From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #463 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Tues, 2 Nov 1999 Vol 06 : Num 463 In this issue: eskrima: Re: IPSI eskrima: Re: knife twirling eskrima: Diary of a Mad Stickfighter preparing for Sante Fe, NM eskrima: Knife Fighting Seminar eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #462 eskrima: Carrying knives eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mushtaq Ali Shah Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 08:24:10 -0900 Subject: eskrima: Re: IPSI As a quick addendum to my last post on the subject, I did a little checking and Pak Herman Swanda of Pencak Silat Mande Muda has been (and may perhaps still be) an official representative for IPSI in the US. I do not know if he still holds an official title but he is well known and respected by Pak Eddy Nalapraya and Pak O'ong, the heads of IPSI. Also, Mande Muda is almost always well represented at IPSI tournaments so he would be someone who could be contacted, I would imagine, for anyone in the US interested on participating in such. Wasalam, Mushtaq Ali Shah ------------------------------ From: Ted Truscott Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 09:23:48 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Re: knife twirling I've been twirling my knife since the late 80's due to Animal's influence but the drill I like the most and teach is Keating's. He calls the move where you let the handle of a forward pointing tip slide between the grip of the fingers back into a reverse grip a 'spin' and the move where the knife walks between the fingers like Animal describes as a 'twirl.' The combo: (all slashes are half moon type) in a forward grip slash defensively across your front in a circular manner, then do a spin as you come low across your front and slash same slash in reverse then reverse that same line with the tip leading, in a half moon backhand thrust (or block); spin again into point forward and thrust in low, pull back and twirl as you lift your hand up to shoulder height to stab down into neck wth a hammer grip. I always always repeat this is not a fighting drill but only a dexterity and knife orientation drill. Ted Truscott "the fighting old man" ------------------------------ From: Eric Knaus Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 08:45:09 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Diary of a Mad Stickfighter preparing for Sante Fe, NM These are some of the thoughts that go through my head as I prepare for the Sante Fe NM Invitational hosted by Arlan "Salty Dog" Sanford: How does one go about training for this event? A little background first - there are only 8 fighters all of whom are members of the Dog Brother tribe, except for Englishman Richard Killick, so it is a well seasoned group. All have a good grappling back ground which means that at 7,000 feet after one or two tough ground matches you are likely to be pretty winded. There are 2 days of fighting, with a minimum of 5 fights per fighter per day. This may sound like a lot because, well, it is; but it's actually quite possible - the last time we did this (June, '99) we each averaged 8 fights/day over 3 days. The fighters themselves come in a varitey of body girths and lengths. Recently, here have been several posts regarding the training preferences that different stick fighters put themselves through and someday I'll post mine ;-) but before I go into a training mode for a particular event, I will try to know who I'm training for and look for any tendencies on their part that I might want to exploit or avoid. As some of you may know, I have a hobby of handreading and sometimes even sneak a peak at their hands before a match. In this event, I am fortunate enough to know each person by having fought them or seen them fight. Below are the fighters who are coming to the Sante Fe, NM Sessions (all are from the Santa Fe and Hermosa clans of the Dog Brothers, plus one Englishman) and my fighting experiences and evaluations of them. Richard Killick from England: Heads the size list at 6'6" and 240lbs. and reminds me a lot of David Wink - really nice guy but without the crazed inward spiral mad scientist look in his eyes. I fought Richard two Gatherings ago and I have to give the guy credit for standing toe to toe while I let rip a few power back hands at his head which for the most part he handled. He hadn't rounded out his game on the ground yet and when we went there he was out of his element. I hear this has changed, unfortunately, and that he's gotten bigger so I have no idea what to expect from him this time around. I would like to see him unload a few strong power type shots of his own this time around - not on me though, someone else, like Jeff or Mike F. Jeff "Sleeping Dog" Inman - This is another 6'+ 200lbs fighter, ectomorphic and is one of 4 fighters representing the Sante Fe Clan (who, by the way, have an unfair advantage already being at that altitude). Jeff's style is very much like Arlan's in that he will tend to bait you into swinging and then counter strike. At least that's what he did with everyone else. With me he kept throwing forehand bombs (he's left handed by the way) and next to Arlan, he has the best check hand I've had to deal with-- as well as a nice drift shot to the knee. Whenever I visit Sante Fe, it always seems as though Jeff and I close down the place and last June was no exception. In one of our exchanges, I thought I had him dead to rights by charging right at his chest behind a flying roof block which I usually follow up with a thrust to the mid section (Phillip "Sled Dog" Gelinas does this move better than anyone by the way). Next thing I know, I'm eating the front part on my fencing mask like a defensive line man being stiff armed by Earl Campbell. This was promptly followed up by a shot to the left side of my jaw - which still hurts by the way Jeff, and don't think I've forgiven you either. Arlan Sanford - What can one say about the legendary Salty Dog? 1 - He's very strong (former power lifter currently benching over 450lbs.) 2 - he hits very hard 3- he feels little pain We have fought so many times that we know each other's game only too well and I know that if you let him, he will buffalo you around the field and force you to engage. Last time he did this to me I felt so coralled that I tried to charge to get him to back up some - unfortunately, I slipped out of the gate (I was barefoot) and in the process of keeping my balance I had to stick my left hand up which he promptly whacked. It was only the 2nd time I can remember having to stop fighting as result of a hit. Later, my chiropractor shook his head and then smacked my head (he's part Italian) and told me that my fingers were broken and why the hell don't I do something normal like golf? Things not to do with this guy: 1 - don't stand toe to toe (got that Richard K.) because not only will he not feel what you're dishing out, but in addition to his stick, he also has a very good Muy Thai kick 2 - Don't be cute or fancy, Arlan is a very steady, patient fighter and will stalk if you flitter around and is always chambered for a power forehand/caveman type of strike. As an illustration of his pachydermian archetype, one of my pet moves is to drop real low and strike at the knee with a back hand which for the most part it works 3 out of 10 times (good odds by the way) against most fighters except him. On a defining moment, years ago in Long Beach, CA, I had manuvered him just so and dove in for "the shot" and remember seeing the trajectory of my stick headed full force right for the side of his knee. I remember thinking - in an evil way - "Got him!" and then at the moment of impact I saw and felt the stick break where it hit ... and he was unaffected. The last thing I remember was trying to jump back and then seeing his stick as it came straight down on my head. Fortunately, the video captured the rest but can't be released until we're both dead. Mike "Rain Dog" Florimbi: Mike is another Sante Fe native but relocated to Santa Barbara, CA a few years ago. He is also another one of those stick fighters who really embraced BJJ - in fact, as I understand it, he operates a BJJ school there and trains everyday with the black belts. Unfortuately, this means that his ground game is very strong and that his inclination will be to close early and at 7,000 feet, like I said, you are going to be good for about 2 tough ones and you're spent. A new wrinkle that Mike put in his game that last couple of outings has been to play the off-lead (placing the non-stick hand's foot forward e.g. a right handed fighter with the left foot forward) and have the stick in a forehand chamber very low to the ground. Anytime a fighter comes within range, he will swing with a strong diagonal uppercut, which, if it hits the hand, often hits the thumb (That bloody thumb shot with the nail knocked backwards that you can see on our webpage is from Arlan doing this to Marc the first time they met). It's a "dare" posture it is similar to the Caveman - by that I mean they are daring you try and bridge the gap past the loaded Sunday Punch. I saw Mike use this technique a few Gatherings ago and was surprised how well he was able to dictate the energy of the match. Personally, I'm opposed to any type of static stance that broadcasts what you're up to because the opponent knows where the strike HAS to come from if it is chambered for very long. Granted, there are variations of how to "unchamber" quickly and with different angles of attack but the bottom line is that when you're being rushed something that isn't direct will get you into trouble. If you find yourself in a static habit, the Caveman (or the Low Caveman a la Mike F.) can keep most players at bay but only as long as they think you can hurt them with it. I mentioned to Mike in June that I was looking forward to facing his new and impressive technique (this came more under the heading of a taunt that was thinly disguised as admiration). Anyway, I don't think he bought it because the moment he went to that stance, he would switch out of it just as I would gear up for my attack (we're talking about 1 to 4 seconds). Good sensitivity on his part and the right way to play it. Marc "Crafty Dog" Denny - I'm not sure how to approach this because Marc and I have known each other for so long that there are no mysteries between us regarding training techniques, fighting styles, etc. Marc will be the first one to tell you how old he is (and although it does not look like it, it is true) that he is not the swiftest, strongest, quickest, most powerful and on and on - boy, does that sound like a set up or what?! Yet when I was retired for two years and Arlan was not able to show up at the Gatherings either for the same time period, he carried the flag for the Dog Brothers all alone and the tribe flourished. As with most of the fighters there, he is a very good grappler (purple with the Machados) and has a very nice technical closing game, but usually waits till softening his opponent a bit before coming in. (contrast the insta-crash and burn of, say, Mike Blake.) Typically, he will stalk and probe you from the outside, circling and then suddenly closing with a hard shot and then out again. With the ambidexterity of his siniwali game, he changes leads very fluidly and playing a closing game on him the way I used to do will be hard because of the footwork he uses to support his double stick. He will be fighting in Sante Fe mostly with double stick and either the 4' or 5' staff. We haven't fought in several years and it should be interesting. Having trained with him a lot for this event, I have come to appreciate how empowering a sturdy staff can be in the right hands. While blending on the beach at sunset last week (yes, southern California does have its perks) me with a stick, him with a staff, a thought crossed my mind of how out-gunned I was in that match up-- especially with the fluidity with which he handled it. After a few sessions, he jokingly commented how he enjoyed keeping me at a distance, "I like this!" he said grinning. His staff has improved a lot this year and when I asked him about it several months ago, he told me it was because Danny Inosanto had beaten the snot out of him several times. I know he, Arlan and Chris plan on going staff vs staff, I haven't decided whether I want to go sticks vs staff yet - if so, it would have to be with double sticks - and some meaty ones at that - otherwise I'm going to get my skull crushed. Dog Mike Blake - Mike is another long ectomorphic type and very athletic. Recently, he competed in Allen Sachetti's "World" ;-) Championship (whatever) on the east coast and won the stick fighting in his division and placed second in the grappling section. You'd think he'd want to talk about winning the stick fighting divsion but all he talked about was the grappling - ergo, another strong grappler with a stick in his hand. The last time I fought with Mike was almost 2 years ago in Sante Fe and we did not go to the ground. I don't think I will be that fortunate this time around as the pattern with strong grapplers is not to engage the weapon but to shoot past it and get to the ground asap. I have a feeling that he will play the perimeter the way Dog Jim Kelly did at the most recent Gathering trying to bait me to do something risky (read "foolish") and then shoot in for the BJJ mode. Of all the fighters I will face next week, he is the one I am approaching with the most apprehension because I know that if/when we go to the ground, it will be an exhausting dog fight. Added to that, he has that Man-on-a-Mission energy about him being at the lighter end of the size meter. There have been recent posts about how size and strength matter and to a point this is true but skill and ferocity are such equalizers that, at this level, size will not be that much of a factor. One of my strategies going in is to get him to go with Mike Florimbi and Arlan first to wear him down - or maybe get him really drunk the night before, hmm ..... Chris "True Dog" Clifton - The newest member and therefore the most unknown. I watched Chris fight at the last Gathering with the staff and was very impressed. I also heard about his strong performance in a recent stick fight in the ring against a 50 lb larger opponent - gotta like that! Physically, Chris will be one of the smallest there (a mere 180lbs), but this newest Dog Brother is not inclined to back down or skitter about. Next Post - How to train for these guys. Bark, Eric "Top Dog" Knaus ------------------------------ From: David Fulton Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 11:56:14 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Knife Fighting Seminar Hi! Just a reminder about our upcoming seminar with Dr. David Wink, on November 13th. Where: Central Maryland Martial Arts Frederick, Maryland When: Saturday November 13, 1999 from 10am to 5 pm. How much: $30 ($20 for police & military) Contact me for more info or to pre-register. This will be a great seminar, so don't miss out!! Dave Fulton dfulton@computerpackages.com Full Contact Martial Arts Association "As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another." ------------------------------ From: AnimalMac@aol.com Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 13:07:56 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #462 In a message dated 11/2/99 8:45:22 AM Mountain Standard Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << What about those of us with only 5 fingers? >> Oops...see why I always failed math? :D ------------------------------ From: "Kevin Davis" Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 14:33:39 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Carrying knives >I wonder how many of the list members who so openly "boast" about carrying >knives and their willingness to use them (can't have one without the >other!), would instantly choose this option (brainwashed through repitition >of technique) at the slightest provocation... I don't know whether I agree. I have been carrying a handgun on my side for pretty much my entire adult life (either on or off-duty). Although I have pointed a firearm (handgun, shotgun, submachine gun or carbine) at over one thousand people over the years, I don't find myself automatically drawing my gun and shooting at the hint of trouble. The analogy, I think, is that the more we train (properly): #1 - We are "tuned in" and more alert to trouble thus avoiding same. #2 - We have multiple options in case of trouble. #3 - We reduce the effects of stress because we are use to dynamic events. #4 - Our performance is better than an untrained person thus we are more effective. Will a BJJ player automatically break an elbow regardless of the situation? Will a silat player automatically break a neck when it's not called for? Steinbeck's quote, "the mind is the ultimate weapon all else is supplemental," rings true here. Having said the above, we must still understand that by and large the knife is still looked upon as a thug's weapon by the court. It will regardless of the amount of damage you inflict upon your assailant be looked upon as "deadly force." Therefore, deadly force is only allowed when you fear your assailant is going to cause you or another death or "serious bodily harm." I would think that multiple assailants because of the "disparity of force" you face constitutes a deadly threat against you. *Rorion Gracie wrote an excellent series on facing multiple attackers in Inside Kung-fu. If you are charged because you used a knife to defend your life or the life of another, it is up to you and your attorney to prove to the court (using expert testimony if necessary) that the use of the knife was necessary and within the scope of the law. I tell my off-duty coppers that they are probably going to need intermediate weapons (OC spray or tactical baton) off-duty more than they will need a handgun. If they don't have anything else it comes down to being able to punch someone or shoot them... For most people the carrying of a small tactical folder is the highest force option they can legally carry. It should not be the only option (over-riding all else including empty hands). They must, however, learn when it is legally justifiable. KD ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 15:18:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #463 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.