From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #432 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Thur, 14 Oct 1999 Vol 06 : Num 432 In this issue: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #427 eskrima: Re: SDFW list eskrima: Bruce Lee book eskrima: Rock, Paper, Scissors eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #431 eskrima: Computer Drill Program input eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #431 Re: eskrima: Video Website eskrima: enough is too much... ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tobias Kohlenberg Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:43:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #427 On Wed, 13 Oct 1999 eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com wrote: > > From: "Fox_hound @bolt.com" > Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 18:52:12 -0700 > Subject: eskrima: AnimalMac Comments > > Greetings to all. I agree with what you said. The first martial arts I tried before I found arnis was Shotokan. It's has its good points but when I was taking it, I felt that it wasn't getting to the point of what happens if you get into a real fight. All we did was perfecting our forms which is a total waste when your in combat. I think that the best way to learn is to spar as often as possible. > > Get your very own FREE, private e-mail account at http://mail.bolt.com > I have been watching this thread for a while and had to ask: How do you spar at 80-90% with sticks? I have no problem grappling at that level, even boxing or maybe Muay Thai (though that would get damaging) but I for one, can't afford to break or even severely damage my hands during practice. The description that AnimalMac gave was very clear and made a great deal of sense. I can't see ever feeling safe enough to practice with him though. I agree, you can't practice striking the arm instead of the temple (as an example) or move from practice to KILL mode easily. So HOW do you Practice this sort of thing without killing off all your training partners? > blades and heavy flat sticks made of tropical hardwoods. Think torn ACLs > from heel hooks, and dislocated elbows and shoulders from arm locks. All > of these things may leave you "not destroy"-ed, but stronger????? > > Don't get me wrong, I am a big fan of both Nietzsche and Jung. I am merely > questioning the facile and uncritical application of an aphorism. > > As for kata, etc., I am not denying their value absolutely. I would merely > say that spending time on them that could be spent on other things might > be a poor allocation of resources. Boxers, Thai Boxers, wrestlers, > Brazilian jiu jitsu practitioners--what do they ghave in common? Two > things--no kata and the ability to fight. Do the math. They also all are generall based on moves where a single strike probably won't kill you. That doesn't work as well if you are dealing with moves like "ripping someone's throat out", or defanging the snake (by breaking their nose, arm, hand). I highly respect the Dog Brothers for being willing to take their practice to that level. I am curious how they prepare for it though. No offense is intended, but please explain how you practice pulling out all the stops and killing your opponent. Toby Ps. I can't imaninge getting so worked up about a blowjob that I would kill for it. My child's life on the other hand... To each his own. finger me for my public key ------------------------------ From: Todd Ellner Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:28:41 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Re: SDFW list It's the Self Defense For Women list which I put together a couple weeks ago. Todd ------------------------------ From: tcsno Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 18:38:54 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Bruce Lee book I have a copy of Bruce Lee's "Philisophical Art of Self Defense" that is pre-Ohara publication. That is, it was published by James Yimm Lee's publishing company. Does anyone on the list have a clue of what it is worth?? There is a ton of old Bruce Lee stuff in my old collection,...there is one cool thing however,...A Joe Weider course (twelve lessons) on self defense. This covered conditioning, vital points, boxing, grappling, judo, military, gang attacks, and thuggee(strangulation) lessons. Very sixties, but very cool. There is even a Savate lesson. Oddly, this course even shows using fist loads to deal with a boxer who is more experienced than you. The illustrations are not bad either. It beats the hell out of lots of Unique/Ohara books. It is more complete than many videos. This was WAY ahead of it's time! One other thing,( I know this is not Ebay Ray!...;-] ) I have an Official Karate magazine with Leo Gaje on the cover. It covers all the basic Pekiti,,..Payong, 4 walls, abecedario, etc. Nice little article for the time. Tom Furman ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:35:22 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Rock, Paper, Scissors A Howl of Greeting to All: In a rare post, Top Dog wrote: > >From Ron Levy > > >As other people have said, what happens if you come up against someone > who can counter your six moves? If that's all you have, the fight is > over.< > > Yes and that would really suck! Which is why I'm a proponent of > practicing a few more techniques than you will probably ever use. I > still practice things that Tuhon Gaje showed Tom B. and me years ago > even though at the time I was internally rolling my eyes thinking "When > would I ever use that move?" It wasn't until much later that something > opened my eyes (usually a stick to some part of my body) that the > possibility of that motion being useful would get past my utilitarian > nature. Just because its application is not immediately evident > doesn't mean it can't help you down the line. > However, that being said, when it comes to fighting, form follows > function. If you are training for the purpose of fighting another > martial artist, my next bit of advice is to develope "your move" - > something you can do that will inflict pain/damage/concern from a > variety of scenarios. If you have two or three (let alone six) of > these type of moves I seriously doubt you are going to find many > fighters who can handle them in the fluid and concurrent manner in > which you'll deliver them. You'll lose to that guy only because he was > able to deliver his "put away" shot(s) before you delivered yours. > > >>Another point in the same vein>. What do you do if you come up > against someone who has specifically studied YOU? If someone is 'scouting you > out' to watch your fighting style, and figure out a tactic against it? > Admittedly it happens the most in the professional arena.<< > > That's the nature of technology today and the price one pays when > stepping on the field of battle for all to see. I know from personal > experience that most of the stick fighters I face for the first time > nowadays have already seen all or a portion of "Real Contact" and have > formulated a plan to counter this or that. Case in point was at the > last Gathering when I went with Jim Kelly who made a point of not > engaging me stick to stick but closed and took the fight to the ground > at the first opportunity (which was within the first 25 seconds!). > Good idea on his part and while I might have been on top of him for > most of the fight, I was not able to hit him with either a stick or > fist and was scrambling to recover my balance during the whole skirmish > (he twisted and bucked like a 6' Mako shark on a line!). On the one > hand, this puts me at a disadvantage since they have a good idea about > my strengths and preferences, but on the other hand it keeps me honest > and forces me to deal with their game on the fly which is more > realistic in a "street" sense - I feel that we both benefit. One of the perennial "tastes great vs. less filling" conversations of the martial arts is the one about number of techniques. We all know stories about people who fail to cultivate functionality in anything because they are busy learning so many different techniques. (Or is it that they learn the techniques because they are unwilling to get physical and hone to own the skills, tools and techniques?) This is the point in the conversation where the ever loquacious Rocky will usually chime in with something about JKDC and talk about how few well-honed tools and techniques he has and how his former JKDC trained students are blinded by his brilliance. I could be wrong, but I suspect that Rocky may be underestimating how much he went through to get to these techniques and understandings. To become a finely chiseled statue like Rocky, you first need a big rock.(pun intended ;-}) with which to work. There are many more than one way to skin a cat (or to spell a word if you read "The Book of Rock". ;-} ) and to know which of the different ways to beat a man work best for you, you have to know more than one. My perspective is that some fighters are such good hammers that everything becomes a nail to them-- until they run into a bigger or harder hammer. Other fighters have a variety of techniques, strategies and games to attack the weak link of the particular fighter in front of them. The risk here of course is of a "jack of all trades, master of none" variety. The benefit is of only needing to be better than any one of opponent's links. In essence, you can beat the "better" man if you are better in just one thing. Very appealing as you get older. I think Top Dog thinks more in terms of movement than techniques and his lean efficient and graceful movement can readily be mistaken for a small number of techniques-- but speaking as one who has been hit by many of them, there are far more there than most people appreciate. I think he makes a very good point about fighting where all can see. He's now 42 and some 6 years of being studied since the release of the DB tapes can still step out on the field and accept all invitations. He could not do this if he did were limited to a handful of techniques. Already being pretty far along in his fighting trajectory, he has a basis for forming opinions about what techniques will and won't work for him and so the growth of the number of techniques at this point in his path is rather low-- but very efficient. However in my opinion, most people closer to the beginning of their path will benefit from being exposed to lots of techniques early on in order to stimulate their thinking and to give them a menu from which to select the diet that works best for them. Concomitantly, serious tool and attribute work MUST be done! Without this, all is a delusion! It must be said that many do not wish to do the research necessary to having an opinion or maybe they have limited time to invest. These may benefit from a more pre-digested approach. This is not an insult or condescension. We all have areas in life where such is the better approach. My Cindy knows better than to turn me loose figuring things out on my computer. A pre-digested "Do this!" is definitely the better approach for her to take with me-- mine is not to reason why, mine is to do what I'm told or die at her hands ;-) If I may add a personal note here, I regard myself as a jack of all trades fighter. I started martial arts at 30, and stickfighting with Eric at 34 or 35. I broke my knee (snapped three ligaments) at 40 and lost two years. My hand speed is below average, my foot speed is well below average,, my reflexes are average, my durability is below average, my power is only a bit above average and less than that of many fighters. My only pluses are that my timing is above average, as is my genetic predisposition to ambidexterity and I think I have a pretty good analytic eye. Overall, a very ordinary package! What I regard as indispensable to my growth as a fighter is all the nights under Guro Inosanto's eye at the Inosanto Academy training with the other students. All those drills developing coordination, all those nights doing sombrada on the scrimmage line with some 15-20 people of good level, all those technique sequences, all his talks and stories about the different teachers he has trained with, all the times he has beaten me up in sparring, all this and more have given me fountain of training experience and an encyclopedia of FMA knowledge from which to draw in developing my own expression and my understanding not only of what I am trying to do, but of what my opponent is trying to do and what its strengths and weaknesses are. With all this to draw upon as I "research my own experience". I can see what my opponents potential weak links are and have a tactics, techniques, skills, and tools in my bag that can often break it. As Sugar Ray Leonard said before his fight with M.Marvin Hagler, "You don't beat the man, you beat his style." which is really the same thing as Bruce Lee's "Having no way as way". ------------------------------ From: Ken Kinnan Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:36:41 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #431 At 01:43 PM 10/14/99 -0700, you wrote: >From: John Frankl >Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 11:38:58 -0400 (EDT) >Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #430 > >Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 21:50:55 EDT >Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #427 > >from: leighans@aol.com > >nietzche applies to the physical as well...if you survive, hopefully you >learned something....stupidity is the only unforgivable sin in nature...it >is >also self corrective" > >Not really. And even if it is so, since you mentioned nature, let's get >Darwinian. You may have corrected your stupidity by losing an arm or >having your knee torn up, but it doesn't matter. You will be the limping, >week, crippled critter that is always culled from the herd. Why are you so desperate to prove that only people with physical ability are worth anything? ------------------------------ From: abass@iname.com Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 18:43:49 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Computer Drill Program input How about some feedback on a current project of mine? One of the things about solo practice that annoys me is always knowing what move is coming next. It's kinda tough to catch yourself offguard, you know? With a partner, you can practice disarms and drill against random angles of attack depending on what your partner feels like throwing at you. I like this type of practice better because even staged as it is, there is a moment in which you must make a decision about what you see coming at you and what you want to do about it. By yourself, you already know what's coming and your response cannot be spontaneous. With that in mind, I've begun writing a computer program that will let me react spontaneously without a human partner. It started as a small thing that would throw angles at me randomly so that I could react with the correct (for my level of training) disarm. As I've begun writing it, however, more and more seems possible. I don't anticipate that the program will be of much use to advanced FMA practitioners, but for us beginners, I think it will prove very helpful. I've taken digital photos of a player with two sticks. The photos include 12 angles of attack (current Inosanto 12) with strikes from both hands. There are also about 5 photos of various chambered positions. The final product will allow you to make mini-movies (kind of) of an opponet throwing attacks at you. You will be able to create your own sequences (heaven 6, abcedarios, 10 angle ones and then 10 angle twos, etc.) or let the program generate random sequences. You will be able to specify the delay between strikes and the duration of the drill. Drill sequences will be saved so you can run several one after another of just one at a time. So what do you think? As practitioners, what would make this program useful to you or your students? ashley ------------------------------ From: LeighanS@aol.com Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 20:03:40 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #431 from: leighans@aol.com ahh....you are very short sighted....if you lost your arm and lived...use it as a learning experience......if you cant turn that into something positive, then just curl up and die and let another life form benefit from your misuse of opportunity.....since you want to get darwinian, remember...adapt or die...pure and simple....this is why we study and practice our arts and other endeavors.....if it works, we keep it...if not, we either make it work or it goes to the scrap heap (concept sound familiar there?).....and if we cant get along with just one arm, then it is our duty to our species to die....obviously there are numerous examples of such people who have been able to adapt and keep going...my hat is off to them because they adapted and overcame....quitters never win (and you know how to finish this one) ------------------------------ From: abass@iname.com Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 21:08:04 -0400 Subject: Re: eskrima: Video Website > A short while back, someone had posted a site that had a variety of > Kali/escrima/arnis video clips and information. Does anyone still have > that link? thanks Steve That was probably my site. http://www.geocities.com/athens/pantheon/5640 over 50 links to video clips, animated gifs, diagrams and photos, and text about and demonstrating techniques of FMA. ashley ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ All the busy little creatures Chasing out their destinies Living in their pools They soon forget about the sea... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~N.P.~~~ ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 19:21:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: enough is too much... Ok folks... Time to take the Nietzche, Darwin, missing arms, related thread to private email. No more. Thanks. Ray Terry rterry@best.com ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #432 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.