From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #494 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Fri, 19 Nov 1999 Vol 06 : Num 494 In this issue: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #493 eskrima: Swords etc. Re: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #493 eskrima: Re:Salem Assli savate book eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #493 [none] eskrima: Momoy...San Miguel...CEBU ESKRIMADORS... eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #492 Re: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #492 eskrima: Cebu eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AnimalMac@aol.com Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 21:52:35 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #493 In a message dated 11/18/99 6:42:43 PM Mountain Standard Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << I believe that a person can practice with a stick and still be blade(edge) = aware... As long as you think about your stick having an edge, what would = be the difference? (besides weight... of course) Is it not having a = sharp point?.... >> physics ------------------------------ From: Michael Koblic Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 19:19:02 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Swords etc. >Personally, I'd grab my Village Chainpuri Khukuri from Himalayan Imports. >It's >20" OAL, with a 14.5" blade of hand forged high carbon steel. Unlike the >standard Khukuri that people are accustomed to seeing, the Chainpuri and >Sirupati are sleeker, lighter and more nimble. My Chainpuri fits nicely into >my FMA style and between it's size and my FMA style, I'm able to maneuver >it in >tight hallways. Bin dere, got the Sirupati! The 20" Sirupati is a lovely looking weapon. One reason I do not use it in anger is that it looks too good to be abused, the other is that I still do not like the handle - I do not have particularly large hands but the handle feels too small for secure grip and I worry about weapon retention. So sorry, but will stick with the Cold Steel Kraton. Another theoretical objection is the edge geometry - the HI kukris are much thicker than the 1/8" Cold Steel Kukri. The latter will get stuck if one tries to fall a tree with it but will penetrate flesh much more efficiently. Each to his own I guess. ..and from Animal: >Good morning! And yes that is the odor of coffee! :D Good to know that espresso smells the same in Colorado as in BC :-) >I didn't parry with the edge - puts me firmly into the parry with the edge >camp. What is left of your edge after a medium sized battle? Mike Koblic, Quesnel BC ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 19:33:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #493 > << I believe that a person can practice with a stick and still be blade(edge) > aware... As long as you think about your stick having an edge, what would = > be the difference? (besides weight... of course) Is it not having a = > sharp point?.... >> > > physics Umm... There are sticks that many of us use that are not your standard round baston. With these you get a similar feeling as you do with a blade. e.g. Serrada is a blade art, we use the stick as a blade and frequently train with blade shaped sticks, regular bastons, and training blades. It works rather well. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: SReiter000@aol.com Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 01:06:05 EST Subject: eskrima: Re:Salem Assli savate book AS promised for those interested here's some info on his book - he sent me a flyer as a attachment in a e-mail - it's a word doc however it has a pic. and is fancy - it didnt really translate to this post - anyone wishing to get a copy of what salem sent me can e-mail me at my new address - escrimador@mediaone.net SAVATE The French Martial Art By Salem Assli - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Order Form Please send me # ______ books. At the following address: Name__________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Address_______________________________________________________________________ ____________ City ______________________________________ State __________________ Zip _____________________ Price: $25.00 per book (taxes included) Shipping: Within the United States please include $3.00 for the first book and $1.00 each additional book. Please allow two to three weeks for delivery (book (s) will be sent via UPS. International please include $6.00 for the first book and $3.00 each additional book. Payment: Send Postal Money Order to: Salem Assli P.O. Box 66796 Los Angeles, California 90066 ------------------------------ From: "Steven Drape" Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 22:25:53 PST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #493 >From: steve wolk >Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 09:30:34 -0700 >Subject: eskrima: heirs in Doce Pares > >Steven Drape wrote: >"Momoy Canete's style is mostly espada y daga, and it is a >linear style, >mainly long- and some mid-range techniques. Eulogio "Inkyo >Yoling" Canete's >style was larga mano, with less emphasis on E y D, though >still blade- >rather than stick-oriented. GM Abner Pasa is the recognized >heir to >Eulogio's system." > >Recognized by who?? If you ask GM Dionisio Canete, the son >of Eulogio, >who the heir to his father's system is, I don't think you'll >get the same answer. >It is somewhat careless to only have one source when making >statements >such as these.... This reminds me of a similar claim >regarding being offered >Momoy' system. This is equally suspect. > > >Steve Wolk Steve, as far as Momoy is concerned, I heard it from him directly. I went to visit him with Abner Pasa in 1994 and had a long (the whole afternoon) conversation about the Art, Doce Pares, Diony, Eulogio and Cacoy. I learned more that day about things than I really needed to know, but I believe that what was said by Momoy directly has a lot more validity than what is now said after his death, by people who stand to gain from their statements. Concerning the heir to Eulogio's system, this comment is the first time that I have ever heard even a breath of dissent. Abner Pasa is recognized by all the Cebuanos that I know who are involved in the Art. It's not just one person's opinion. Steve ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "paul martin" Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 06:43:39 GMT Subject: [none] Marc: I see your point. It is based on the idea that you attack the intruder with the shotgun by hitting him with it as a first level of response. That is not what I had in mind. Here is my reply to your court scenario: >Evil Attorney: "So, you state you were in immediate fear of your life?" > Defendant: "Yes. As well as my family's" > >Evil Attorney: "That's why you produced this shotgun, loaded with five >cartridges of ammunition, each containing nine projectiles? >So, you were in such fear for your life that you were forced to consider >lethal force to save your life? I remind you that these were your words." > Defendant: "No, sir. I had the shotgun loaded with all purpose game load." > >Evil Attorney: "But then in the struggle with this young man, you decided >that lethal force wasn't justified and you decided to 'exercise >restraint'again, in your words?" > Defendant: No. Under the circumstances I couldn't point to muzzle of the weapon at him to get an effective shot off, so I used striking techniques with my empty hands and the shotgun to give me a chance to disengage. I showed restraint because I didn't just start shooting as soon as I had the weapon free and could aim him. I withdrew and gave him the opportunity to flee from my home which he forced his way into late at night uninvited. > >Evil Attorney: "But later in your struggle with my client, the son of this >grieving mother, a struggle where you beat him with such intensity, such >vigor, that bruises were clearly visible all over his body, (BY the way, somewhere in here MY attorney should be objecting all over the place:). Good drama though.) >you capriciously decided that he once again posed such a threat to your >life that you decided to take his life. When exactly did you make this >determination?" > Defendant: I used the appropriate amount of force to stop his attack. I never changed my mind that he posed a threat. I always felt that my life and my family's life was in danger. I gave him the opportunity to flee after we struggled and I disengaged and he continued his attack. At that point I felt that he would not stop is assault and I shot him when he attempted to attack me again. Marc, I am not busting your chops. I am saying if you are prepared for the whole range of self defense and include the courtroom as part of that prep, you don't have to be a Hapless Defendant. You are right in the idea that the armchair spectators of these events will try and win reputation and money by taking weeks and months to criticize the decisions that you had to make in the moment. That's why we train to be as prepared as possible to make the best decision we can in the moment without wasting time. Good line of questioning:) Paul ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Steve S del Castillo Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 23:40:03 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Momoy...San Miguel...CEBU ESKRIMADORS... I don't usually post but as long as we're on the subject of Momoy Canete. San Miguel Eskrima is not limited to the side thumb grip, they also wrap the thumb around the stick as in the majority of the styles. The reason for the thumb grip is for better control of a bladed weapon. It's funny how people preceive things when getting info from one source. Maybe some of you should go to the philippines and see for yourself. There are still Eskrimadors out there who can teach a thing or two. Look up Edring Casio, Cano Canete (Momoy's Son), Ben Culanag, or even Inting Carin himself, they all trained with Momoy. Even the Caburnays of the Lapunti System, they were momoy's favorite students during the late 40's. I recently trained with Edring Casio (San Miguel Eskrima Lapu Lapu Chapter) for a month and half this summer and met briefly with Momoy's son Cano. Edring Casio was Momoy's top pupil during the 70's and 80's and was one of the only people to stay by Momoy's side to his dying breath. I recently talked to him during a trip to the philippines two weeks ago and if anyone can get the message to Tom Bisio please let him know that Edring Casio sends his regards. As far as Abner Pasa is concerned when Eulegio Yoling Canete died and Abdner Pasa came out and let everyone in Doce Pares know he knew eskrima everyone was shocked. No one had ever seen him practicing let alone pick up a stick. This comes from the mouths of several "Old Guard" Doce Pares members of the early 60's and 70's. My posts are not to offend anyone but to help educate and invite everyone to come to Cebu and research for themselves who the "REAL ESKRIMADORS" are that are from Cebu. It's funny what you'll find when you look real hard...GO TO CEBU AND SEE FOR YOURSELF THERE ARE STILL REAL ESKRIMADORS THERE... if anyone needs help looking some up feel free to Email me. Steve del Castillo Doce Pares International "F@$K the talking, let's spar and see what works!!!" ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ From: "Patrick Christian" Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 05:00:40 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #492 I wrote (partial quote here:) "> A gun has only one purpose: TO KILL. " Ray Terry wrote: "Another common misconception. My trap/skeet gun's purpose is to break little clay pigeons. My target rifle's purpose is to punch holes close together in pieces of paper. My Glock .40s purpose is to defend me should I require that. In NONE of these cases is their 'only one purpose' to kill." I wrote back: I have to disagree with you ray. Skeet shooting is nothing more than practice for shooting real pigeons, not clay pigeons. Sure, you can hit a nail with the butt of your .45, but that doesn't make you gun a hammer. Nor does it change the actual purpose of a gun. The gun was invented for one reason, it still has that one reason for existence. If there was no strife in the world then guns would all be in a museum. You can do anything you want to with a gun, but it's sole purpose is still to kill. I know this sounds simplistic, however if you stand back from even the most complicated issue you will find it's simple nature. Nothing in this world is complicated. People choose to complicate them. My mom wants to buy a gun. I asked her why and she replied that she wanted to defend herself. Throughout the discussion it became clear that she could only defend herself by killing another person if necessary. It wasn't that she wanted to defend herself; it was that she might be willing to kill someone to defend herself. That is the true misconception. "guns don't kill people, "Must see TV does"!! PC Inayan School of Eskrima Lenoir City, TN ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 06:48:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #492 > You can do anything you want to with a gun, but it's sole purpose is > still to kill. I know this sounds simplistic, You are correct that it is simplistic and also incorrect. A gun has no single purpose. Is a knife's only purpose to kill? Of course not. Both are tools and weapons, YOU choose what their sole purpose is (at that point in time). Sorry, but IMHO the rest is just too silly and funny to even comment on. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 07:03:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: Cebu > GO TO CEBU AND SEE FOR YOURSELF THERE ARE STILL REAL ESKRIMADORS THERE... Agreed. And one just arrived here in San Jose, CA this week. I just spoke to Cacoy Canete on the phone yesterday. He arrived here from Cebu on Tuesday evening. He seemed happy and healthy and his laugh was a strong as ever. He will remain in San Jose until January at which time he may have to return to Cebu for the release of his bio. After which he'll return back to San Jose and then begin his world tour in March starting with Mexico City. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 06:54:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #494 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.