From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #444 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Sat, 23 Oct 1999 Vol 06 : Num 444 In this issue: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #442 eskrima: Breaking wind eskrima: Pekiti-Tirsia foot fighting eskrima: in search of instruction eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #443 eskrima: books eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BENRBRAUN@aol.com Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 11:59:54 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #442 This modern-day "foot-vollyball" that many have seen practised by South-East Asian cultures is about as far removed from combat as is the game played by "Haky-Sakers" on college campuses all over the world. Although the majority of kicking techniques that are observed when watching a hacky-sack circle are the same kicks practised by silat and kali exponents, I bet the 'hacky-sackers' and 'shuttle-cockers' have no clue. To be sure both require the development of fluid and precise footwork and kicking that would be a benefit to any martial artist, but most who play either game would be hard pressed to describe it's origins. Whether some Filipino game was adapted by warriors for training, or some warrior training technique turned into a game is an evolution lost to antiquity. The truth is that Filipino warriors did train with this method. Oh, by the way, someone wrote that they thought that Aboriginal Americans played hacky-sack. Nope, different game. Aboriginal Americans made hard rubber/wood balls and would kick the ball forward to pass the time while travelling by foot. Aboriginal Australians do the same thing. ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 10:11:25 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Breaking wind A Howl etc: Doc F inquired: >> In the Hermosa clan we have a modality called "No Wind". >Marc, >Don't you also believe that this no wind state is the beginning of >understanding power generation? Interesting question. I confess I hadn't thought of this aspect, but my first reaction is that someone in No Wind training who breaks wind has a tendency to stink , , , ;-). Seriously now, it is possible to do No Wind and still have poor power generation, but such a person will tend to flow poorly in combination. If he does the training against someone who flows well in combination he will tend to do poorly and in the search for better results may well begin to understand and confront something within himself that will begin to open the door to power even thought the training is, by definition, devoid of power. Woof, Crafty PS: Salty made some noise in a recent phone call about posting on the subject of how the Santa Fe clan gets ready. Arlan? ------------------------------ From: Loki Jorgenson Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 11:18:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Pekiti-Tirsia foot fighting I was asked off-line if I could comment further on Steve's description of a foot fighting drill he saw me doing with guro Philip (see below). Unfortunately, this is an exercise best seen, especially if you want to pick up all the variations. But I'll try to elaborate a bit (or at least until it gets too complicated). Maybe Philip could comment on its source - I've only ever seen it in the context of Pekiti-Tirsia and learned it from him. So it's P-T as far as I know. On the other hand, Nate Defensor's recent description of kid's footbag games originating in Bacolod City suggests that this may be one possible origin - P-T is native to Negros Occidental (GT Gaje lives in Bacolod). As Steve described, the drill is done by facing each other at corto range and then kicking lightly with the inner edge of each foot, alternating left and right by hopping slightly to do a foot replacement, hitting your partner's inner foot low and near the center between you. One step of this cycle drill done in isolation resembles the Jun Fan JKD intercepting kick (jeet tek) - if both opponents are left lead, and one tries to kick with, say for example, the back/right leg straight at his opponent's shin, his opponent would bring his right/rear foot up using its inside edge (by turning the hips out towards the right) to stop the motion of attacking foot/leg by jamming it at the lower shin. Got that picture? Should be familiar to a lot of people. Another option of course would be use the outside edge of the rear foot by turning the hips out to the left (or probably faster, using the outside edge of the front/left foot by just lifting it - but we want to stick with right-to-right for this description). So this drill trains the timing, foot placement and agility for this kind of stop kick (or other applications). Very hacky sack like (I often contemplated training more hacky sack simply because of the attributes it offers). It starts out with both people standing fairly close and throwing the right foot as if a stop kick, hitting both their (right) feet together in the middle (lightly). They quickly shift weight, almost hopping, to the right foot and throw the left in. This is done with a regular beat of about 1.5 to 2 kicks per second, alternating right and left. - it can be done slower but it doesn't really work as an exercise. This is the basic drill and fairly easy to do - it's kind of fun and can be quite cardio. From here I'll refer to the variants off the right foot and turning to the left but the opposite works too. First variation - instead of using the inside edge of the right foot, use the outside edge. This requires turning the hips out to the left so that the right outside edge of your foot meets the right inside edge of your opponent (or his outside edge if he has also done this). On the very next beat, you are back to using the inside edge of the left foot. You can throw this single outside edge with either left or right but you have to return to inside edge on the other foot on the next beat. OK - not so hard - I'll throw in the next variation to give you and idea of where this is going: So, suppose you have thrown the inside left, then swung over and thrown the outside right (let's assume your opponent is sticking to just inside-edge kicks), *instead* of turning your hips back out to throw another inside left, turn your hips a little further out to the left, put your right down across centre and throw the left *behind* your right leg using the ball of the foot (now turned almost backwards) to stop his left kick. Sort of a rear foot chicken step but you never put it down. Then to recover, you reverse yourself, following the backward left with another outside right (turning the hips back towards the right) and finally back to starting position with an inside left. Resume the basic pattern. Through all this you are maintaining the regular beat, your opponent just throwing alternating right and left inside edge kicks. Since any left kick can be met with any other left kick, both people can break from the basic pattern to do variants independently. There are several other variants, including a full 360 degree rotation, kicking backwards and sideways as you go. With both people running the variants, the results can look quite complex even though the underlying pattern is very regular (right/ left). Sort of sombrada for the feet. And then the hands get involved.... I'd be happy to show this to anyone in person - it would probably take five minutes to show all the foot variants and then however long to work up the dexterity to play it free-form. Hope this helps those interested. P.S. Ray - when does the digest get a video feed? ::Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Fri, 22 Oct 1999 Vol 06 : Num 441 :: ::From: SReiter000@aol.com ::Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 01:42:28 EDT ::Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #439 :: ::interesting - i saw guro phil gelinas (of original DB famed, mataasna guro ::pekiti, guro inosanto blend ect.ect.ect) and guro loki jorgenson (same fame ::although not orig. DB but one now) doing a drill (i think from sikaran) where ::they where facing each other and in a hackey sack fashion kick each other ::feet at the same time (rt to rt, lf to lt) then spin clock wise and counter ::clockwise - in unison and unilaterally - it was one of the most impressive ::thing i've ever seen - the timing and coordination involved in staggering - :: ::Steve Reiter -- - -- 'gards, /\ Pekiti-Tirsia kali / \ silat Jati Wisesa Loki Jorgenson < MANOyBASTON Martial Arts > / __ \ Dog Brothers MA loki@pekiti-tirsia.org (604) 254-0240 / _L \ Majapahit Empire www.pekiti-tirsia.org/ManoBaston/ /________\ (Inosanto-IMAIA) ------------------------------ From: Nolan Hernandez Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 13:41:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: in search of instruction Hello fellow escrimadors, I currently live in Oklahoma City and I'm in search of a certified JKD instructor who could instruct me in the Inosanto Blend of Kali and the Silat arts. There used to be a JKD school nearby 'Spartan's Martial Arts' headed by a Guro Michael Parker but his school has long been closed now. Any information that you could provide me would be most appreciated. Maraming salamat! Sincerely, Nolan S. Hernandez ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: BENRBRAUN@aol.com Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 18:35:07 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #443 In a message dated 10/23/99 9:36:54 AM Eastern Daylight Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Be warned-- don't get this book if you are looking for anything technical. It glosses over about 100 varieties of Silat, Kuntao and other similar arts but there aren't enough techniques to start off a whitebelt. >> I agree. Although I am able to recognize some of the techniques in this book, it is obvious that none of them could be learned from the book. This makes me wonder if there is a book or could be a book from which to learn silat and I'd have to say no way. There is no way that the fluidity and economy of motion, and in general the gestalt that is silat could be accurately represented in still photography and accompanying text. I should qualify this statement by saying that with previous pencak silat training there is a possibility (very slim) to learn new techniques from a book. The problem is that pencak silat is generally short on techniques. There are some that would emphatically disagree and to them I say 'hear me out.' As many of you will know, the fundamentals, the alphabet if you will, of each true pencak silat system is in the jurus (beware of those claiming to teach pencak-silat without the jurus). There are generally less than twenty jurus in a system and I would say less than fifty individual movements total. Of course this is an oversimplification. The point I'm trying to make is that you could possibly learn each of these movements in a very short time without having any idea of the APPLICATIONS. If someone knows all the jurus but has no idea how to fight you can't say he knows pencak-silat. In other words don't bother trying to LEARN pencak silat from a book; there is no way. To paraphrase a great jazz musician, "writing about pencak-silat is like interpretive dancing about architecture!" ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 18:09:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: books << Be warned-- don't get this book if you are looking for anything technical. It glosses over about 100 varieties of Silat, Kuntao and other similar arts but there aren't enough techniques to start off a whitebelt. >> Who would be silly enough to attempt to learn techniques from a book? Books are for concepts, history, cultural background, overviews, etc. NOT techniques. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 18:14:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #444 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.