From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #488 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Wed, 17 Nov 1999 Vol 06 : Num 488 In this issue: eskrima: Magbaid sa Sundang! eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #486 eskrima: Re: Momoy and Cacoy eskrima: Re: FMA in Okinawa Re: eskrima: Re: Momoy and Cacoy eskrima: Re: Digest #486 - Swords for home defence eskrima: Cold Steel Cutlass eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Terrio Echavez Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 16:12:18 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Magbaid sa Sundang! I would like to share with you something about my father's hometown: Ginatilan, Cebu http://www.esprint.com.ph/pointcebu/facts/ginatilan.htm To this day the town of Ginatilan, Cebu has Moro watch towers. My father explained to me that long ago sentries would man the watch towers to look out for Moro vintas. When a sentry saw Moro vintas on the horizon, he would hit a gong repeatedly. Upon hearing the gong, the women and children would quickly hide in the hills; the men (a few hundred) would gather together and shout "Magbaid sa sundang!" (Let's sharpen the bolos!). The men would be waiting for the invaders with bolo in hand, and were fortunate to beat back the invaders each time until the invaders stopped coming. These many battles are an example of how the Filipino martial arts (e.g., eskrima, arnis, kali) developed. One poem by my father that was inspired by these battles is as follows: Not for the glory of winning, Not for the conquest of might, Shirking the battle is sinning, Spare me the heart of the fight, Bleeding half-beaten but fearless, God of the fighting clan, I thank thee the mother who bore, Suffered to bring up a man. I would love to hear about any other historical accounts in the Philippines like this. Best regards, Terrio Echavez ------------------------------ From: "Steven Drape" Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 16:41:10 PST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #486 your arm > >even slightly extended as you would do with a stick or sword, you will >get > >slashed to ribbons by your opponent, and even if you don't, you give him >so > >much time to react that the attack would be ineffective. > > > >This is a mute point with me because we are taught NOT to "present" our >hands during our stick & sword attacks either. If you don't extend your arm during your attack, then your range must be very close. Do you use the waist and shoulder turn to generate power, keeping the elbow and forearm close to your body? That is a corto style of play. Any other range and you MUST extend the arm to strike. Can you explain a little more how you would do it? Steve ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Steven Drape" Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 16:52:16 PST Subject: eskrima: Re: Momoy and Cacoy >San Miguel was Momoy's system, yes? Momoy split off from Doce Pares after >having a disagreement with Cacoy on how Cacoy was influencing change in DP >(Momoy was Cacoy's teacher). Cacoy was doing all the fighting and was >changing DP based on what he found that worked and what didn't (in stick >fights). So San Miguel would probably be the older more linear style of >DP. I know that Momoy's style is the older, more linear style, and GM Abner Pasa uses techniques called San Miguel this or that from it, but I haven't heard much about the split between Momoy and Cacoy. Could you give some more info? Thanks. Steve ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Kilap@aol.com Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 21:12:05 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: FMA in Okinawa Dave writes: << I have not heard from anyone on this post reguarding this question. Does anyone know of an instructor in the Filipino Martial Arts who is station at Kadena AFB Okinawa Japan? Or anywhere on Okinawa? I will be stationed there in May 00 and would like to join up with them. Please e-mail me details or reply here. >> It goes without saying that there is plenty of Karate and Kobudo but FMA your chances are slim to none. Only real chance may be to hook up with another military type. There is short stick in Kobudo, documented back in the 1800's, but it isn't widely found...it may be worth a look even just if for curiousity sake. Regards, Travis ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 18:58:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: eskrima: Re: Momoy and Cacoy > >San Miguel was Momoy's system, yes? Momoy split off from Doce Pares after > >having a disagreement with Cacoy on how Cacoy was influencing change in DP > >(Momoy was Cacoy's teacher). Cacoy was doing all the fighting and was > >changing DP based on what he found that worked and what didn't (in stick > >fights). So San Miguel would probably be the older more linear style of > >DP. > > I know that Momoy's style is the older, more linear style, and GM Abner > Pasa uses techniques called San Miguel this or that from it, but I haven't > heard much about the split between Momoy and Cacoy. Could you give some more > info? Thanks. I don't know much more than just what I've mentioned. Perhaps someone else will. Momoy was the person that taught Cacoy at the beginning. Cacoy's training began when he was 7 years old. Years later Cacoy, being the youngest of brothers (?), was the one that accepted the incoming challenges. He was also training in boxing, wrestling, later Judo, etc. Among his first changes to Momoy's style was not using a fencers grip (thumb forward) and instead wrapping the thumb. Cacoy also moved the grip forward from gripping at end of the stick to gripping a fist width up the stick. So I take it that Momoy's style was primarily a fencing style. KGuro Jon Ward told me today that Cacoy supposedly just hit the States, I'll try to call him in a day or two. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Tim Lavoie Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 21:35:10 -0600 Subject: eskrima: Re: Digest #486 - Swords for home defence In digest #486, PaulMartin wrote: > On the topic of home defense weapons: > > A sword? Let's look at the whole picture of self defense in the modern > world. A sword is a hand to hand weapon with a very limited circle of > acceptability. In this sue happy world the intruder had better die from > injuries because he could try and charge you or sue you. How would the > average conservative court system percieve a sword as an "intentional" self > defense weapon? I don't know about courts in general, but there was a specific case here in Winnipeg a while back. A couple of gents decided to invade the apartment of one young lady, while she was in it. They barged in, stuffed her into her bathroom, and told her to stay put so they could finish their business. She was alone, in her underwear, and without her glasses was pretty much blind. I don't know if she had any training, but she did have a samurai-style sword in her bedroom which she had been given as a present. She made a run for it, got the sword, and started swinging as best as she could without her specs. Not only did they leave, but she pursued them down a hall and a stairway. The end result was that the bad guys were somewhat sliced up, and caught by the police. According to the papers, at least a piece of one of them was still stuck to the wall of her apartment. Charges were at least officially considered, especially since her pursuit continued after the immediate threat had passed, though I'd be surprised if officers weren't privately rooting for her. In the end, she was not charged; if the letter of the law had been broken, it would have still been difficult to convince a jury to convict. :-) - -- Things will get better despite our efforts to improve them. -- Will Rogers ------------------------------ From: Michael Koblic Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 22:53:44 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Cold Steel Cutlass >You might want to take a look at the Cutlass, IMHO one of the best all time >close quarters weapons. With a well made one you can use both the edge and >point with equal alacrity and it is capable of both shearing and draw cuts. >Anyone with a fair background in FMA or Silat will be able to pick up the >fundamentals in a few hours and become quite good with it in several weeks >of diligent practice. Cold Steel makes a pretty good cutlass but you will >want to check out the Atlanta Cutlery model 1860 Navel cutlass, it is less >expensive and in my opinion a better design, and made with quite good >steel. (Stay away from the Museum Replicas cutlass, it is well fabricated >but the balance is off, it is too heavy, and you cannot use the point well). > Interesting. I have got the Cold Steel Cutlass. I agree with everything said in theory about it (that is why I bought it in the first place), but cannot bring myself to like it or to rely on it. Firstly, for such a relatively short implement it weighs a goodly amount (2.2. lb). Secondly, I just do not trust its grip in my bare hands (I guess in home defence scenario one is not always going to have time to put on gloves). In my tiro stage of FMA I find it difficult to translate the stick skills (and I do practice with heavier sticks, usually about 11oz and up to 1 lb) to the cutlass. The cutlass feels very slow and some of the techniques just do not seem realistic (?abanikos). I find it very difficult to stop a strike as one is supposed to due to the momentum of the blade (I shall not be splitting apples on a partner's head anytime soon). Has anybody found the same? Has anyone modified the grip and if so, how? Right now, if it hit the fan I would prefer to grab the 12" Cold Steel Kukri with a Kraton handle or even the Cold Steel Assegai with a 12" blade and a 3' handle (extra reach, but one can choke up on it and use it close up). Is there anyone out there who actually practices regularly with a heavier sword (>2 lb)? I understand that any sword over 3 lb is considered too unwieldy to use against an un-armoured opponent. Does one use more two-handed techniques? Does a "left-hand" weapon become mandatory for defense? And yes, firearm is a better choice, but here in Canada just coughing on an intruder and giving him cold is likely to get you arrested... Mike Koblic, Quesnel, BC ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 07:33:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #488 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.