From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #481 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Fri, 12 Nov 1999 Vol 06 : Num 481 In this issue: eskrima: "To MPEG or not to MPEG" Subject: eskrima: Modern Arnis Forms eskrima: Misc.threads eskrima: Re: Cdn. law eskrima: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_stick=A0_vs._blade.?= eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #478 eskrima: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_stick=A0_vs._blade.?= eskrima: Abanico - martial arts videos eskrima: Re: Arnis forms vids Re: eskrima: Re: Arnis forms vids eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #480 eskrima: Seminar Update eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul Hopkins Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 07:09:34 -0800 Subject: eskrima: "To MPEG or not to MPEG" You might check out Trevor Clarkson's site at http://www.creativefightersguild.com/ for a look at how he has put streaming video to work for him. ------------------------------ From: "J" Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 10:57:11 -0500 Subject: Subject: eskrima: Modern Arnis Forms Brian Wrote: Is anybody aware of videotapes that demonstrate the cane forms (kata) and unarmed forms of Modern Arnis? By demonstrate, I mean do the videotapes show the forms in an instructional manner? Thank you. Brian I don't know about videos but Remy Presas has a book out with instructional pictures for the modern arnis Forms that your looking for. it's what I use as reference to remember that style of arnis. the book is called Modern Arnis the Filipino art of stick fighting by Remy Presas this book is still in print and can be ordered on line with borders or with the other large book companies on line the book includes all the unarmed moves as well as the armed ones and if I can follow the picks in it you will be able to as well. J bows deeply to you ******** Attention PC Owners! ******** Year 2000 bugs are rampant in all telephone paging systems you will need to uninstall all sound, Data Voice and video programs that interact with the internet or you will have your entire PCs taken over by the anti-Christ Bill Gates !!!!!!!!!!!!! ****** 250 Free hours of safety from Bill Gates******* ------------------------------ From: "Kevin Davis" Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 11:09:32 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Misc.threads >> Strong reports that the national average is one hit for 4 shots fired... >> they did pretty good! > >I've heard one in eight and one in six. 1 in 8 for LEOs, 1 in 6 for private >citizens. > >Ray Terry >raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Pretty much an accurate statement. The FBI took a look at officers feloniously assaulted and published a study a couple of years ago. The hit rate for suspects was 90%. The hit rate for officers was substantially less at (quoting from memory) less than 40%. Why? Most shootings occur at very close range and are initiated by the suspect that attacks from ambush, i.e.-drawing and shooting from concealment. The officer is usually "reacting" and as Ray has mentioned when in stress response technique and performance seriously deteriorate. Of course, the more the officer is trained in "dynamic" shooting the better his/her performance. *Can't we extrapolate this into our MA training?!? Incidentally one of my SWAT guys was involved in a shooting yesterday morning. The suspect (armed with a longgun) wanted to do a "suicide by cop". My guys shot him twice with 12 gauge Less Lethal (bean bag) rounds which dropped him. Trouble is he had serious intent to end his own life. He reached out grabbed his firearm and attempted to point it at the officers as he was falling backwards. One of my guys shot at him with an MP-5 subgun. He missed as the suspect was falling back. The suspect then shot himself in his own chest. Now my guys a good shot I should now I instruct him "but" in these circumstances (in a doorway of a house with the officer standing on a small congested concrete porch with a suspect pointing a longgun at him) I don't think he performed too bad! This is reality. It is close, confined, quick and extremely violent. The more we train in these conditions the better we are prepared! By the way my guys are all okay 8-) !!! KD Incidentally, like Animal and Crafty did recently, I am tying the knot this weekend. Beautiful lady, inside and out that was my physical therapist after knee re-construction surgury. I'm gonna go run now, I'm gettin' stressed! - KD ------------------------------ From: "Ted Truscott" Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 08:23:37 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: Cdn. law In Canada we do not use the terms felony and misdemeanor, we use: Indictment or Summary Offence: There are some Crimnal Code sections which distinguish between summary conviction offences and indictable offences. Crimes are not separated into felonies or misdemeanors. All crimes are referred to as offences. An indictment (pronounced: in dite' ment), refers to a formal, written charge for a serious crime which must be dealt with by a formal jury trial. The type of trial for minor violations in which it is deemed that justice can be served by a swifter procedure before a magistrate or a provincial Judge without a jury is called a summary proceeding. Some offences such as S. 84 (1) pointing a firearm without lawful excuse, can be proceeded upon as either summary conviction or as an indictable offence, depending on the severity of the situation. The terms themselves though, actually refer to the type of trial to handle the charge and do not refer to a type of crime. (The foregoing is a shameless plug as it was excerpted from my book: "Canadian Law: Self Defense and the Martial Artist.) Ted Truscott The Fighting Old Man ------------------------------ From: David Fulton Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 11:41:08 -0500 Subject: eskrima: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_stick=A0_vs._blade.?= Steven Drape wrote: > While an experienced stick fighter may be able to hold his own with the >experienced sword fighter, my money is on the sword. The only time the stick >fighter can actually be said to be equal or have any advantage is at close >range, where he can use the live hand to control the blade a little, and >since most stick systems don't train to stay at close range, that means >almost never. Here I think you're focusing only on the weapon itself, rather than the other relevant issues. I agree that a sword is, in and of itself, superior to a stick, but only if you're familiar with how to use it. > The combination where the sword fighter has the stick and vice versa >would depend on how the stick fighter trains to use his stick. If he trains >to use it like a blade, then when he has the blade, he would be at an >advantage. If, however, he trains in the closer range, snapping styles of >the stick, then using the blade might be tough for him. > > By the way, I agree totally that they are not the same, not even close. But didn't you just say, in the previous paragraph "If he trains to use it like a blade, then when he has the blade, he would be at an advantage"? If they are, as you just said "not the same, not even close." then why would a stick fighter train "to use it like a blade,". I'm confused. >This is one of the myths of the FMA that was propagated when the arts were >being taught as add-ons to other arts back in the 70's and early 80's. While >it is true that the angles are the same for any weapon, the defense will >vary depending on the weapon and the range of the attack. As an example, a >center thrust with a stick can be blocked or tapped aside with the empty >hand, while that will get your hand sliced if you try it against the blade, >assuming a competent blade wielder. > > Another example involves knife attacks. These are related to empty hand >techniques, but have very little connection with the stick or sword. A knife >attack, slash or stab, is actually like a jab, not a roundhouse punch. Think >of the angles with the stick, and how much they vary from each other, like >backhand vs. forehand, downward vs. upward, etc. With the knife, these >distinctions don't exist. The difference between a # 1 and a #4 (forehand >and backhand downward attacks) knife attack is only the angle of the wrist, >the arm/shoulder position is the same for each, and the attack generally >comes straight out from the center of the body. If someone is trying to do >knife techniques with stick motions, then you haven't been taught the right >way to use a knife. But didn't you say above that "While it is true that the angles are the same for any weapon,"? Now you're saying "Think of the angles with the stick, and how much they vary from each other... With the knife, these distinctions don't exist." and that "If someone is trying to do knife techniques with stick motions, then you haven't been taught the right way to use a knife."? If the angles are the same for any weapon then why is it wrong to do knife with stick motions? It seems to me that it's not so much that the angles or planes of attack are different, but that it's a matter of degrees or subtleties. A downward, diagonal forehand is a downward, diagonal forehand regardless of the weapon. However, with the knife the movement can be smaller & tighter. There are stick motions that seem to have little value with a blade. An obvious example would be witiks. What purpose would hitting with the flat side of the blade serve? And Chad wrote: > >> From: David Fulton >>And for the record .... stick and sword are the same thing ;o) Sort >> of >> .... and sort of not .... ;o) >Although alot of things are transferable on one page, once the >technique is transfered from one to the other, they are used >differently. Period. In stickfighting there are things that you can >do that you just can not do in a sword fight. In stickfighting, >although it is not idealistic, you can take certain hits (this is a >whole different subject and issue that has it's place in another time >and post so let's not go there, right now) and choose to be a little >more aggresive. With the blade, its a whole different story. Blade >fighting has to be alot more technical and aggressiveness is not >usually a good thing. There is more finness when it comes to the >blade. This is my point exactly! Some basic things are transferable like: planes of attack, body mechanics, foot work, "edge awareness", etc. Some techniques are transferable, but utilized differently. Some techniques do not transfer. That's why I said "... stick and sword are the same thing ;o) Sort of .... and sort of not ;o)" Chad also wrote: >> >From: " Bad Karma " >> >Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 11:15:12 -0800 (PST) >> >Subject: eskrima: Stickfighter vs. swordfighter >> >> It seems reasonable, if not logical, that the man would have his best >> advantage with his ``native'' weapon. Thus, the stickfighter should >> fare better with a stick, a swordsman with a sword. >> If we accept that point, then your question becomes which is the more >> effective weapon? Am I on the right track, so far? > >OK, question a little rephrased: >How would a stickfighters attributes of being able to hit with speed >and power and(if he is used to fighting other stickfighters) he is used >to being a little more aggressive work for or against him? Having trained in "real time" the stick fighter would have the advantage of being accustomed to actually hitting his (uncooperative, unpredictable, moving) target rather than pulling it short and having experienced the intensity of an all out, spontaneous engagement. Blade training is by necessity more controlled or cooperative. Being more "aggressive" he might be able to be suckered into a lethal exchange because, as you said, he might be mentally "conditioned" to just taking a shot in order to give one back. >How would a bladefighters more cat-like prowess and finnesse and of >course his higher sense of evasion of the touch work for or against >him? Against him? You might be able to sucker him with a feint to set him up for an attack. He instinct of avoiding all contact might force him to move into a more vulnerable position when he could have taken what would have been a minor blow from a stick. His biggest advantage, IMHO, would be that training with live blades might give him a mental edge that a stick fighter may not have, especially if the stick fighter is one who is willing to take one to give one. The potential for serious injury/death is greater, in that a sharp blade need only touch you, and the room for error is less so concentration levels tend to increase. >Alot of theories this and logically that come into the question, but >when you really fight ceartain fallacies go right out the door. I know >the Dog Brothers certainly awnser questions at their Gatherings, Grand >Tuhon Leo Gaje Jr.'s boys awnser questions, in Hawaii we awnser >questions. Take the theories and logic and test it out for real. I >know that alot of the training is geared toward the same road, but fact >of the matter is that you can not get to that high road of body >mechanics where everything you do is interchangeable until you start >walking down the path. All the old men and masters did not get there >by taking classes and practicing twice a week. It was there love, >drive, and devotion to become the best that made them start from young >20 year old kids testing themselves out into the transition of becoming >the old men that knew what did and did not work. Also, understand that >there is a difference from the self-defense stuff you learn and >actually being a stickfighter where someone just as good as you or >better is really trying to hit you and make you hurt. That is the type >of friendly sparring that makes you not "believe" in your self or >technique, it makes you know that it works because you have actually >used it in real contact with someone trying to hit you full blast and >trying not to get hit by you because you are trying to hit him full >blast. Chad, If I may make an observation .... the above comment and the following quote from your response to my post: "I have fought stick against stick, staff. I have fought stick against blade on the street. Actually the fight did not last because of the force that I hit his machete with. Here in Hawaii, we do stickfight. I speak out of experience. I also answer questions, but the only way to tell me I'm wrong is to step on the field and prove it." give me the impression that you feel like you need to prove something to someone. No one here has, to my knowledge, questioned your skills or the sincerity of your training or anyone else from Hawaii for that matter. There are lots of people in lots of places "answering questions" and putting their art to the test. Turn the attitude down a little, you're among friends here. Respectfully, Dave Fulton dfulton@computerpackages.com Full Contact Martial Arts Association "As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another." ------------------------------ From: TGAce@aol.com Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 11:55:30 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #478 In a message dated 11/11/99 9:05:44 PM Central European Standard Tim, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << The effect of the FMJ would be >similar to a clean puncture with a blade. The individual may hemorrhage >to death eventually but it would take time. In the mean time you could be >facing one PO'd individual. >> Not quite.... your forgetting fluid shock, a FMJ round will dump "some" of its energy into a target, causing cavitation that damages tissue or shattering bone, causing secondary projectiles. Granted a semi-jacketed or hollow point will dump a lot more energy, but a hardball round wont make a "clean" cutting wound. Tom Gerace ------------------------------ From: David Fulton Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 12:02:47 -0500 Subject: eskrima: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_stick=A0_vs._blade.?= Previously, I wrote: > >And Chad wrote: >> >>Although alot of things are transferable on one page, once the >>technique is transfered from one to the other, they are used >>differently. Period. In stickfighting there are things that you can >>do that you just can not do in a sword fight. In stickfighting, >>although it is not idealistic, you can take certain hits (this is a >>whole different subject and issue that has it's place in another time >>and post so let's not go there, right now) and choose to be a little >>more aggresive. With the blade, its a whole different story. Blade >>fighting has to be alot more technical and aggressiveness is not >>usually a good thing. There is more finness when it comes to the >>blade. > >This is my point exactly! I just want to clarify that I did not agree with Chad's comparison of blade fighting and stick fighting wrt the blade being more technical, finesse oriented and aggressiveness being detrimental. My teacher's stick fighting is extremely technical, finesse oriented and he just loves it when you don't make him chase you ;o) When I fight, I treat the other person's like a blade and try to avoid getting hit. The key operative word being ... TRY ;o) Respectfully, Dave Fulton dfulton@computerpackages.com Full Contact Martial Arts Association "As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another." ------------------------------ From: abanico-video-knuettel@t-online.de (Dieter =?iso-8859-1?Q?Kn=FCttel?=) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 18:17:24 +0100 Subject: eskrima: Abanico - martial arts videos Hi everybody, I just want to inform the list, that my homepage from ABANICO Video Productions has moved to the following URL: http://www.abanico.de >From there you can go to the german or english pages by clicking to the relevant flags. I offer about 65 videos and I have more than 30 videos about filipino martial arts filmed and edited in high quality. I produced the 5 Inayan-Eskrima videos with Suro Mike Inay and the 4 Doce Pares videos with Danny Guba and Percival Pabelo as well as many others. Some new videos about Tonfa for members of the security and police departments may be interesting too for some members of the list. Other filipino-related videos are: Modern Arnis (7), Realistic selfdefense with everyday tools (2) Balisong knife (2), all authored by myself Jeet Kune Do (7) by Bob Breen/London, Kali/Sikaran/Streetfighting (3) by Jeff Espinous/Paris, Rapid Arnis (2) by Pat O´Malley and John Harvey/London, All videos are available in PAL and NTSC, and in german or english. For I have 10 year anniversary with ABANICO, have dropped the prices: 39,-- US $ for one tape, 35,-- US $ per tape if you order 2 - 4 videos 29,-- US $ if you order 5 or more videos All prices plus p&p. I have excellent feedbacks from all over the world about the quality of my videos. If you have linked ABANICO Video on your homepage already, please change the URL to the new one, because I will cancle the old one soon. A connectng link from the old to the new homepage will not be possible. If you have not linked my homepage, please have a look at it and I would appreciate, if you could make a link on your homepage. Any comments about the homepage and the videos are welcome. For any more questions, for example if you are a retailer and want to sell ABANICO Videos, please contact me via private mail. Thank you very much Dieter Knüttel ABANICO Video Productions European Modern Arnis Representative E-Mail: dk@abanico.de Internet: http://www.abanico.de ------------------------------ From: "Jesse & Anne Greenawalt" Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 12:37:58 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Re: Arnis forms vids Brian wrote: >Is anybody aware of videotapes that demonstrate the cane forms (kata) and >unarmed forms of Modern Arnis? By demonstrate, I mean do the videotapes show the >forms in an instructional manner? Thank you. Professor Presas had a set of 6 tapes made in the early 80's. One of the middle ones (4, I believe) contains several forms, I think both stick & empty handed. A bonus is seeing the list's own Rocky as a pup... I don't know if/where these are available, as Mr. Presas has newer set(s), or if the forms have changed since then. jester ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 10:10:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: eskrima: Re: Arnis forms vids > > A bonus is seeing the list's own Rocky as a pup... > Rocky! Come here! :) Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Knoruku@aol.com Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 14:41:34 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #480 Try usarnis.com. Bruce chiu will be glad to assist you. tape #3of G.M. Presas' series covers cane as well as empty hand forms. Sincerely, mtb ------------------------------ From: Mike Casto Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 11:51:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: Seminar Update This is an update to the previous e-mail pertaining to this. Asian Fighting Arts will be hosting a seminar with Willem "Uncle Bill" de Thouars and his wife, Aunt Joyce, on January 15 & 16, 2000. Uncle Bill will, of course, be teaching elements from his Kun Tao Silat de Thouars system. This system is based on his years of training in Chinese Kun Tao systems and Indonesian Pentjak Silat systems. Aunt Joyce will be teaching Cimande Silat as she learned it from her father, Carl Deerns. Location: Asian Fighting Arts, Dayton, Ohio (address below) Times: 10:00 AM - 4:30 PM both days Cost: $110 (for both days) at the door $60 for one day $85 for both days if you preregister by 1/1/2000 ===== Mike Casto Lakan Isa / Guru Satu Asian Fighting Arts Filipino Kali / Indonesian Pentjak Silat 5099 Springboro Pike Phone: (937) 293-5520 Dayton, OH 45439 Asian Fighting Arts http://www.guild-hall.com/afa/ Martial Arts Seminar Listings http://www.guild-hall.com/seminars/ Martial Arts School Database http://www.guild-hall.com/schools __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 12:45:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #481 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.