From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #407 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Thur, 30 Sept 1999 Vol 06 : Num 407 In this issue: eskrima: Re: Ngo Cho Kune eskrima: Fall DB Gathering Report [none] eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #405 eskrima: Re: Ngo Cho Kun Gung Fu eskrima: Im back eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Taojen1@aol.com Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 18:12:00 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Ngo Cho Kune In a message dated 9/29/99 3:47:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << I just saw the questions about Ngo Cho Kun.. also heard something interesting... a guy is teaching it in Georgia?! My Sifu, Bonifacio Lim, teaches in Plainsboro New Jersey. >> Actually your Sifu is the one I think I meant. But hell, here in Massachusetts New Jersey IS the South. I think its quite clear that 5 ancestors is the basis of most, if not all, Okinawan styles. Uechi claims pangainoon but no such style has ever been documented written or orally from Fujian. Buddy ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:57:15 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Fall DB Gathering Report A HOWL OF GREETING TO ALL: As is the custom, the Dog Brothers Autumnal Equinox was held on the Saturday closest to the Autumnal Equinox—which this year was on September 18th. As usual it was hard to estimate crowd size. Estimates range from three to six hundred-- I'd call it 400-450. Our usual drummer, Brent Lewis, (whose CDs are available on the catalog page of our website) was in Australia for a gig with the Australian Ballet (!) and was once again most ably replaced by his friend Jim McGrath (whose CDs we also plan to carry). Twenty eight fighters from around the US and two from Switzerland were there for a grand total of thirty fighters. There were 4 fighters in the 230-260 lb. range and one more, a semi-pro football player, went 320lbs. Also there was the legendary Rod Kuratomi. Those of you who have read Top Dog's history of his Pekiti Tirsia-to-Dog Brothers days may remember Rod as the Tak Kabota trained Japanese stylist noted for his use of the bokken, shinai, tonfa and similar weapons. For the first time there were two women— this will be the subject of a separate post. The Desert clan of the Dog Brothers, led by Chris "C-True Dog" Clifton , was there 4 strong. Coached by an injured Surf Dog, the Hemet clan sent two. The Hermosa clan was represented by Top Dog, Dogzilla, Underdog, Pappy Dog, C-True Dog and yours truly. Salty Dog, obligated by family matters and dinged up from mountain biking, was missing from action, and his Santa Fe clan followed suit—resting up for the Santa Fe Invitational Sessions this November no doubt. The New York clan, leaderless due to C-Raw Dog's broken ankle (jet-skiing) stayed home. From Canada, Sled Dog was out with an injury, and C-Tricky Dog was in the middle of a move to San Francisco. Original Dog Brother Mongrel sent two fighters. My brother in Lameco Felix Valencia sent two. And amongst the various independents there were James Kelly and Shawn Owens came from Utah, Barry Meadows from Tennessee, and there was someone from Boston as well as the usual motley assortment of Californians. A film crew from Nefelum Films was there to film it all for a segment in their documentary on extreme fighting around the world. As part of this, they will be going to the "Santa Fe Invitational Sessions" hosted by Salty Dog in early November. As was mentioned on the Eskrima Digest, each of the 10-12 fighters there will fight each of the other fighters over the course of two days. What role all of this will have in the final project is unknown at this time. It may be that we are just a 5 minute segment in a 90 minute documentary, or it may be that we become something more substantial in what the piece has to say. Nefelum Films tells me their idea for the project is to complete it and troll it at the Sundance Festival it for a distribution deal. There's no knowing where all this will end up: a three in the morning cable TV show? The garbage can? In a theater near you as the next "Pumping Iron"? Stay tuned , , , As always, the day began with the knife sparring. Unlike the two-on-two matches of last time, for some reason the fighters went with the one-on-one format. Many fighters are now acting more realistically, although as always there were a number of kamikaze fests. As time was being called, Top Dog's opponent cleverly threw his knife at him. On a personal note, my round was with Rod Kuratomi who speared me in the metaphoric eyeball various times. Random Observations: Serving as Ringmaster for the first time was Ed "Hot Dog" Solomon. This is a role that requires a lot of different subtle skills and Ed was the man for the job—this is a tremendous load off of me on a day when I'm busy with so many things. Thanks Ed! James Stacy ran the equipment bag, helped keep fighters on deck and moving out onto the field. The flow of the day was the easiest I can remember since things started getting big. Things started with a bang with the opening fight being a four foot staff fight. There was a substantial spread in the size of the fighters (about 75lbs) but with the power possible with a staff, this didn't seem to matter with the smaller fighter doing quite well. I have not yet been able to confirm, but there was talk on the sidelines of a possible ruptured eardrum in their second fight later in the day. Top Dog was in fine form. He fought many times—all of them barefoot and WITHOUT HAND OR ELBOW PROTECTION. Yes, he was wearing gloves, but they were baseball batting gloves whose sole purpose (and effect) is to protect the skin from the "cheese grater" effect of punching someone wearing a fencing mask. Also, his headgear was of the flimsiest of the old style—truly a screen mesh wrapped around the head. Apart from protecting the eyes, it does not do much. His best fight of the day was with James Kelly of Utah (recently of the US Army Recon Rangers if I have it right) which left him with blood running from his dome down his face. Good fight! Kudos to Tom Stillman for wearing ski gloves in his fights. Rod Kuratomi showed why Top Dog has spoken so highly of him over the years. Fighting with a four foot staff in several of his fights and in one fight with a cane and tonfa he impressed one and all. One of his fights with staff was as good an example as I've ever seen of the new fencing headgear making a difference in a fight. His opponent must have taken some 10-15 strong vertical strikes in a mad bullrush close! "Dog" Dale Franks impressed many with his range of skills (ambidextrous single stick, double stick, double stick against staff, staff) and fighting spirit. After telephone consultation with Salty Dog, The Council of Elders declared him to be "Candidate Island Dog"—a name of his choosing. Chris Clifton is Candidate Dog Brother no longer. He is now "True Dog". Shawn Owens and James Kelly of Utah are now both "Dog". Randall K. intrigued one and all with a style that I call, in a spirit of respect, "the bumble bee". With his extremely active footwork, fighting him appears to be like trying to swat an angry bumble bee. You swat at it and it seems moves off an unpredictable angle only to veer in unexpectedly with a nasty sting. 53 yr. old Underdog, fresh from taking the California bar exam and several months of no training, fought anyway and acquitted himself quite well. What a stud! Pappy Dog, lead guitarist for the Fontanels and fresh from a flu fought one fight anyway. On a personal note, I had a double stick fight and a staff fight. Both were great fun--- except for getting cracked on the head at the very end of the staff fight! Overall I would say that the level of the fighters was quite good and the spirit excellent. It was a very good day. Crafty Dog GF PS: Concerning the Catfight, what I have written is longwinded—even by my standards and so will be a separate post—unless Ray finds it too long! ------------------------------ From: "big Joe A." Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 17:39:51 PDT Subject: [none] Hi all, I will shortly(nov.21-30) be taking a 10 day vacation in Hawaii. I was just wondering if there are any people on the list that live near the waikiki area who would like to get together for a few hours for a friendly work out. I do hate to miss workouts and with this trip I will be missing two and would like to keep sharp. Also interested in seeing what else is out there. If anyone is interested or knows of a good school to check out in the waikiki area please contact me. Thanks all, Big Joe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Jivita@aol.com Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:44:03 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #405 In a message dated 9/29/99 7:13:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Finally the first of a series of books is out by Anthony Davis and Leo Fong on Angel Cabales, you can check it out in the book section at Koinonia http://www.wizard.com/~kyud/koinonia.html >> Will these books make their way to local book stores or will this be a mail order thing? Thanks. ------------------------------ From: JYCHOW@au.oracle.com Date: 30 Sep 99 13:46:24 +1000 Subject: eskrima: Re: Ngo Cho Kun Gung Fu MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Oracle InterOffice (version 4.1.2.12.0) Content-Transfer-Encoding:quoted-printable Content-Type:text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Pat wrote:- >My Sifu, Bonifacio Lim, teaches in Plainsboro New Jersey. >As far as we know we are the only legit school in the US. > This has always been the case for every master and grandmaster:- "Mine is the legitimate one" "I am the successor" While in general, this is the characteristic behavior of many in the martial arts world, lets us talk about Ngo Cho......... There were at least 5 GMs of Ngo Cho in Asia outside of China who claim the successorship, true legitimacy, etc. Malaysia (Kuala Lumpur): GM Chee Kim Tong Singapore: deceased Philippines (Manila): GM Tan MAlaysia (Sarawak): deceased Taiwan: deceased I think there could be one in Indonesia as well. My friend, each one on them claims to be the true one and not the others. Familiar story? I have lots of experience with stories told by all masters, and all of them certainly can produce reasons to back their claims. Familiar? That is why I always smile whenever I hear stories. I only keep them in my mind to reproduce and cross reference when I come across the next master. Eg. GM Chee Kim Tong claimed to have learnt from the legitimate source, and further to that, had learnt from a very strange and mysterious old monk in a cave. They claimed that their art is solely internal, and that the other Ngo Cho GMs do not have the whole internal stuff. Very good, excellent! I am very pleased for his group. It is said that they used to win in competitions. And they were so well known that many rich families came to learn from them. I was told that they used to get along very well and are close to the Singapore group. Their kung fu is the true and most authentic of the Ngo Cho groups. Then I came across an instructor from the Singapore group. When I mentioned GM Chee Kim Tong, I got a terrible sigh. He remarked 'More than just a pain and a headache that he made for us......' Whatever that means, I leave it to you. I asked whether the Malaysian group= is any good then. He laughed, and I leave the interpretation to you also. He said, the proof is in the pudding. It is easy to talk, but they must prove with action. Why is that Chee Kim Tong's group always get beaten in the competitions? Oh that is new to me...... I sought to clarify, did your group ever compete against Chee Kim Tomg's group in competition. He say, of course, that I was what I meant. They were consistently beaten. oh...... I had my tail between my legs now out of embarrassment. Each contradicted each other. I came across the Manila group which has strong connections with Bakbakan. They also told me they are the legitimate one. I asked for the difference between the internal power of the different groups. I was told that the Manila group's Ngo Cho is very internal and the others are more external. oh...... That was the claim of the other... They also have their reasons why theirs is the true one. A few weeks ago, I was with my good friend who was an instructor from the Chee Kim Tong camp, and I was feeling cheeky, so I fired him and criticised his group, citing the contradictions....... His answer was taht it is true that Chee Kim Tong's group did not do very well in the competitions later, but they won most of the earlier competitions because after they got famous, too many rich kids came in and they could not train hard because they can not live a hard kung fu life. Whatever the case, I hope the above shows that no one is singularly correct and that all are correct in some parts of the picture. They are all GMs with legitimate lineages. All excellent masters. Should teach us to take the stories of masters with a pinch of salt? As somebody in the Escrima Digest once said, they are stories, and should be treated as such............ I am not saying Bonifacio Lim is no good, neither Chee kim Tong. I never said that! I am only saying stories and claims are stories and claims. No need to take them as gospel truth............ ------------------------------ From: TGAce@aol.com Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 07:11:53 EDT Subject: eskrima: Im back Hello, Greetings fom sunny Tuzla Bosnia (it really is sunny). I had signed off the list thinkig I wouldnt have access for the duration of my military tour. I was wrong, theres a pretty nice computer center here. I hope to get into practice again so if anybody knows of any practiconers stationed at Camp Eagle Base, drop me a line. Sgt. Thomas Gerace ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 06:39:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #407 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.