From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #490 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Wed, 17 Nov 1999 Vol 06 : Num 490 In this issue: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #487 eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #489 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #487 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #489 eskrima: Re: swords was: eskrima: Philosophy? eskrima: Heavier blades. eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "paul martin" Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 19:54:06 GMT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #487 >I agree with what you've got to say with the exception of using less-lethal >techniques with a firearm. I think that's asking for trouble in a lot of >ways - you could get disarmed, the weapon could go off at an inopportune >time, Let me clarify. I wasn't saying that you walk up to someone and hit them with the shotgun, but if they surprise you, or you can't get the barrel lined up for a shot because the reactionary gap is too small, you have other options. you open yourself up in the civil case that WILL happen after the >encounter How do you open yourself up? Wouldn't show a sign of restraint and ruin an argument of intent if you shoot someone in a situation after you have tried using other methods to defend yourself?, >With a long arm, your options are much more limited. True, but the level of training and paperwork required to legally and responsibly use a long gun is a lot less than with a pistol. You make some good points. I should have been clearer on the butstroking statement. I agree with the inappropriateness of non lethal ammunition for civilian. Is the ammunition even available to civilians? Paul ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Mark Ward Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 12:00:04 -0800 Subject: eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #489 > "Have you ever shot a gun?" > "No, your Honor." [but I've FIRED a lot of them.... :-] :-) > I've found that FMA and IMA work very well with firearms technique. Agreed. > The guards are likely to be firing at fair distances. In a > home defense > situation, for instance, you will probably not be shooting from more > than a few yards away. At those ranges the rubber shot and bean bags > can still be lethal. Yep. I think using less-lethals out of firearms for home defence is a really bad idea. > You might have to use the gun in some alternative way - to redirect so > that you can bring it to bear or any of a number of other > things. Think > of the goal you wish to accomplish and consider the tool as a means to > that goal. Yes, but unlike say a stick, once the gun is out you *cannot* be disarmed or in any way let the opponent get control of the weapon. It seems to me that once a firearm is revealed, the game has changed, you cannot voluntarily let anyone close within striking distance of you. If you are in contact range you employ your MA techniques to gain distance. You don't allow the guy to close in order to use MA techniques. That is crazy, and something I'll bet we both agree on. > When it comes to risking my butt I am a pessimist by preparation. Being the optimist when it comes to preparation generally means you're not really prepared. Best regards, mfw - ----------------------------------------------------------- markfward o_o mfw@quokka.com webmaster / )o www.quokka.com quokka sports (_/ $HOME = /dev/null -- ..-. .-- @ --.- ..- --- -.- -.- .- . -.-. --- -- - ----------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: "paul martin" Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 19:59:26 GMT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #487 >I agree with what you've got to say with the exception of using less-lethal >techniques with a firearm. I think that's asking for trouble in a lot of >ways - you could get disarmed, the weapon could go off at an inopportune >time, Let me clarify. I wasn't saying that you walk up to someone and hit them with the shotgun, but if they surprise you, or you can't get the barrel lined up for a shot because the reactionary gap is too small, you have other options. you open yourself up in the civil case that WILL happen after the >encounter Thank you! I think even trained martial artist forget that the whole range of modern self defense could include the courtroom. But i don't understand how do you open yourself up? Wouldn't it show restraint and ruin an argument of intent if murder were to be argued after shooting someone in a situation when you have tried using other methods to defend yourself first? I am not saying you are wrong, only I don't follow you. >With a long arm, your options are much more limited. True, but the level of training and paperwork required to legally and responsibly use a long gun is a lot less than with a pistol for average civilians. Not everyone likes training like MA's:). You make some good points. I should have been clearer on the butstroking statement. I agree with the inappropriateness of non lethal ammunition for civilian. Is the ammunition even available to civilians? Paul ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Mike Barnes" Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 15:07:28 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #489 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<< <<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. AnimalMac, I understand what you are saying, however, I don't fully agree. It is = true that you can not do the same techniques that you use with light = swords with heavy swords. I'm fairly new at this but for most FMA isn't a = lighter sword used? (except for Largo Mano) I practice Serrada all the = time at home with a machete. It weights about two pounds and I can still = do all of the basic maneuver. If you try to do this ...lets say with a = claymore...no it is not going to work.. It sounds to me like people are = just arguing to be arguing..... Of course this is just my observation..... Mike Barnes Inayan System of Eskrima Lenoir City, TN PS..=20 I have played with a claymore and a few other heavy swords....a friend of = mine was in SCA a few years ago... ------------------------------ From: Mushtaq Ali Shah Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 13:41:43 -0900 Subject: eskrima: Re: swords Michael Koblic Writes > >Interesting. I have got the Cold Steel Cutlass. I agree with everything said >in theory about it (that is why I bought it in the first place), but cannot >bring myself to like it or to rely on it. Firstly, for such a relatively >short implement it weighs a goodly amount (2.2. lb). Secondly, I just do not >trust its grip in my bare hands (I guess in home defence scenario one is not >always going to have time to put on gloves). > >In my tiro stage of FMA I find it difficult to translate the stick skills >(and I do practice with heavier sticks, usually about 11oz and up to 1 lb) >to the cutlass. The cutlass feels very slow and some of the techniques just >do not seem realistic (?abanikos). I find it very difficult to stop a >strike as one is supposed to due to the momentum of the blade (I shall not >be splitting apples on a partner's head anytime soon). > >Has anybody found the same? Has anyone modified the grip and if so, how? I would recommend that you wrap the grip in thin leather (rough side out), I think you will find it friendlier that way. The 1917 model cutlass is, IMHO, a step back from the 1860 model. It is heavier and clumsier, but still quite usable. I have found that if you are studying a primarily stick oriented art you will have to make some modifications to your practice to begin to feel comfortable with a long blade. The first thing is to make sure that on the cut that your edge is presented properly. With a round stick it does not make as much difference, though it will still have an effect. With a blade however, having your edge even a couple of degrees out of alignment with the angle of your cut will have a profound effect. Second, learn the draw cut. Rather than trying to cleave through your target, cut lightly, let gravity and momentum work for you and draw the cutlass back toward you as it bites into your target. This produces an effective cut without working too hard, keeps your blade from getting stuck in bone and moves your hand and arm away from a possible counter strike. You will also want to practice your thrusts. In very close quarters like a hallway you will want to rely on thrusts and draw cuts as they don't require a big swing to be effective. Another thing that you will want to do is get some good tape and mark out a human outline on a wall and add your angles on it, though you will want to modify it from the standard "star" pattern (+ and x). Move the lines around to reflect actual targets. For instance you will want to practice a horizontal strike higher than is normally done in many styles of the fma. Delivering this strike to the head/neck area is different (and harder) that at chest level. >Right now, if it hit the fan I would prefer to grab the 12" Cold Steel Kukri >with a Kraton handle or even the Cold Steel Assegai with a 12" blade and a >3' handle (extra reach, but one can choke up on it and use it close up). Both of these would no doubt work well in such a situation, though for a hallway I think I would prefer the Assegai. >Is there anyone out there who actually practices regularly with a heavier >sword (>2 lb)? I understand that any sword over 3 lb is considered too >unwieldy to use against an un-armoured opponent. Does one use more >two-handed techniques? Does a "left-hand" weapon become mandatory for defense? Hopefully we can draw Animal into this thread. It is a little known fact that he is quite adept with a broad sword and used one professionally for several years. I think that you will find that a 3 or 4 lb sword can be moved quite quickly in the hands of a skilled player. This has little to do with size, though conditioning is important. As an example I stand 6' 2" and weigh around 210 lb and I am most comfortable with a 1.5 lb curved sword, while Marc (Animal) is about half my size and is as happy as a clam if you hand him a 3 lb bastard sword. >And yes, firearm is a better choice, but here in Canada just coughing on an >intruder and giving him cold is likely to get you arrested... Personally, if I had to defend my home I would want to have a 12 gauge pump shotgun, but if I were to have to do so with a blade I could do a lot worse than a cutlass style sword, and there would be no question about the bad guy being shot from across the room. If he is cut with a short sword he had to have gotten within 3 feet of me and that is close enough to claim he posed an immanent threat in court. Wassalam, Mushtaq Ali --------------------Come visit-------------------- --------Mushtaq Ali's virtual caravansarai-------- UNIVERSES CREATED, MAINTAINED and DESTROYED -------------------WHILE-U-WAIT------------------- http://www.chatlink.com/~mushtaq ------------------------------ From: " Bad Karma " Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 13:41:15 -0800 Subject: was: eskrima: Philosophy? Chad wrote: #snip# >Also, somtimes people can read a little too > much into a statement. This causes people > to making rash and sometimes irresponsible > remarks. One statement can only be put on > the screen looking black or white. If you > can not read it understanding that every > phrase is interpretted as different by > everyone, ask the person to clarify. True enough. As you note, effective communication is not one-sided. It is quite easy to write something that will be misinterpreted. The writer is thus obligated to make his words as clear as possible, or expect misinterpretation. >"Here in Hawaii" means that that is where I > am located at, not saying that Hawaii is this > or that. May I ask the name of your teacher? - --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ------------------------------ From: "Cory Eicher" Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 16:18:46 CST Subject: eskrima: Heavier blades. I have only practiced minimally with actual heavier blades, but part of my regular workout routine includes a couple of pieces of 1 inch steel pipe the I cut down to my stick size. Each of them easily weighs 3 pounds or more, which has led my forearms to develop rather quickly. I typically run through my usual warm-ups (abenico-type wrist snaps, upward and downward figure eights), practice various sinawali's (four count, six count, upward six count, Villabrille eight), do VERY slow double-stick flow slowly picking up speed, run through single-stick serrada counters, and end with single-stick flow. Note that all of this is done solo. At first I had a lot of trouble gripping the pipe and my placement left much to be desired, even at the tortiose-like speed that I began at; but at this point I can throw fairly precise and speedy wutiks and laptiks, and even the occasional abenico. In addition to beefing up my forearms, I've found that the heavier sticks have helped me a) loosen my wrists up... if nothing else this is a great stretching exercise, and b) minimize my motion, leading to much more efficient flow from strike to counter, counter to strike, and counter to counter. As far as the application to your Cold Steel Cutlass, I'm not sure, but my guess is a few weeks of practicing with REALLY heavy things might change your opinion of your Cutlass as an effective weapon. Just my limited experience talking... Cory ========================================= Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 15:06:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #490 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. 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