From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #469 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Sat, 6 Nov 1999 Vol 06 : Num 469 In this issue: eskrima: Ayoob eskrima: Re: medicine eskrima: Re: Dr Gyi eskrima: Knife Defense [none] eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #468 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #468 eskrima: AC joints eskrima: re:training sticks eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #467 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #468 eskrima: marc's "cheating" ways Re: eskrima: Knife Defense eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gints Klimanis Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 15:17:52 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Ayoob eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com wrote: > From: Todd Ellner > Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 09:46:13 -0800 > Subject: eskrima: Re: Massad Ayoob > > ...and another voice in favor of LFI. I'd like to try this course. > I learned an AWFUL lot from the Judicious Use of Deadly Force > class. The whole point of self defense is that you are able I learned a LOT from reading one of Ayoob's books, _In The Gravest Extreme_, available from amazon.com http://www.ayoob.com/ Modern law and general morality seem to have digressed. Apparently, the law believes that a threat stops when the perpetrator has been thwarted. So, if the perpetrator runs to his car to get a gun, you can't roll 'em until he gets the gun. Otherwise, you'll be prosecuted for assault on a citizen fleeing the scene of a crime. > to go home at the end of the day and enjoy life. If you are > dead you can't do that. So we learn stuff that will keep others > from killing us. If you are in prison life is not fun, and > you don't get to live at home. So you should learn from an > expert how to keep your justifiable and legal self defense > from turning into a manslaughter conviction. ------------------------------ From: LeighanS@aol.com Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 19:11:40 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: medicine from: leighans@aol.com medicine is nothing more than the controlled use of poison....after all, you are introducing something into your body to kill something ( such as bacteria or viruses)....name your pizzen ------------------------------ From: Kilap@aol.com Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 20:40:24 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Dr Gyi Hy writes: << Subject: eskrima: some notes on 2 day Dr. Gyi Bando monk seminar>> Thanks for posting the info. So how did you learn about the seminar? Regards, Travis ------------------------------ From: butch@epix.net Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 19:54:44 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Knife Defense Hello All, I just completed the NRA Self Protection Course given by my friend who is a federal law enforcement armed and unarmed self defense instructor. He has been around. Basically, most state penal codes are the same when it comes to justifiable homicide. There are 3 situations that you can kill someone in self defense: 1. To protect your life and the life of another when confronted by an attacker who you perceive will kill you or someone else. You better be darned sure on this one. Be aware of reasonable force rules which are elaborate. 2. To prevent yourself from being kidnapped or someone else being kidnapped. 3. To prevent yourself from being raped or another person from being raped. You also must be sure on this one. Using the knife for self defense can sometimes be better than using a gun since a well trained individual can control the amount of damage he can do to his attacker. You can slash or thrust your opponent as required by the situation. Maybe a little slash to your attacker will cause him to run away and stop trying to hurt/kill you. As opposed to the knife, the gun is a one way trip most of the time. You cannot control the bullet once it leaves the barrel. You cannot pull it back. Its stopping power is awesome as opposed to the knife. You cannot control the amount of damage a bullet does to somebody - you can with a knife. So the question is "Can knives be more humane weapons then guns because of this control factor? Would you rather give your attacker a slash to the arm, face, leg etc... than put a bullet in his brain to stop him from attacking you with a nonprojectile weapon if you must. Even if your attacker is trying to kill you, you may not feel obligated(due to your ethical belief system) to kill him if you feel that your knife skills can stop his attack. It should be noted that using the knife as a defense weapon depends on the type of weapon your attacker has,the situation and your mindset. Once again, use reasonable force rules. If one of your slashes can stop the attacker and he runs away, do not follow him and continue to fight with him. Just quit and leave. Also, the knife has historically been given a bad rap. The Aristocrats of Europe could afford the fancy swords and training associated with their position in life. The poor peasants could only afford knives for self defense. So the rich looked down on the peasants and their only means of self defense which were knives. Ever since then, knives have always been looked down upon as weapons of the poor "low class" thug types. This prejudice may be carried into the modern courtroom when it comes to cases involving knife use for self defense. It would seem to me that a person who gives his attacker a couple of slashes (which does not kill him) would look more humane in the politically correct court's judgement than if you blasted the attacker to death with a .45 cal hundgun with hollow points. This debate probably depends on your self defense mindset. If you do not wish to kill your attacker, then use the knife if you can. If you do not mind knocking off criminal attackers, use your .45cal with hollowpoint ammunition. At least you will not have a witness to testify against you in court. Anyway, self defense laws and philosophies are sometimes confusing. Butch Why pick on lions when there are plenty of sheep to be had. ------------------------------ From: Luis Pellicer Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 09:19:14 +0800 Subject: [none] >Can you describe a "Hammer Curl"? Is that just a standard dumbbell curl? > Curl the dumbells with your fist in a vertical position, don't supinate. LSPIII ------------------------------ From: BENRBRAUN@aol.com Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 22:53:42 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #468 In regard to training sticks: My best advise is to start with bare, light weight rattan and progressively go up in weight and hardness as skill progresses. Generally you want to work with something hard enough to provide negative reinforcement for slip ups yet heavy enough to build control and strength. In this context it is extremely useful if you are able to spar, or do combat drills, with someone that is able to barely outdo you. What I mean is that you want to train with the heaviest stick that you are able to use, without becoming sloppy in technique, while being challenged by someone able to just barely outdo you. I realize this is easier said than done. The point is that you are using a heavy stick to build fine motor skill and strength while at the same time being stimulated to learn strategy but not being overwhelmed by a lack thereof. ------------------------------ From: "Steven Drape" Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 20:14:11 PST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #468 > > A fight where the attacker has cuts all over him but no major stab >wounds > > simply means that the person making the slashes didn't know what he was > > doing, OR couldn't bring himself to take that step, and that goes back >to > > previous posts concerning why one would carry the knife if he is not > > prepared to use it. >OR: perhps it is a message to the judge: "I never tried to kill him...see, >I >only slashed him, - no deep puncture wounds!" > >Ted T. >The Fighting Old Man I would like to believe that the defender was thinking about the possible future consequences (the judge) when dealing with a life-threatening situation, but I'm afraid that doesn't cut it with reality. Unless the individual is a hardcore, battle-tested warrior, he probably won't be thinking about anything in particular, and for sure not about the judge! Surviving in combat is almost always luck the first few encounters. The conscious brain basically shuts off and the body just reacts in any way it can to save itself, right or wrong. If one survives a few of these encounters, he begins to be able to maintain control of his brain/emotions during the fight and therefore continues to win/survive. This is why I stated that if the attacker ends up on the ground with 10 or 12 cuts, but no serious stab wound, the defender didn't know what he was doing. If one is truly skilled/experienced, the attacker either would be subdued without chopping him into hamburger, or he would be dead. If you DO know what you are doing and you DO chop a man up like that, then the judge would be completely right to toss you in the can, because you were playing with the attacker, in a somewhat sadistic manner. On the other hand, a guy who only learned these pass-and-slash drills that are so common in FMA schools today might not have any other options to save his life, so he turns into a windmill and goes at it. Most schools only teach these type of drills, and don't teach real knife-fighting skills. Whether or not real knife-fighting should be taught is another topic. Steve ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Michael Koblic Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 20:35:35 -0800 Subject: eskrima: AC joints Help, please! Anybody has sustained injury to their acromio-clavicular (AC) joint as a result of MA practice? If so how? Anybody got a chronic AC joint problem *without* injuring it acutely first? If so, what did you do about it? Thanks in advance, Mike Koblic, Quesnel BC ------------------------------ From: "John Taylor" Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 00:46:02 PST Subject: eskrima: re:training sticks Re: taining sticks. Lars asked about training sticks. My advice is don't buy them through martial arts stores and the like. They charge through the nose. Just use cane, of the diameter you prepared to get whacked with. Then buy some PVC tube foam, slip it over, and tape it with electrical tape. It's up to you to choose length, diameter, and thickness of the foam padding. John Taylor. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Steven Drape" Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 01:10:36 PST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #467 >I regret to inform you all that my mother, Marcelina Salazar Baet, passed >away last night (Friday morning Philippines time). She was hospitalized >last >October 24th and during her stay she suffered a stroke resulting in >intercranial bleeding. I, along with my wife, daughter, & mother-in-law, >will >be leaving for the Philippines to attend services. I hope you all may keep >my >mother in your prayers as we lay her to rest. > >Thank you all & God bless, >Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet I'm sorry to hear of your loss. Returning to one's home should always be for happier reasons, but life treats us all this way eventually. Have faith that she is watching over you and your family from her place in the afterlife. You and your family have my best wishes. Aking pakikiramay sa pagkamatay ng iyong ina, ganyan talaga ang buhay d'yan talaga tayonglahat patungo, pero 'wag kang mag-alala mapasalangit naman ang kanyang kaluluwa at palagisiyang nakatingin sa inyo. Steve ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: SReiter000@aol.com Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 07:21:05 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #468 In a message dated 11/5/99 2:47:34 PM Pacific Standard Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Subject: eskrima: "Cheating" at Kali??? Steve wrote: >i have to admit I asked renato magno about your bjj >skill level - he said that a) it took you a long time >to get where your at now (you said this as well), that >you like to cheat (nothing i didnt know from training with you in kali) and ready for the complainant - he >said that you are actually at purple belt skill level >and you know a boat load of techniques I wonder what you mean by cheating? Cheating implies a mutually understood set of rules. In BJJ, which can be (and often is) very sport-oriented, I can understand the use of the term. >> the term was used here in reference to bjj where things like finger locks ect. are not accpetable - when i said cheating at kali - what i meant is - marc and i where supposed to be doing a simple box pattern sumbrada drill - and he decides to throw empty hands into the mix - now that would be fine if guro dan had wanted the drill to be free flow anything goes sumbrada or sparring but when a instructor give a drill - its usally meant to be followed as requested - however marc almost never colors within the lines and a) made me look bad when dan was watch - b) throws me off when i'm tring to practice or learn a particular movement - c) if you do it to marc he gets upset - d) and after all that he gets all happy with himself that he just punched you in the face, your not thinking about the punch coming - ya,ya, i know i got hit cause i didnt block - and i should be ready for anything -- IN A FIGHT - not when i'm tring to learn one move- steve ------------------------------ From: SReiter000@aol.com Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 07:25:56 EST Subject: eskrima: marc's "cheating" ways marc - the previous post wasnt meant to be a knock towards - i just felt the need to explain what i meant as per request - i'm sure you have your own personal train adgenda which you feel justifies the manner in which you choose to train - steve ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 06:17:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: eskrima: Knife Defense Some common misconceptions here... > Using the knife for self defense can sometimes be better than using a gun since a > well trained individual can control the amount of damage he can do to his > attacker. You can slash or thrust your opponent as required by the situation. Maybe > a little slash to your attacker will cause him to run away and stop trying to > hurt/kill you. As opposed to the knife, the gun is a one way trip most of the time. > You cannot control the bullet once it leaves the barrel. You cannot pull it back. > Its stopping power is awesome as opposed to the knife. You cannot control the amount > of damage a bullet does to somebody - you can with a knife. Where to start... You control the bullet before it leaves the barrel (or as), not after. According to Ayoob, most people are more afraid of a knife than a gun. They would rather be shot than stabbed (neither for me, please :). Remember that 98% of the time a gun is used to defend against an attack, the attack is halted and the firearm is NEVER even fired. That doesn't happen with a knife. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 06:09:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #469 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.