From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #427 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Wed, 13 Oct 1999 Vol 06 : Num 427 In this issue: eskrima: Training your children eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #426 Re: eskrima: Wrestling moves eskrima: AnimalMac Comments eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #426 eskrima: ASPARAGUS KNIFE eskrima: Re: Applications of djuru [none] eskrima: HK Philippine Martial Art Association eskrima: Burt Richardson eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #426 eskrima:kids in (F)MA eskrima: Re: AnimalMac Comments eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kevin Davis" Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 07:54:36 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Training your children I've been intrigued by the ongoing thread about when you should start training your kids. As a father of a nine year old girl, I agree with most of the posts. I would like, however, to address this issue from a different approach. A dear uncle of mine (more like a second father) passed away last year. Early this year I attended a LEO training program that dealt with, among other things, Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. On video the wife of an officer who had survived a deadly assault by killing the suspect told how her husband had insisted she learn how to load, make safe and shoot his Glock. The woman said that it was as if after her husbands intensely violent life or death incident his "innocence" was gone and he wanted her to be ready to deal with any deadly threat that she faced. This really hit home with me. You see, my uncle was a former Marine and veteran of the Pacific theatre of WWII (18 months in the Solomen Islands) and Korea. He had come face to face with extreme interpersonal violence (after enlisting at 16 yrs.old). His "innocence" was lost forever. I never knew a time when my uncle didn't carry at least one knife and a gun. Furthermore, anyone that my uncle loved or cared about was gonna be ready too. I got my first knife from my uncle as a young boy as well as instruction in knife and stick fighting (he had taught knife fighting in the Corps and had the abdominal scar to prove it. You know Marines they don't need no training blades!) My uncle taught me how to shoot and many other of the warrior arts. He never said why and I never knew the depth of reason until this officer's wife articulated it. For my uncle it was as if he "had" to prepare me to face what he knew existed and he had experienced. I wonder how many of us are the same way with our families or friends. I know I am. I want to protect them and want them prepared to overcome a violent assault. However, I cannot inject them with my "street experiences". I can encourage and offer but I cannot make them ready. After having done this all of my adult life and seen too much of the ugly side of life, sometimes I wonder what it would be like to be naive. I suspect this is why some of us continue to train. And also why we seek out others like us a "warrior class" if you will. Maybe your children or loved ones will "get it" one day. I thank the good Lord for giving me a warrior mentor like my uncle. His lessons still ring in my ears each day. Semper Fi Uncle Richard! Pardon my ramblings, KD ------------------------------ From: Ken Kinnan Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:52:20 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #426 At 04:52 PM 10/12/99 -0700, you wrote: >From: Nelsonsau@aol.com >Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 17:54:55 EDT >Subject: eskrima: Wrestling moves > >Cory Eicher mentioned that during his contact with many highly skilled >wrestlers that they tended to use btw three to six moves out of the hundreds >that they knew. > >I'd be interested to find out what those six moves were? > >My next question for the list members is if "expert" wrestlers only use a >handful of tech. or moves why learn hundreds? Why not just practice six >moves to perfection? Studies show that people who continue to learn higher math can do basic math faster and with less paperwork (i.e., more "in the head" calculations) than people just trained in arithmetic. ------------------------------ From: Gints Klimanis Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 18:20:11 -0700 Subject: Re: eskrima: Wrestling moves eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com wrote: > From: Nelsonsau@aol.com > Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 17:54:55 EDT > Subject: eskrima: Wrestling moves > > Cory Eicher mentioned that during his contact with many highly skilled > wrestlers that they tended to use btw three to six moves out of the hundreds > that they knew. > > I'd be interested to find out what those six moves were? The set was probably different for each wrestler. > My next question for the list members is if "expert" wrestlers only use a > handful of tech. or moves why learn hundreds? Why not just practice six > moves to perfection? Exposure to a lot of moves gives you a greater choice of techniques for your personal arsenal. Often, by practicing variations of moves, you gain a greater understanding of the principles and the body mechanics required to make the techniques effective. If every wrestler had the same arsenal of moves, then the element of surprise would be lost. ------------------------------ From: "Fox_hound @bolt.com" Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 18:52:12 -0700 Subject: eskrima: AnimalMac Comments Greetings to all. I agree with what you said. The first martial arts I tried before I found arnis was Shotokan. It's has its good points but when I was taking it, I felt that it wasn't getting to the point of what happens if you get into a real fight. All we did was perfecting our forms which is a total waste when your in combat. I think that the best way to learn is to spar as often as possible. Get your very own FREE, private e-mail account at http://mail.bolt.com ------------------------------ From: Mike Casto Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 19:28:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #426 Nelsonsau@aol.com wrote: << Cory Eicher mentioned that during his contact with many highly skilled wrestlers that they tended to use btw three to six moves out of the hundreds that they knew. I'd be interested to find out what those six moves were? >> I would guess that this would depend on which one you asked :-) << My next question for the list members is if "expert" wrestlers only use a handful of tech. or moves why learn hundreds? Why not just practice six moves to perfection? >> If all you're interested in is fighting, then a handful of techniques is all you need. Guro Dan Inosanto said at a seminar once that Shootfighting has hundreds of submission holds, but that if he were going to fight, he would want one or two holds and a hundred ways to get to them. However, a technique that works for me at 5'8" 250 lbs. may not work at all for someone who's 5'4" 140 lbs. because he may not have the sheer mass to pull it off. A technique that works for that 5'4" guy may not work for a 6'5" guy because he's too big to fit through the hole the little guy uses. Also, attitude has a lot to do with it. There are moves that I can pull off, but I don't really like them ... but my buddy (who is roughly the same size as me) loves them. So, instructors have to have a large repertoire of material to pull from because they never know what kind of student they may end up teaching. Also, if you're instructor only knows a handful of moves then those are the only moves you'll ever learn to defend against. Then, of course, you've got the techniques that are prerequisites to others ... i.e.: learning tech. B is much simpler if you already know tech. A. And, of course, having a variety of tools never hurts in general because maybe you run into a guy who none of your standards will work on. Later, Mike __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: spudchows@webtv.net (michael cole) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 20:26:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: ASPARAGUS KNIFE hi, does any one on the list know where to geta asparagas knife? just looking for my collection thanks in advance. mike ------------------------------ From: Just This Guy Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 22:42:07 -0500 (CDT) Subject: eskrima: Re: Applications of djuru EXCELLENT post. Now let's see it again. I think I know the point you are trying to make... let's see you dissect it AGAIN in a different way. What other applications can you see out of thatmovement set? How does one create a sequence that could be considered djuru? What is it that makes the movements applicable in so many different settings? Are there movements that you djust don't see in the sets due to the specificity of those movements? In an outside gunting (inward parry at the same time as backfist to the triceps of the opponent's punching arm) there are numerous possibilities as well. The backfist could be a thumb to the eye if at close range, or fartherout could be an attack to the forearm. Maybe you could even break the wrist or the elbow with this. But I understand that the genericness of djuru goes even beyond this. Care tocomment? ------------------------------ From: Luis Pellicer Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:41:33 +0800 Subject: [none] Interesting article on a Pinoy style feud. From the "just killem good" style of blade fighting, no doubt. THE PHILIPPINE STAR October 13,1999 CLAN WAR FEARED IN BASILAN ISLAND ZAMBOANGA CITY- Additional soldiers have been deployed to a remote Basilan island to avert a clan war following the killing of a village chieftain over a land depute, the military said yesterday. Major Salih Indanan, spokesman of the Army's Southern Command, said villagers have already fled their homes after fighting between two warring clans in Kaulugan Island in Tawi-Tawi, Basilan errupted over the weekend. Indanan said the fighting was triggered by the killing late Friday of Hadji Gafur Ballago, village chief of Luuk Bisaya. Police investigators said two men, believed to be members of a rival clan, barged into Ballago's house and hacked him to death before decapitating him. "We have deployed Army soldiers to the island to prevent a bloody confromtation between the feuding groups," Indanan said. Feuding families in Mindanao often settle thier differences violently. Last month at least nine people were killed in a clash between two warring families in nearby Sulu. - - Roel Pareno,DPA LSPIII ------------------------------ From: Gary Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 14:46:19 +0800 Subject: eskrima: HK Philippine Martial Art Association Dear all list members This is my great pleasure to announce the "Hong Kong Philippine Martial Art Association" is formally formed and registered with HK government. The purpose of the association is promoting Philippine martial art in Hong Kong, especially, Illustrisimo Kali and Modern Arnis. Currently we have about 35 active members, which 7 of them is chinese and the rest is Filipino and indian. Any list member who visiting HK, I am glad to show you our association. It has been a hard job and time consuming task to have this association formed. We have spending money in buying the saftety gears, making club batches, uniforms, making formal training schedule and also spending time to make our own safety padded stick which originally desgined by Guro John Chow. We have done tones of public promotion to let people to know this art. It is hard but full of enjoyment. I hope all Philippine Martial Art Club will bring some of your students next time when visiting HK, just like family members visiting each other!!! In the near future, we planning to organize an International Arnis/Kali/Eskrima competition in HK, if any clubs is interest or have any good idea, please email our association. As far as I know, this will be the first arnis competition ever held in HK. The club email contact : gary_arnis@hotmail.com Cheers gary HK Philippine martial art association ------------------------------ From: Chad Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 00:42:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Burt Richardson If anybody out there gets the chance to pick up Burt Richardson's weapons tape from the Straight Blast Gym, get it. Not too action packed, no real fights, and some will probably not even like it. Honestly, I didn't even really like the tape when I got it. I had the chance to go to a seminar he had here in Hawaii on Sunday(by the way, Krayton, now you can e-mail me and I will give you my number so we can get the boys together) basically got a better feel for the point Burt was trying to get across. The video gives you about 4 or 5 very, very good drills. They are basic, realistic, ugly drills that come out during fighting. The problem was that on the video, Burt was using padded sticks and a hockey glove which kind of took away the realism of it. Well on Sunday, Burt let everyone use their own rattan and, well I won't say that my partner needs to work on his control, but he hits very hard and showed me somthing that I could work on.(my hockey glove has been modified so that it protects my fingers and back of hand but not my wrist where as most gloves also act as a small forearm protector) So I took home 3 small lumps and a nice red welt near my elbow. Ooooh, the joys of training. Of course there are things you will agree with and things you won't, but that's life. I wish there would have been a little more on the tape, but what's on there is worth it if you look at it in the right light. (Kind of like buying that old box at the garage sale and finding the money and the old revolver). By the way, if Burt or any of his students are on the digest here's the message: "Much mahalo and appreciation. Best of luck in your continued growth that is more so JKD than any "one" way could ever be because it belongs to you, and may our paths cross again(respectfully and hopefully in that thing that you announced for me at the end of your seminar)." End of message. If anyone gets the chance to get to one of his seminars, it is highly enjoyable, very user friendly and really hands-on. "What one man wouldn't do, doesn't mean another shouldn't do." "Draw me not without reason, sheath me not without honor." Chad Hawaii __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: John Frankl Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 03:27:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #426 >I think a more accurate translation would be "that which does >not destroy me makes me stronger". Nietzsche was a wise dude." Still wrong. And he still was talking about the mind, not the body. Think blades and heavy flat sticks made of tropical hardwoods. Think torn ACLs from heel hooks, and dislocated elbows and shoulders from arm locks. All of these things may leave you "not destroy"-ed, but stronger????? Don't get me wrong, I am a big fan of both Nietzsche and Jung. I am merely questioning the facile and uncritical application of an aphorism. As for kata, etc., I am not denying their value absolutely. I would merely say that spending time on them that could be spent on other things might be a poor allocation of resources. Boxers, Thai Boxers, wrestlers, Brazilian jiu jitsu practitioners--what do they ghave in common? Two things--no kata and the ability to fight. Do the math. John ------------------------------ From: Patrick Davies Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 09:29:23 +0100 Subject: eskrima:kids in (F)MA Have only seen a little BJJ and its not available in my area of the world. Judo is. With the kids they are not allowed chokes or arm bars. Mainly holding down techniques and a lot of the throws. I mean I hardly trust adults with arm bars so im hardly going to trust a child. How does BJJ compare with this? From: SReiter000@aol.com i feel BJJ is a better way to go over judo for a few reasons - while the both give good balance - if a fight where to happen its rare that one good throw would end - so why not actually do so real training early - the Brazilians start 4 or 5 years old - and it hasn't done them any harm ------------------------------ From: Patrick Davies Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 10:15:03 +0100 Subject: eskrima: Re: AnimalMac Comments I had to work with a karate guy ten years ago on the door. I wasn't very impressed with his ability in real fights with his karate and his size and strength got him through. Now you see him and he is superb. The grace in which he moves, the power of his punch and kicks and his timing is art. The strength developed from those low stances has given him attributes well worthy of his art. 15 years of training and he is a wonderful advert. In a fight he completely destroys what is put in front of him. I have learnt from him that it is how you make the art work for you and that through diligent training and repetition it will become you. There is a broader picture that people don't always see. It's something about the time thing. Whatever the art, it has attributes which may not be apparent. There are things which I saw when I was young that I threw out but now I adopt and treasure. The way you perceive things changes as you learn to see things from wider angles. This is one of the things that I hear from the Inosanto tribe and I embrace it fully. Most of my martial arts are for recreational purposes and thank god. But if I had no alternative then I would embrace anything as a vehicle if only for the fitness. Pat Aberdeen Martial Arts Group From: Eric Shaver > This is the main reason why I have never taken any formal martial arts. I have always lived in small town America which provides your run-of-the-mill karate and TKD schools (maybe an Aikido class or two thrown in for god measure). None of these schools seem to cater to self-defense although they make big claims to this. So I am forced to learn from books and videos. I know this isn't the best, but it seems to me to be less of a waste of time then performing numerous repetitions of katas day after day. After I finish my masters degree and move to a larger city to pursue my doctorate, then I hope I will be able to find a school that teaches "real self-defense." ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 06:09:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #427 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.