a lefty. Luckily the school I train at has an Advanced level lefty. I remember matching up against him when I first started. For a while I had just been working out with righties then "bing" out of nowhere comes the Kaliwete. Man was I thrown off. I now find after being exposed to a lefty for a while that it now doesn't make a difference and I can react to a lefty or righty. If any of you get the chance to work out with a skilled lefty take it. The experience you will gain is quite valuable. Without it a lefty will have a pretty big advantage over you in that you WILL get confused by his movements easier then if he were a righty. Kind of like a south paw boxer over a righty. Well just my $2.00 worth as usual. Hasta la pasta. Your friend in training, BIG Joe A. "Nothing in life stays the same." -N.B.S.- ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "David Chinell" Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:22:06 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Serrations Heya list: I used to like 50/50 blades until I started sharpening my own knives. Over the past year I've slowly replaced every serration in my (considerable) collection of tactical knives. I just can't sharpen them, and I HAVE to be able to maintain my own tools. Thanks to knife knights like Steve Harvey and Joe Talmadge, I learned how to sharpen my own, and that a "plain" edge can be created that will cut most materials as well as a serrated edge will. So there's another angle on the issue. Serrations are difficult or impossible to maintain. No problem if you never use your self-defense knife for utility stuff. (But that's a great excuse for carrying more than one knife.) Bear ------------------------------ From: LeighanS@aol.com Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:32:38 EDT Subject: eskrima: re:angles and strikes from:leighans@aol.com what ever happened to a simple 'boot to the head'? ------------------------------ From: abass@iname.com Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:27:41 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Re: Vocabulary help Thanks to you all for the help with these words. Many of your inputs are relative to what my tasks are. Karensa I've not yet seen demonstrated so I wait with the knowledge gained herein. From a closed position with both arms crossed and weapon in right hand (heaven): Redondo - bring weapon from left side of body across front of body to angle 1 strike and back to closed position Boulan - slash down from high-left to low-right, flip wrist, slash back up and return to closed position Kawayan - redondo, boulan, redondo Pina Saka - only seen this once but I belive it is a boulan and then adlaw, first with one hand and then with the other. Dakop - used as first word of my list of Kamot parries Higot-Hubud - I've not seen this one yet and again am waiting. Thanks to all who've helped. Being able to put some meaning to these terms really helps with remembering their actions. ash > Vocabulary help ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ All the busy little creatures Chasing out their destinies Living in their pools They soon forget about the sea... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~N.P.~~~~~~ ------------------------------ From: "Haru Taka" Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:43:59 CDT Subject: eskrima: Authentic Kris Swords The students in my eskrima class want to buy a gift for our instructor to thank him for his time and dedication to teaching us. He teaches us for free and we usually just take him out to eat wherever he wants, but this time we want to buy him an authentic kris sword (combat, not decorative). Does anyone know where I can find a good, honest person/store that sells authentic kris swords at low prices? Thank you! - -Haru ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: butch@epix.net Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 15:11:45 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Answers butch@epix.net wrote: From: "BILL MCGRATH" Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 23:28:47 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Pekiti-Tirsia seminar & Question I have had a few occasions where I had to train someone in a very short amount of time. My question is; if you had only a short time to work with someone, what would you show them? Let's make things really tough and say that you had only one hour to train them. Lets say you were asked to do this with five different young and physically fit guys who were going off to war. In the universe this question lives in each of the five would be armed with one of the five weapon categories classically taught in many FMA's. Which specific techniques would you teach them in each weapon? For example, I might teach the five guys the following: Single stick/sword: Double force (left hand re-enforces right wrist) horizontal and diagonal strikes. Keeping the strikes simple would allow me time to show how to vary the timing of the attacks to create openings quickly. I would show how to convert an uppercut into an umbrella. I would teach just one high forehand thrust to the face and just one forehand punyo combined with a grab. Butch: Good choice, moveover, why not aim for the legs since most people expect high line attacks to the face/eyes and instinctively will defend them. People do not expect low line attacks so use low line attacks often. Also most people do not read low line attacks coming in very well and most people do not know how to defend against low line attacks very well. Most people naturally attack the head and face by habit/ training. Double stick/sword: Fluid Attacks. This is where you are in a basic chamber and the bottom hand hits first in a backhand, then the top hand delivers a powerful forehand. It is like a boxer's jab-cross combination. Butch: This is good, moveover, if you keep attacking both high and low line in a rapid manner, a human being is not capable of defending all of his body targets at once. Double stick/sword helps you attack high and low line better. Sword and dagger. After teaching basic forehand and backhand horizontals and diagonals with the sword, I would have the student hold the dagger in icepick grip (less likely to be lost during the messiness of combat) and show him one basic eyejab and one basic cut/disarm with the dagger hand. Butch: Good for close quarters work however maybe the forward/saber grip would be better at longer range to snipe at extended limbs/knife hand etc.. Knife: I would first ask if he was going to carry a large fighting knife or a small folder. If a large fighter, I would have him hold it in hammer or fencer's grip (depending on the handle shape and the weight of the blade) and the small folder in icepick grip. In each case I would spend 5 minutes going over the best targets for the grip being used. I would divide our time between 3 or 4 basic attacks per grip (emphasis on slashing with the big knife and stabbing with the small) and the basic rudiments of knife tapping while holding a knife. Butch: If the student was going to war, a big Bowie knife would be nice for cutting and choping techniques at long range. The Bowie gives extra distance to fight out of. Also, the Bowie is big enough to use it to parry larger weapons (rifle with bayonet etc.. used against you. Also, the big Bowie would be psychologically intimidating to your opponent. Would teach techniques of John Styers for Bowie knife use along with your 3 or 4 basic attacks etc thrown in. Hands: Elbows, knees and one neck break or choke from the front and one from the rear. Butch: Good. Would also teach some of John Styer's concepts of close quarters combat. Kick at long range -then move in for elbow strike follow ups as appropriate. If opponent's hands are spread apart, strike between them. If opponent's hands are held high, strike low. If opponent's hands are held low, strike high. Use fakes going high and low. Attack, Attack and Attack. Opponent cannot defend all of his body at once. Go for the eyes, throat, groin and joints. This is an extremely important question to look at and think about. This is the very question that the western allies had to ask themselves during the beginning of World War II. Being totally unprepared, especially in hand to hand fighting, the allies had to come up with quick and effective programs very fast to defeat more skilled fighters from asia and elsewhere. So a few people developed hand to hand courses during World War II that had reasonable success. Moreover, the question applies to our street reality of today. Most people do not have the time or desire to study martial arts long term. Alot of people are not in the greatest physical shape such as older citizens and those with physical limitations. However, if these people want to learn self defense, what options other then firearms do they have? The only option is short term self defense courses. The problem with those courses is what techniques do you teach people in a short time that will work or allow them to run away to safety as soon as they can. I am glad that Tuhon Bill McGrath asked this question because our school has thought about this many times and never really came up with a well rounded course. Face it, a 60 year old women is not going to be able to judo throw some 250lb weightlifting punk on drugs etc.... So teaching some judo throws to her may be out of the question. I am quite interested to hear comments about this question from the folks at ED. Also, I have found the perfect weapons to get involved in other people's fights/problems and they are called a "Cell Phone" and dial 911. Butch ------------------------------ From: Ted Truscott Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:11:10 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: naming angles of attack... I teach a senior's cane and walking stick class and I use FMA (Modern Arnis) for warm-ups, hitting power etc. To simplify the angles for them, I just use the clock, all angles are called by where they enter the clock face and proceed to the center, the opposite (return) of a #10 is a #4...thrusts work around the centerline (12-6) and enter the wall behind each number, angled toward the center. I imagine this has been suggested before but if in the multi-cultural world of FMA we use such a simple and obvious naming system when we are posting to the wider world audience, clarity maybe quicker, and confusion routed!! Also, when I ask a student for a strike, I ask for it from his point of view...if I want a high forehand to my left ear, I ask for a #1 or 2. So far, works for me. Ted Truscott "the fighting old man" ------------------------------ From: "SSGroup" Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:04:58 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #383 Serrations on a blade... >> >> >>You have to realise the difference between a cut and a slash (in my humle >>opionion anyway). >>I would define a slash as a fast smooth continuous move that cuts as it is >>drawn across the surface of the target and as you pointed out, serrations >>tend to catch and tear more than a plain edge - I think is due to the >>different angles that the blade edge is presented to the target. > >>A cut is a more deliberate motion (often executed quiet slowly) designed to >>affect a specific area, maybe acting through a back and forth almost sawing >>motion. If you think of the way the meat fibres are laid out in a piece of >>steak then you can see how the serrations cut through through the fibres, >>where a straight edge would simply cause the fibres to move about >underneath >>the blade. > >While I won't argue the validity of the distinctions that you make wrt to >cutting vs. slashing, I will say that in the context of the original post >(ie. knife fighting) they're not necessary. In a fight, you either stab >them or cut them. Whether you call it a slice, a slash, or a cut isn't >important because the result is the same (ie a "cut" that will hopefully >incapacitate them). >In general however, serrations are most helpful on harder or slicker >materials. Examples are: hard plastic, metal, wood, etc because the >serrations will dig in more easily and allow for a "sawing" motion, while a >plain edged knife is more likely to just slide over these surfaces. On the >other hand, as you said, serrations can be bothersome on softer materials, >like fabrics because they can catch on the cloth and rip rather than cut it. >However, serrations can increase the cutting power of a smaller knife by >compensating for the lack of heft. Further, while a "clean" (ie neat & >even) cut is necessary in some situations, in others (like a fight) it isn't >a primary concern. >Having said all of that, I carry a Spyderco Endura 50/50 for the >versatility of having both edge profiles in a single knife. Both observations are correct; however, as previously stated, serrations increase cutting power, where the serrations remain viable (ie., rope, cord, bone, fiberous vegetables and fruits) by creating a greater cutting surface through the clever use of geometry and physics. In a combative scenario I believe that you will find that the serrations offered in the Spyderco (excellent knives, by the way) and in my favorite commercial line, Cold Steel, as well as the other brands in general, become clogged when dealing with overly moist and sponge-like material (i.e, muscle, cartilage, internal organs, adipose tissue), and quickly lose their advantage after several cuts or slashes greatly reducing their slicing ability regardless of the technique. I have found that for combative application with regard to bladed weaponry (I have very little formal training in Kali, Escrima, Arnis but a relatively large experience base to draw from) that maintaining a superbly sharp edge on high grade carbon steel without serrations does not get caught in clothing and provides very good depth of penetration on a consistent basis-- one caveat, it does require a higher degree of maintainence. Although for general utility purposes the design of the serrated blades offers many advantages. ------------------------------ From: "Jason M. Silverman" Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:20:07 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Let me rephrase that... Greetings All! Thanks for the replys to my last e-mail. I must add some info that I apparantly left out! (in my whirlwind of wedding planning) There is nothing I would rather do than spend every waking minute with my wife to be! I, however, have arranged for her to attend a private cooking class (she loves to cook!) at one of the palaces that we are staying at in Cuneo. My query was truly to find a place to fill the 4 hours that we will be apart and maybe bring back a toy for the old collection. ***Chris, can you back me up on this one? As far as maintaining my, ahem, workouts....not to worry! Odds are I may not have the energy to train. (with anybody else that is!!) Thanks again for all of the kind words! All the best, Jason P.S. to all who gave me such sound advice I must say, "Yes, Dear!" Just thought I'd get some premarital practice in! lol Jason M. Silverman Executive Edge Martial Development Universe Gym of North Quincy 31 Newport Avenue North Quincy, Ma 02171 (617) 472-1070 http://home.earthlink.net/~grappler/ ------------------------------ From: "Jason Inay" Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:26:17 PDT Subject: eskrima: Dominant hands, angles and defense To add to Ray's earlier comment regarding angles: In the Inayan System angle identification is always a constant. If you have to teach lefties and righties in the same room it is inefficient to use alternate numbering or nameing systems. A 1 by any other name is still as dangerous, but it is a "1" Now in regards to deffense: the deffense is not dependant on the angle to be deffended but whether you are defending your "Sword Side" or you "Shield Side". Guro29 (sorry about the title he he) Jason Inay Chance favors only the prepared mind..... Pasteur "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Historical Review of Pennsylvania ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:47:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: eskrima: Authentic Kris Swords > The students in my eskrima class want to buy a gift for our instructor to > thank him for his time and dedication to teaching us. He teaches us for free > and we usually just take him out to eat wherever he wants, but this time we > want to buy him an authentic kris sword (combat, not decorative). Does > anyone know where I can find a good, honest person/store that sells > authentic kris swords at low prices? You can frequently find the curved, straight, and half-n-half Moro kris on eBay.com. Also check out Cecil Quirino's Kris Cutlery. I like the Moro blades as they are combat oriented, the Javanese and Balinese kris are not really for combat. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:41:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #384 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.