From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #483 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Sun, 14 Nov 1999 Vol 06 : Num 483 In this issue: eskrima: a day late eskrima: sword vs limp noodle? eskrima: Swords. peasants etc. eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #482 eskrima: Up-Coming Louisville,KY. Seminar. eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #480 eskrima: Re: Road Rage eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #482 eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marc Denny" Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 08:23:52 -0800 Subject: eskrima: a day late A Howl etc: A day or two late for Veteran's Day here in the US, but: "To save your world, you asked this man to die: Would this man, could he see you now, ask why?" Harry Gasker Woof, Crafty ------------------------------ From: "Fox_hound @bolt.com" Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 12:14:19 -0800 Subject: eskrima: sword vs limp noodle? Good points. But are we forgetting that the sticks are a substitute for the kris, kalis, and the other swords? A fighter holding a pair of krises in his hands and is as fast with them as he is with his sticks, can rush and slice anybody holding a sword into pot roast. The guy with the sword can strike first, but when the guy with the kris blocks with the right, you know the other guy's gonna get his when his left hand goes for the kill. Get your very own FREE, private e-mail account at http://mail.bolt.com ------------------------------ From: Michael Koblic Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 13:24:37 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Swords. peasants etc. >In the 4000 years or so of history of warfare, four types of weapons remained >constant, swords, spears, pole arms and archery. It is only over the last 400 >years that guns slowly (and slowly is the operative word) replaced these four >standard weapons. Basically as Ned Beaumont pointed out, people who went up >against these fearsome foursome with peasant weapons remained peasants. The one glaring exception I can think of were the very succesful peasant armies in Bohemia 1420 - 1434. They defeated at least three crusades sent against them consisting of knights in armour with swords and long poky things. The reasons for success were several: 1) Superior leadership - their first commander Jan Zizka introduced totally new concept of fighting. he understood selection of battle ground ( In the first battle of Sudomer he had the knights attack across a drained lake - they all got bogged down and slaughtered). 2) New weaponry. The armies used a wall made of armoured peasant wagons placed strategically with howitzers in the gaps between the wagons (howitzer = from Czech houfnice, houf = crowd). In the close quarter combat the peasants used what they were familiar with - flails, scythes mounted axially on their handles rather than at 90 degrees being the most common). The massed cavalry just broke down on the wall of the wagons. The long poky things got broken, the knights then could be reached from the battle wagons with the peasant weapons while their swords were too short. Once the cavalry was unhorsed, the lighter mobile peasants made short shrift of the knights. 3) Superior morale. The peasants fought on home territory and they knew exactly what they were fighting for. Women and children were involved in combat (kids using catapults). Against them stood essentially a mercenary force. I believe this is what Animal means by "commitment" making the difference in outcome. 4) Their reputation got such that the third crusade sent against them was defeated at Domazlice: the knights run when they heard the approaching peasants' battle hymn leaving behind amongst other things a papal bull declaring the crusade... The peasant armies were only defeated when a split occured in the movemement and the two factions faced off at Lipany. The moderate faction, knowing the peasant tactics outfoxed the hardliners with a predictable result. Mike Koblic, Quesnel BC ------------------------------ From: "Carlton H. Fung, D.D.S." Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 14:45:15 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #482 > From: "Steven Drape" > There are two methods of stick fighting: one which uses the stick as if > it were a blade, using little or no snapping attacks, and the snapping > styles, What about most styles where a stick is used like a baseball bat you bludgeon with it. Few styles teach to snap like whipping for some extra power on some types of moves. Snapping does not add power on "all" moves. Fewer styles use the stick as a blade with drawing strikes etc... All sticks appear to have originated or crosspollonated with the blade. I hope I get to meet you Steve. I really want to see your snapping to see if you are doing what I think you are doing. You are the only one to use this term in a significant conceptual way. > The angles certainly exist for each weapon, but my point is that a > defense against an angle 1 stick strike is ineffective-to-useless against an > angle 1 knife attack. The difference in the characteristics of the weapon > make the defense against each one different. Angles are the same, responses > are not! Well that is because people think defend like you train on the stick not the person. The true #1 defense is really a counter offense to the root. If you chop the tree trunk the branches fall the way you chop the trunk. > > >"If someone is trying to do knife > >techniques with stick motions, then you haven't been taught the right way > >to use a knife."? All weapons are the same and the angles are too. Minor variations change applications but true understanding of the art follows complete integreation from empty hand to spear and all ranges associated. I am still amazed at why some people are good at sticks but suck empty hand. They think there are 2 or more arts but there is really only one. > Reality says! If you attack with an angle 1 knife slash with your arm > even slightly extended as you would do with a stick or sword, you will get > slashed to ribbons by your opponent, and even if you don't, you give him so > much time to react that the attack would be ineffective. I don't believe this. This is just not true. You extend your arm when it is appropriote to do so. There are no absolutes in any fighting except rules of physics like "gravity works". Each person has their own reality. This is the reason even an awkward low level fighter can teach you something. We all have stories of how the lame awkward guy got the better of us. > >There are stick motions that seem to > >have little value with a blade. An obvious example would be witiks. What > >purpose would hitting with the flat side of the blade serve? > > Again, exactly my point. No. While you may not like the witik even it can have application. It is the perfect high line attension drawing tool to slip the live hand daga in while playing espaga daga. Every tool had merits to someone making his reality. If your witik does not work the reason is you are not "selling it". Selling requires at a minimum that the seller read and anticipate the buyer and lure him into making a decision based on urgency of perceived need. That is how books like Suntsu art of business/war etc... got written. The concepts are the same application is universal like "gravity works." No cuts, flames, or antagonism intended! Regards, Carlton H. Fung,D.D.S. Redondo Beach, Ca. ------------------------------ From: sandra697@webtv.net ("THE TIGERESS") Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 01:03:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: eskrima: Up-Coming Louisville,KY. Seminar. Hello Everyone, Just wanted to announce the Grand Opening of Q.M.A. Cross Training Centre' International,and our Spectacular 4-Day Martial Arts Event, to be held in Louisvlle,Kentucky. Q.M.A.C.T.C., MARTIAL ARTS EXTRAVAGAZA, APRIL 20th-23rd 2000 Instructors: - -Steven K. Dowd, Leo Fong, Thomas Nardi, Ted Wong, Kathy Long, Robert Ferguson, Cynthia Rothrock,Eric Lee Subjects Covered: Arnis Balite & Filipino Kuntaw Silat, Wei Kune Do/Pressure Point Knockouts Extreme Submssion Grappling & Russian Leg Locks, Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do, Boxing/Kickboxing, Millenieum Action/Acting Movie Making, and more! Please log on our Official Web Site at: http://QMACTC.tripod.com or further information and Pre-Regestration Form. Also,in July 2000 Richard Bustillo Seminar. Salamat Po, Sandra D. Sabatini Sifu/Guro Q.M.A.C.T.C. ------------------------------ From: SReiter000@aol.com Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 02:29:47 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #480 chad wrote << I know the Dog Brothers certainly awnser questions at their Gatherings, Grand Tuhon Leo Gaje Jr.'s boys awnser questions, in Hawaii we awnser questions. Take the theories and logic and test it out for real. >> well i've fought in three gatherings and have to strongly disagree with you - first off none of the afore mentioned fights involved live blades let alone blade vs. baston so the stmnt really address the issue - second off in regards to the gatherings - they are good for what they are but after witnessing masters at work i wouldnt call what they are doing escrima - i call it crash and bash - i've seen masters at work mearly sway back out of the way of a attack - then angle in for their counter attacks -- i'm not putting down the gatherings - just saying it aint the art form - do you think guro dan would stand toe to toe and slug it out - or do you tink he would use foot work to out manover you and take your head off without you even knowing what hit you. a story was related to me by a eye witness that punong guro edgar - while playing with dan decided to turn the heat up and went after him full on - guro dan just used foot work and edgar didnt get close - after wards edgar said "thats why he dan inosanto" just my 2 cents steve ------------------------------ From: "Gary A. Hudgins" Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 09:19:53 -0600 Subject: eskrima: Re: Road Rage eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com wrote: > ------------------------------- > > From: "Mikal Keenan" > Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 16:22:42 -0600 > Subject: eskrima: Self Defense > > Given the thoughts that have been flying around on the list re: legalities > of self defense, try this on for thought: two days ago two women were > allegedly "jockeying" around on a local highway after which both stopped at > a traffic signal on an exit offramp. Woman #1 pulled up in front of #2, > exited her vehicle and went back to #2's car very animatedly waving her > arms/hands and verbalizing her displeasure with the way #2 had been > tailgating on the highway. #1 then shot #2 in the face through her > driver's side window. #1 was dead on the spot. #2 claims that she was in > fear of death and fired her gun in self defense. H'mm-m-m-m. First this > was reported as a case of "Road Rage." Now the police are calling it > murder while the lawyer says "self defense." Is the shooter going to do > any time? > Mike: You must be from Alabama. I read the article in the paper. After the shooting, the woman who shot the 2nd woman was supposedly heard saying after she sat back in her car. "She's dying, I can't believe I shot her" or something to that effect. I have given a couple lectures at self defense courses. When it comes to using weapons (guns) I tell them: Before you carry a gun 1. Know how to use it. 2. If you are not willing to use it, don't carry it. 3. Have sufficient training to know when not to use it. Without getting into gun control issues (I am not anti gun and if you have a machine gun, that's okay with me as long as you leave it at home) too many people carry guns and have no business carrying them. An untrained or insufficiently trained individual is more of a danger to themselves and family members and are more likely to end up seriously injured by the gun, then seriously injured by an attacker. (Okay, I know there are other opinions and I respect your opinion if you disagree, so don't flame too bad.) Now for some other thoughts: I don't have street experience, but I do have court room experience. I will share over the next week several cases I have handled. REAL CASE #1: City Court: Assault: Maximum penalty $500.00 fine and six months in jail. Betty and Linda (not their real names) were friends that worked together. Betty loaned Linda some clothes. Then for some reason, they were no longer friends. Linda walked into a bar one night and Betty was there. Betty came over and demanded her clothes back which Linda was wearing. Linda refused and walked away. Betty followed and began to start cussing and demanding Linda take off the clothes right there. Linda said a few things back and walked away. Betty followed. More words were said and threats made, Linda walked away. Betty followed and this time Linda struck her good. Betty was bloodied and knocked down but not seriously hurt. Betty went and took out a warrant against Linda. (I have seen a lot of fights where the person that started it lost but would beat the other party to the court house to take out a warrant.) I was able to get Betty's witnesses to admit that when Betty was struck that there had some physical contact before and that Betty's hands were up and moving toward Linda at the time Betty was hit. (There was a question in evidence whether or not there had been a overt act of Betty trying to hit Linda.) Because Linda had tried to walk away 3 or 4 times, the judge found Linda not guilty. ( I personally feel that Linda punched out Betty because she was p O'd by this time and not yet in danger of getting hit.) I guess the judge just thought that Betty had been the aggressor and just would not let it go. Linda had tried to walk away several times and the evidence supported this. Of course Linda only used her fist. I doubt that the judge would have found a not guilty if a knife or weapon had been used. It would have been excessive in this case. (There are several facts I left out, but they are not relevant to the self defense issue. Neither one of these girls were really bad asses or scum. One or both just lost their temper. I will tell about some other cases later. Gary Hudgins ------------------------------ From: butch@epix.net Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 09:46:09 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #482 Posted on the ED was: This is one of the reasons I suggest to women that they get a sword for home defense. Even in a hallway where they cannot swing, rushing an edge isn't real bright. One thing that many of you don't realize is that sword fighting is truly a martial art. me: It is interesting that a sword is recommended for home defense. I think I also read that some Isreali self defense teacher advocates the sword as a personal defense weapon in Isreal. My question is: What style of sword fighting would one teach a non martial arts person to use. How long would the course be? After all, most people do not want to spend too much time learning self defense techniques regardless of the type of weapon they are being trained on. Remember, there are sword arts: foil, epee,heavy and light saber. Would these arts be considered good for self defense? Also there is the FMA. There are probably other sword arts/styles out there too. If you were to teach sword self defense, in 4-8 hours, what techniques would you teach? Also, since a long sword takes alot of room to swing it around inside a house, maybe short sword training would be recommended. Comments? Butch ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 11:47:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #483 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.