From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #424 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Mon, 11 Oct 1999 Vol 06 : Num 424 In this issue: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #423 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #423 eskrima: various and sundry eskrima: Re: padded sticks Re: eskrima: various and sundry eskrima: Re: Djurus/Kata eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AnimalMac@aol.com Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 11:44:39 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #423 In a message dated 10/11/99 8:19:19 AM Mountain Daylight Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Before teaching a djuru, take one of their own katas (or maybe a part of one) and pick it apart like you do your own djurus. Maybe you can broaden their mindests by expanding on the material they already know. >> I've done that in the past. And yes, their eyes do get really big. Unfortunately they then classify it as "bunkai". We had Bob Orlando come over and give a seminar on kuntao/silat. Now Bob is a great lecturer and teacher and whether you agree with him or not, he will make you think. In fact, before you disagree with him, you better have your ducks in a line. Otherwise you are going to end up standing there responding to what he says with intellegent comments like "Is not!" "Ugh-huh!" (I especially recommend his book Martial Arts America as a critical assesment of what is going on in American Martial arts. It left me with a cheesey grin for days). Anyway after the class Bob and I were over making Italian jokes when the quanjinum (sp? Head of one of the schools) came over and gushed to my wife "Isn't it wonderful that we have all of this in our own style?" Of all the responses Dianna could have used she chose the more tactful one. She looked at the woman and said "No we don't...we don't even have anything close" I think I should however mention a subsiderary problem that I am having. My students are going back to the TKD 'self-defense' and saying "This won't work!" There have been a few occassions where they showed other students (and once even the instructor) why it wouldn't work. I don't want to disrespect the head honcho or upset the applecart, because there are a lot of "never been in a fight" blackbelts who really beleive that the systems self-defense would work. Yet they don't come and ask me. >Maybe by showing them the dustbunnies under their own beds, you can more easily illustrate the vorpal dustbunnies under your bed :-) Snicikity snack! ------------------------------ From: AnimalMac@aol.com Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 12:35:07 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #423 In a message dated 10/11/99 8:19:19 AM Mountain Daylight Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << just curious about something, in your last post indirectly had some negitive feelings about drills. just wonder how you teach if not by drilling. >> I wouldn't call them negative, I just have some serious reservations about their limits. Yes I know they can produce mother'n fast reactions, but I also feel that they can lead to a Patch Adams kind of problem. How many fingers? Look beyond the problem to see the person behind it and all of that. In my new book, I honestly admit that if I step into the ring with a trained martial artist for a drawn out match with rules, I'm going to lose. Superior technique will win out in the long run. However, if the same guy and I were to go into an alley, I would be the one walking out not only alive, but with his wallet too. How can this be? Simple, I ain't playing. People have asked me what I am thinking about when I go into it. They think I am joking when I tell them that my only though is (and excuse the crassness) "that this a**hole is between me and a blowjob" They say, "No, really what are you really thinking?" Bad news folks, I am deadly serious. I tend to get destructive when such impediments get in my way. Objects lose their right to exist. I don't care about his attack, A) it's not going to land and B) I'm going to take the guy out. And I am going to do it now. It is a real Draconian fury (for those of you who know the reference, it is the Scottish Black Rage). The second he attacks it is already over as far as I'm concerned. The problem isn't the attack. It's the guy behind it. I remove him and I remove this and any other future attacks. In order to do this however, I have to be able to streak in any hole that he presents to me and take him out. And that means any hole no matter how small or short in duration. My problem with drills has to do with the fact that they tend to train people to focus on the drill, not taking the guy out. Personally my biggest problem with drills is when I am doing them I am fighting my instinctive reaction to just reach through that huge gapping hole he left hanging there and ripping out his throat. I literally end up having to fight myself, more than the guy who is training with me.This really interferes with my ability to do a flow drill. That is my problem, my partner's problem however is he gets so focused on doing the drill that he loses the instinctive speed it takes to snake through those windows that only open up for a moment. His training takes him into a "check pass, check pass, check pass mindset." But to survive a nasty scenario, it needs to be "check pass rip -- game over" I have had a lot of people tell me that they can make the transistion from sparring and drilling into this mindset...and I'm sorry you can't. I regularly step onto the mat with people who think they are going to have time to work themselves up to standing against me. The next thing they know is they are on the deck.These people are trained and they can stand up against someone who isn't dedicated to nailing their hides to a wall. But against someone who is coming in with a "I kill you now" they fall. So that is my reservation about drills. It's not that they are bad, but we can lose the forest from the trees. In the Mask of Zorro, there are the lines "You know how to use that thing?" "Yeah, you take the pointy end and put it into the other guy" What few people realize is that statement is either the mark of a total amateur or a master. Everything else is just details. ------------------------------ From: John Frankl Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 13:04:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: eskrima: various and sundry What doesn't kill you makes you stronger?!?! Please, Neitzche wasn't fighting with edged weapons, or even with his hands for that matter. Anyone on this list should know better--there are many things, both weapons and simple joint locks, that may not kill you but will surely leave you weaker for the rest of your life. This kind of macho attitude is rarely present in those who have actually been in combat. As for kata, djurus, etc.--If you are alone in the woods, maybe. If you live in the 18th century and no protective gear or training weapons are available, maybe. But if you are here and now and have some good partners, why? Finally, even if you are alone and back in time, shadow boxing--or its equivalent with weapons--will always be more real and more meaningful than a sreries of movements dreamed up by some guy a few hundred years ago to deal with situations that no longer exist--if they ever did. John ------------------------------ From: "Ted Truscott" Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 10:29:46 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Re: padded sticks I really like Sonny Umpad's padded sticks...when he showed them to me I quit looking for others! Ted Truscott The Fighting Old Man ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 11:18:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: eskrima: various and sundry > As for kata, djurus, etc.--If you are alone in the woods, maybe. If you > live in the 18th century and no protective gear or training weapons are > available, maybe. But if you are here and now and have some good partners, > why? > > Finally, even if you are alone and back in time, shadow boxing--or its > equivalent with weapons--will always be more real and more meaningful than > a sreries of movements dreamed up by some guy a few hundred years ago to > deal with situations that no longer exist--if they ever did. Lots of 'interesting' views about kata/hyung/poomse/djuru. Nothing quite like practicing kata as the sun rises or sets while you're watching the tide go out. Nothing quite like structured practice of pressure point strikes and standup grappling techniques that are as applicable today as they were last year or last century. Nothing quite like certain kata that are for the training and strengthening of the legs, lungs, and hand/foot/eye coordination, etc. Nothing quite like training with a partner either, but there will always be times when you want to train but a partner is not to be found. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Just This Guy Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 14:03:02 -0500 (CDT) Subject: eskrima: Re: Djurus/Kata I have been thinking along these lines of late. I know the rudiments of Kali and almost no Silat. I don't have a Kali instructor at this time so I do drills a lot and practice things like gunting, stick work, et cetera. I practice stick movements with empty hand. Doing this is almost like dance; with no sticks, and no specific ideas of attack in the pattern, the movements take on different significance. I find that I'm pretty good at visualizing an attacker, much better than I used to be, and I try to flow and deal with imaginary stick and hand attacks. A movement can be a parry, or it can be a fist strike, an eye jab, et cetera. I find that sinawalli patterns seem to set my hands up in the right place every time. I would be interested in more talk about djurus; I have a basic idea of what they are, specifically frameworks for motion that contain many possibilities for attack and defense, but I wonder if someone could lay one out and dissect it in detail. ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 14:34:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #424 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.