From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #468 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Fri, 5 Nov 1999 Vol 06 : Num 468 In this issue: eskrima: Instructors/Schools in Tucson eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #467 eskrima: "Cheating" at Kali??? eskrima: Re: Frame of Reference, Self Defense eskrima: Re: Massad Ayoob eskrima: Re: training sticks eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #467 eskrima: self defense with a knife Re: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #467 eskrima: Re: "Steven Drape" slash and burn eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Larry McClure Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 08:31:28 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Instructors/Schools in Tucson Hello out there in FMA land, I am new AGAIN to the list after 5 years of not reading, so here is my first post. Does anyone out there know of Schools/Clubs/Instructors of DB/Escrima/Arnis/Kali in Tucson/Denver/San Diego? I have been training since 1990, but I would like to get back to basics. Thanks Larry McClure lmm@espsim.com lmm@unidot.com lmmm@theriver.com ------------------------------ From: AnimalMac@aol.com Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 10:41:05 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #467 In a message dated 11/5/99 8:05:17 AM Mountain Standard Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << As you so eloquently stated Mac, the courts view a knife as a thug's weapon (I'm taking about tactical knives here, not a pocket knife, >> That was Kevin's point, but I agree wholeheartedly with it. >Judges aren't ignorant, they deal with the scum of the earth every day, and know how dangerous the streets are. They are very aware of that. Snd something that Mas said in his class that stuck me as really important is that most lawyers don't know how to defend the innocent. A lot of the stuff they do is designed to hide the truth. >But, the feelings of the legal community are such that if you feel the need to carry a weapon to defend yourself, you should apply for a gun permit, and carry a weapon that is legally acceptable for defense. But you could kill somebody!!! Oh wait a minute.... > If such an incident occurs, you had better be able to prove that you did everything in your power to avoid the confrontation before resorting to stabbing someone, that you had no other choice but to use deadly force, and that you did not participate in overkill. Specifically, be able to describe what the guy did, what the context of the situation was, and where you got the impression that it offered a deadly threat. Being able to say, "he did this, this, this and this, which I knew to be potentially lethal acts" stands up a whole lot better than "he looked at me mean." Which is what a whole lot of people fall down on. A major part of defending yourself involves communication of what you know and the ability to explain the reasonable and rational motivations of what you did. >The legal definition of acceptable use of force is "using only enough force to overcome the resistance being offered." Anything beyond this smacks of vigilante justice, something the judge will take an extremely dim view of once you are in front of him/her trying to explain your actions. In our WSD class we tell people, you have the right to do whatever it takes to stop him from attacking, but once he is down, you do not have the right to jump up and down on his chest in high heels. You seldom can go wrong with a self-defense plea if everyone who saw it, saw you trying to escape ------------------------------ From: Drew Zimba Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 08:12:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: "Cheating" at Kali??? Steve wrote: >i have to admit I asked renato magno about your bjj >skill level - he said that a) it took you a long time >to get where your at now (you said this as well), that >you like to cheat (nothing i didnt know from training >with you in kali) and ready for the complainant - he >said that you are actually at purple belt skill level >and you know a boat load of techniques I wonder what you mean by cheating? Cheating implies a mutually understood set of rules. In BJJ, which can be (and often is) very sport-oriented, I can understand the use of the term. But Kali is a warrior art, and as the old cliche tells us, in war all's fair. If by doing something unexpected, your "opponent" (in quotes here because you refer to kali training) makes you realize an future offensive option or a present defensive opening, then you have learned something. Why would you want rules to hinder your training when a real opponent wouldn't follow them anyway? Drew ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: "Dave Huang" Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 08:49:05 PST Subject: eskrima: Re: Frame of Reference, Self Defense As a frame of reference for the "self defense" thread (Animal, you might not remember me from the Riverside CA seminar, but hello. Tried to email you to no avail), keep in mind that it takes a retainer to hire an attorney to fight a felony case, IF the attorney is willing to take the case (of course, it depends on the attorney how much to charge). There are all types of complexities. In Los Angeles, CA, there is generally no bail for most PC 187 (homicide) cases. If there is bail, think millions/thousands. It costs a lot to go to trial, it is also a long process (anywhere from months to years...long time to be incarcerated if there is no bail, hope you like baloney). Long periods of boredom punctuated by short bursts of pure excitement/terror. Dave ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Todd Ellner Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 09:46:13 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: Massad Ayoob ...and another voice in favor of LFI. I learned an AWFUL lot from the Judicious Use of Deadly Force class. The whole point of self defense is that you are able to go home at the end of the day and enjoy life. If you are dead you can't do that. So we learn stuff that will keep others from killing us. If you are in prison life is not fun, and you don't get to live at home. So you should learn from an expert how to keep your justifiable and legal self defense from turning into a manslaughter conviction. Samson slew the Philistines with the jawbone of an ass. Make sure that you don't do yourself in with the same weapon. Besides (and this is off topic a little, sorry Ray), I thought I knew how to shoot pretty well. The second half of LFI-1 demonstrated pretty conclusively that I didn't. But I was a lot better at it at the end of the second weekend. Todd ------------------------------ From: Chad Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 10:03:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: Re: training sticks Training sticks. Floro Villabrille used to train using light rattan sticks wrapped in cloth. If I'm not mistaken it was shirt material. That and no protective equiptment. You got to remember though that they had no protective equiptment back then. Now days we have hockey gloves, elbow and knee pads even forearm and shin if you want. Take advantage of the technology. Try some of the equiptment and use rattan. The equiptment might be a little expensive but so can buying dozens of padded sticks etc., etc. ===== "Draw me not without reason, sheath me not without honor" Chad Hawaii __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: "Patrick Christian" Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 13:45:20 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #467 Along the discusssion of carrying weapons for self defense, what are the legal ramifications for carrying other weapons than knives and guns (i.e. an Asp)? I keep one in my car and sometimes carry it. Merci, PC ------------------------------ From: "Joe & Doro Hironaka" Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 12:06:52 -0800 Subject: eskrima: self defense with a knife It is possible to defend yourself with a knife and survive legality also. You had just better be sure you are justified. In San Diego a few months back, such an incident occurred. A retired Navy man, Earl, now working as a radio dispatcher for the Border Patrol was attacked while walking home from work late one night. He noticed a car with some thugs following him so he slipped his Spyderco knife out of his pocket. Sure enough, the car stopped in a driveway ahead of him. One man got out of the passenger side and pointed a gun at him. At this point he pushed the gun aside and slashed the assailant twice ending with a thrust to the chest. The perp dropped the gun and fell. The driver of the car also had a gun and pointed it at Earl. Earl picked up the gun from the ground and fired hitting another passenger of the car in the head. The driver then fled on foot to seek help for his friends. The police were called and were able to apprehend the crooks. Everything checked out with the police and the incident was ruled self defense. no charges filed against Earl. Joe Hironaka ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 12:42:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #467 > Along the discusssion of carrying weapons for self defense, what are the > legal ramifications for carrying other weapons than knives and guns (i.e. an > Asp)? I keep one in my car and sometimes carry it. Best to check the penal codes of your country, state & city. All will be different... Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "Ted Truscott" Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 12:40:58 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: "Steven Drape" slash and burn > A fight where the attacker has cuts all over him but no major stab wounds > simply means that the person making the slashes didn't know what he was > doing, OR couldn't bring himself to take that step, and that goes back to > previous posts concerning why one would carry the knife if he is not > prepared to use it. > > Steve OR: perhps it is a message to the judge: "I never tried to kill him...see, I only slashed him, - no deep puncture wounds!" Ted T. The Fighting Old Man ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 14:42:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #468 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.