From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #479 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Thur, 11 Nov 1999 Vol 06 : Num 479 In this issue: eskrima: laws eskrima: Re: Stickfighter vs. swordfighter eskrima: Re: Stickfighter vs. swordfighter eskrima: Pekiti Footwork eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #477 eskrima: Self Defense eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #478 [none] eskrima: legal definitions eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ABurrese@aol.com Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 15:48:55 EST Subject: eskrima: laws In a message dated 99-11-11 15:05:24 EST, you write: << What's the difference between a felony and a misdemeanour ??? What's the difference between penal codes and a body of case law ??? >> To be quick and basic. The difference in the first two is the severety of the crime. You will be punished more for the felony. If I punch a guy in the mouth, will get charged with misdemeanor assault. For this, pay your fine and go home. (been there, done that) Felony assault is when you use a weapon, or cause serious bodily harm. May find yourself in prison for this one. Like everything, it varies. Definitions of what is what will be found in each state's codes. As for codes vs. case law, the codes are what the legislature writes. These are laws we have to follow, etc. Case law is equally important, this is how the courts have decided cases and interpreted the codes. Generally, the Courts will follow past cases, that's why a lawyers time is spent researching past cases. Courts follow the precident set in these previous cases, or if where you are at has not decided that kind of case, you can try and convince the court with a decision made in another court. (does not mean the Court will follow it, but can be persuasive) That's a quick answer in a nutshell, Alain Burrese 2nd year lawstudent at UM School of Law ------------------------------ From: David Fulton Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 16:45:56 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Re: Stickfighter vs. swordfighter Chad wrote: > >Here's a question for the post that i can't really decide on. I see >pros and cons on both sides so here it is: > with one person trained in and actually being a seasoned sword fighter >and the other being trained in and actually being a seasoned >stickfighter, who has the advantage in the following: >1. stick vs. stick >2. sword vs. sword >3. stick vs. sword and >4. sword vs. stick >Please, no "there the same thing" responses, because there not. > Chad, As a general rule (in FMA and in life), when you play someone else's game you're probably going to loose. The stick fighter will probably win in #1 and the sword fighter will probably win in #2. Numbers 3 & 4 seem to be the same, unless you mean something like: 3.) stick v. sword = stick fighter has stick and sword fighter has sword (ie each has their favorite weapon). 4.) sword v. stick = stick fighter has sword and sword fighter has stick (ie each has the other person's favorite weapon). If I'm correct in the above then I'd put my $$ on the sword fighter in #3 (assuming all other things equal) and on the stick fighter in #4 (again assuming all other things equal). And for the record .... stick and sword are the same thing ;o) Sort of .... and sort of not .... ;o) Respectfully, Dave Fulton dfulton@computerpackages.com Full Contact Martial Arts Association "As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another." ------------------------------ From: " Bad Karma " Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 14:05:25 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: Stickfighter vs. swordfighter >From: Chad >Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 11:15:12 -0800 (PST) >Subject: eskrima: Stickfighter vs. swordfighter > >Here's a question for the post that i can't > really decide on. I see pros and cons on both > sides so here it is: > with one person trained in and actually being > a seasoned sword fighter and the other being > trained in and actually being a seasoned >stickfighter, who has the advantage in the > following: >1. stick vs. stick >2. sword vs. sword >3. stick vs. sword and >4. sword vs. stick #snip# It seems reasonable, if not logical, that the man would have his best advantage with his ``native'' weapon. Thus, the stickfighter should fare better with a stick, a swordsman with a sword. If we accept that point, then your question becomes which is the more effective weapon? Am I on the right track, so far? - --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ------------------------------ From: "BILL MCGRATH" Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 13:42:40 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Pekiti Footwork Konky asked, "At our club there is a pekiti tirsia player, and he made a comment about Pekiti never retreating or backing up, always pressing the attack. Is this accurate? Or is there specific footwork practiced for backing up? Hopefully , Bill McGrath will respond to this question. (note: I don't know how advanced, rank or knowledgeable the guy in the club is) thanks, konky" One of the hardest things to teach most beginning students is to be sufficiently aggressive. When choosing "fight or flight" when attacked, most people mentally lean towards "flight". Maybe this comes from our caveman-hunter days. If you have chosen to hunt a particular animal, you are doing so because you have calculated that you can succeed (because you are stronger, more numerous and/or better armed then your prey). Perhaps on some level we assume the reverse is also true. If something is "hunting" (attacking) us, they are doing so because they have calculated that the odds are in their favor (stronger, better armed, etc). Therefore, Pekiti training emphasizes learning aggressive forward footwork and attacks in the beginning stages. Aggressively pressing forward with a few techniques will serve most people better in most situations than trying to apply a multitude of "what if" counters and recounters better suited to "master vs. master" fighting. Standard practice with Tuhon Gaje was to physically and mentally exhaust us in a long day of training, then spend the end of the day going over one aggressive attack combination over and over again, so that it would come out instinctively in a fight. This is something I still like to do in my own seminars because I feel it helps the students walk away from the seminar with a technique they can use the next day if need be. Now, having said all that... Of course there is both offensive and counter-offensive footwork in Pekiti-Tirsia. Forward and reverse triangles, diamonds, hourglasses, W's, M's; all these have a backwards movement. Many advanced attacks have a footwork bait (false retreat) built right into the technique. Some footwork components that "backup" are used to get from one side of an opponent to another, some are used to escape an attack, some are baits, some are fakes and some are used against multiple opponents. Generally they are kept short, just a step or two, to lessen the likelihood of your tripping over something. Remember also that your opponent can probably go forward a lot faster than you can back up over a long straight line. Maybe your friend has heard Tuhon Gaje (or someone who trained under him- people often play back their instructors words in their heads while teaching) use a term like "always" or "never" during class. Often Tuhon Gaje's "always" sometimes meant "always...until I give you the next part of the drill" and his "never" sometimes meant "never do this... during today's training." Sometimes his "You should never do this" literally meant "YOU should never do this...but I can." What he was really saying was: "Follow the drill exactly as I give it to you because I know the level of technique you are ready for". A beginner may not have the skills needed to apply a bait effectively, while a bait may be a perfectly good technique for an advanced fighter. Regards, Tuhon Bill McGrath ------------------------------ From: KRobb97471@aol.com Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 17:09:40 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #477 Just a note on street altercations and the law. Most of the time if you really are an upstanding, relatively clean cut citizen, You won't have much to worry about. Chances are the opposition has already had dealings with the local police. As long as you don't leave him an absolute wreck, he's probably going to jail (again), not you. Robert ------------------------------ From: "Mikal Keenan" Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 16:22:42 -0600 Subject: eskrima: Self Defense Given the thoughts that have been flying around on the list re: legalities of self defense, try this on for thought: two days ago two women were allegedly "jockeying" around on a local highway after which both stopped at a traffic signal on an exit offramp. Woman #1 pulled up in front of #2, exited her vehicle and went back to #2's car very animatedly waving her arms/hands and verbalizing her displeasure with the way #2 had been tailgating on the highway. #1 then shot #2 in the face through her driver's side window. #1 was dead on the spot. #2 claims that she was in fear of death and fired her gun in self defense. H'mm-m-m-m. First this was reported as a case of "Road Rage." Now the police are calling it murder while the lawyer says "self defense." Is the shooter going to do any time? ------------------------------ From: "raleigh adams" Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 18:08:38 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #478 > >The 1 in 8 stat is not a range stat. Maybe it isn't accurate (pun intended :), >but the range is a very different place than the street (as I'm sure you >know). I've spent many an hour shooting at a 'hot' range side-by-side w/the >best of the LEOs. I agree that many are fine shots, but street stress >and partial/moving targets makes it far more difficult. yes? > >Ray Terry > Yes....absolutely,,,,when I trained regularly with K9 one 10 hr a day a month we would do "stress" shooting,,,,we would have to run,,sprint,,,then they would spring a scenario on us,,,,we would run up and engage the target,,,,we would also have to do timed events,,,,with whistles,,,timing devices,,,,,superiors urging us on,,,,loudly,,,running and jumping through windows,,,climbing a rappeling tower,,,,all this created a lot of adrenalin,,,and it makes you shake,,,i don't care how great you are,,,adrenalin makes you shake,,,it's hard to learn to control that and work with it ..... and you are correct about the range shooting not being at all like the real thing,,,nothing ,,, i mean nothing prepares you for the street stress of the actual event....it's scary,,,and i have several times had to work through stress so tough that it was difficult to speak..and afterwards you feel guilty that you could not control it ,,,,,,,,,,.it just takes training and more training,,,and that's why i have so much respect for this net,,,it has a lot of highly trained MA's and my hat is off to each of you for your dedication to the arts,,,I am certainly proud to be associated with such a MA family........admittedly i get in more police training than i do Escrima /silat/kosho/ training etc,,,,but i try to include everything i can,,, ,,I will tell you this,,,law enforcement is not a glamorous job,,,regardless of how chuck norris wants to portray it,,,,my father was a real texas ranger,,,and he did not ever come close to the norris tv image that everyone now expects from all LEO's,,,,,Raleigh ------------------------------ From: Luis Pellicer Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 10:29:33 +0800 Subject: [none] >Here's a question for the post that i can't really decide on. I see >pros and cons on both sides so here it is: > with one person trained in and actually being a seasoned sword fighter >and the other being trained in and actually being a seasoned >stickfighter, who has the advantage in the following: >1. stick vs. stick >2. sword vs. sword >3. stick vs. sword and >4. sword vs. stick >Please, no "there the same thing" responses, because there not. > As a practitioner of the "old" way of the filipino sword, my question to you would be : Which would you rather be hit over the head with, or thrusted at, a kamagong baston (blade shaped or rounded) or a finely forged and sharpened barong? The possibilities with a blade far outnumber a stick, Musashi not withstanding. LSPIII ------------------------------ From: "Joe & Doro Hironaka" Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 18:42:44 -0800 Subject: eskrima: legal definitions I'm not Ray but here goes Felony: violation of law punishable by more than one year confinement Misdemeanor: violation of law punishable by less than one year confinement Statute (penal code): law enacted by legislature Case law: laws derived from judges' decisions Joe Hironaka ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 19:21:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #479 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in directory pub/eskrima/digests. 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