From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #436 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Sun, 17 Oct 1999 Vol 06 : Num 436 In this issue: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #435 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #435 eskrima: re: Slow boxing and few strikes eskrima: Distinctions without a difference eskrima: Full Contact Training eskrima: Igorot Head Axe, Bow and Arrows eskrima: Re: More on Inosanto book eskrima: 3-D Bruce Lee eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #435 eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Carlton H. Fung, D.D.S." Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 08:39:23 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #435 > In the Hermsoa clan we have a modality called "No Wind". >Woof, >Guro Crafty Marc, Don't you also believe that this no wind state is the beginning of understanding power generation? >From: Rocky Pasiwk >The wise OLD Crafty one wrote: > >> conversation where the ever loquacious Rocky will usually chime in with >> something about JKDC and talk about how few well-honed tools and techniques >> he has and how his former JKDC trained students are blinded by his >> brilliance >IMHO I think instructors over the years have failed their >students, by creating arts that are so vast and complex, that the >students become a walking encyclopedia of knowledge, most of which they >can't execute properly. Just keep it simple. Like I said in my earlier >post, the Bruce Lee fighting methods are about the best books I have >ever read on fighting, they are what I think Bruce was striving for, >simplicity and effectiveness. > Which is all the more reason not >to bombard someone with to many techniques. Rock, This is not the point of JKD anyway. It is far from an accumulated mess. Its goal is to take the mess and trim one's learning time by making nice little boxes (concepts) for which each item can fit in a neat tidy box. Thus you have JKD and it's overriding concepts and then as a subset you have the tools of YOUR JKD. If you look at your JKD/c students you will find common concepts in approach to problem solving but different modes of execution. JKD then becomes confusing to those not part of the system. JKD people always train thier basics but keep adding tools to improve the arsenal but only with a deeper understanding and execution of the concepts too. Therein lies the statment "absorb what is useful" from SiGung Lee. If you can't use the tool put it away. But don't forget it one day you may mature into it as you aptly stated in your post...sometimes it just comes out. Regards, carl ------------------------------ From: AnimalMac@aol.com Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 12:48:18 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #435 In a message dated 10/17/99 8:17:47 AM Mountain Daylight Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << ( and I don't know how to prove this to people. other than to tell them to go to the worst part of town and put your skills to the test) >> and that is a recommendation I most definately say "I wouldn't do that if I were you." The nasty nasties out there aren't interested in proving or disproving the effectivenss of their art. It's real time out there in the bad parts of town and that means they use tools - which means you can and will bleed. In addition I have a serious problem with the idea of martial artists going out and looking for fights. There is a word for that: sadism. I have seen people who do this and l can tell you that they are very selective about their victims. Sorry folks going into a bar and picking a fight with the weakest and least popular guy there isn't proving your art. It's bullying and abusing. Furthermore, and this one is my main snarls on this issue, going into an area, beating someone up and then leaving doesn't prove anything. Try staying there for a month or two and let the guy come back looking for revenge -- odds are it will be with reinforcements or tools. Beating people up doesn't prove anything except that the martial artist who is picking a fight is very cautious about victim and location selection. While I have seen that kind of behavior in neighborhood pool halls, I have never seen it in places were you go through metal detectors at the door. ------------------------------ From: "Sovann D. Pen" Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 18:22:02 EDT Subject: eskrima: re: Slow boxing and few strikes Another thing that slowing things down can improve is timing. Sparring at 25 to 50% often doesn't last long because the single hit doesn't work at that speed, someone ends up getting frustrated and speeds up to sneak a shot in. You really have to throw combinations and PIA. It also has helped me with balance and body mechanics. Sovann NW Karate for Christ ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 15:39:26 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Distinctions without a difference A Howl etc: Rocky wrote: > But > here's where I think you can't figure out where I am coming from, > wouldn't it have been nice if your instructor would have explained it to > you as you learned it. So that time could be better spent. Now before > you on a tangent about giving everything to your students and not > allowing them to discover for themselves, I'll agree that a student > needs to learn creativity, but there are other ways to do that than > constantly adding this that and the other, what was it your main man > said "a classical mess" Well what's the different between a "Classical > Mess" and an "Accumulated Mess" they are both messes!! As Rock observed with his thoughts on PT versus MA, albeit a bit less succinctly, there is training for short, middle and long term benefit. Explaining everything has short term benefit, but long term cost in terms of thinking ability. I don't think anyone is advocating "constantly adding this that and the other", my point was that IN THE BEGINNING it is a good thing for people to be exposed to a range of material to help them be aware of what their options are as they decide specifically what they will begin emphasizing for themselves. > IMHO in the > beginning keep it simple and effective work the body mechanics, make > sure students know the difference between being connected and not being > connected, give basic, but effective fundamentals that build proper body > mechanics. No disagreement here. Indeed, in DBMA we call our first strike "the caveman", and the first tape of the DB vids was how to do four power strikes well. >Cause lets not forget that while Bruce was always looking to > simplify, he did have a classical back ground with certain basic > fundamentals that created his power and understanding of mechanics. > Then when he reached a fairly high level of effectiveness, he began to > add more by making his art less. Exactly. > And as far as making a statue, would you rather chisel that > sculpture from a rock from the mountain, or a mountain of rocks. Ultimately, a distinction without a difference. The point of the "rock-to-statue" analogy (one needs material with which to work) was as clear as the fact that Rock's sentence is a question even though it ends with a period. ;-) >We all > need to find our way through the paths I just feel that out of common > courtesy you should try to clear the path as much as possible for the > guys behind you. I would quibble here with the idea that there is one path for all, or of finding a way "through the paths", rather it is about each finding his own path. I suspect Rocky agrees-- he's founded his own system. Perhaps it is just the lack of a "classical background" with the English language that leads to his imprecision of expression? In closing, I note that Rocky opened his post with: >Well where do I start, as most of you know we have this conversation at >least once a year. No doubt we'll get bored with it one of these days. ;-) >First Crafty, as you know I usually agree with you. Indeed and agreed. Woof, Crafty PS: For the record: My "main man" is not Bruce Lee. It is Guro Inosanto. ------------------------------ From: Chad Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 16:34:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Full Contact Training In regards to Toby's question about sparring at 80-90% with sticks and Crafty Dog's response: The way we started the full contact sparring was with heavy fencing mask from Kombat Instruments, two hard elbow pads, two knee pads and either hockey or WEKAF gloves. After that, as you feel you get ready for it, and if you want to, take off this and that or lighten your gear. I now fight with a lighter mask and one modified hockey glove. Another fighter took off his left elbow pad and left glove, etc., etc. It is as you are ready. No one can tell you what you are doing wrong or right because it is only you that takes the hit. Someone can tell you how they get in on you or tell you that you might want to try this or that but that is as far as it goes. Sparring is not for everyone. It is not a way to LEARN the FMA. It is a way to find out what you're doing wrong after you have developed a high level of basics. Remember, sparring with padded sticks or heavy equiptment is VERY VERY different than the real thing. Sparring with mimimum equiptment and heavy sticks is still different, but gets closer. Also, there is a difference between a stickfight with a skilled fighter and self defense. Get the Burt Richardson Straight Blast Gym Weaponry tape and learn some really good full contact drills. Crafty also has the "No wind" sparring which is a different level of sparring. Each level will cultivate a different attribute. Full contact pretty much cultivates the understanding of power and need of understanding and controlling the ranges. Controlled contact(No wind) cultivates sharpening your basics. And the good old drills and basic deflections are what gives you the basics and the body mechanics. DBMA basically gave a reality check saying that like in the old days where you were forced to learn the real way, nowadays you have to force yourself to realize the truths and "force" yourself to learn the hard way. You have to take the steps of progression though. BTW, when we spar, we go 100% and just hold back on the fatal blows. No deliberate hits to back of the head or spine. We have all been injured here and wear the battle scars proudly. You would be suprised at what the human body can take, and occasionally on what it can't or shouldn't. Even though it's no winners and no losers, you know when you "win" or "loose" in a sense. Just realize that it is only a form of training. You find out what you need to work on. Anyways, train safely and protect yourself. P.S. So there is no confusion, I am in no way associated with DBMAA or been involved with any functions, other than the fact to have been able to catch a few drops of knowledge and realization from DBMA tape series. Although I would like to say thanks to Crafty Dog, Top Dog and DBMAA for tilting the bucket of water so that others can get a drink. ===== "Draw me not without reason, sheath me not without honor" Chad Hawaii __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Jivita@aol.com Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 19:57:15 EDT Subject: eskrima: Igorot Head Axe, Bow and Arrows Anyone out there familiar with what the value of an Igorot Bow and Arrows set might be in good condition? I recently acquired a set that included a Head Axe. Head axes I'm familiar with. Bows and arrows I'm not. Thanks. The set comes with 1 bow 4 arrows and 2 spears (fishing/hunting falfegs, not war). Please reply privately. Thanks. Jim Lowe jivita@aol.com ------------------------------ From: Joe Marszalek Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 17:10:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Re: More on Inosanto book I wish Guro Dan would reprint the book as well as some others he has tried to complete over the last few years. If he could get some printed I know Amazon does sale books for independent publishers. Guro Dan could actually sale it through Amazon.com. That would be great. Sincerely, Joe Marszalek ===== Martial Arts Koncepts -- http://home.earthlink.net/~makoncept Need your home or office PCs networked - Pittsburgh Home Network Connection http://members.home.net/cyber13 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Joe Marszalek Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 17:16:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: 3-D Bruce Lee I just found a 3D Bruce Lee video clip on the web. I posted it at the Martial Arts Koncepts site under the links page. http://home.earthlink.net/~makoncept In one cut they show logos on the back wall. JKD, Muay Thai, and Bukti Negara. It looks like who ever made it knows what arts Guro Dan trains in. Sincerely, Joe Marszalek ===== Martial Arts Koncepts -- http://home.earthlink.net/~makoncept Need your home or office PCs networked - Pittsburgh Home Network Connection http://members.home.net/cyber13 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: "Steven Drape" Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 17:36:29 PDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #435 >... intricate stick fighting art that is designed to turn you into an >Eskrimador, with the assumption that you will always be fighting another >Eskrimador of equal or superior skills, .... I describe eskrima as really being two different Arts (not styles!). The first one is what I call self-defense eskrima. This is the method that many people learn where the block/check/hit pattern is used, with lots of disarms, locks, etc. thrown in. This method only works against an untrained opponent trying to hit you with a wrench (or 2x4, or crowbar, etc.). His lack of training with the weapon allows you to block and perhaps disarm or tie him up in some way. The second method is what I call the Art of eskrima-for- eskrimadors. Here, the student isn't taught disarms as being separate from the flow, you don't learn locks as something to try for, you only recognize that a block might occur during the flow but that you had better be on the way to something else or you will get nailed, etc. The second method of training allows the practitioner to fight other eskrimadors, and along the way also leads to self-defense. Unfortunately, it is not the method most students are taught. As Rocky points out, it is a shame that today's teachers are propagating the part of eskrima that has the least long-term value. Steve ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 18:00:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #436 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.