From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #495 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Fri, 19 Nov 1999 Vol 06 : Num 495 In this issue: eskrima: Re: stick vs. blade eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #494 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #494 Re: eskrima: Re: stick vs. blade eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #494 Re: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #494 eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #494 eskrima: Seminar Review eskrima: Brewhaha, shotguns and whimpy ammo? eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #493 eskrima: Guns, guns, guns. eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #494 Re: eskrima: Guns, guns, guns. eskrima: List down now, Happy Turkey Day! ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Frankl Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 10:54:36 -0500 (EST) Subject: eskrima: Re: stick vs. blade Ray Terry wrote: " Umm... There are sticks that many of us use that are not your standard round baston. With these you get a similar feeling as you do with a blade. e.g. Serrada is a blade art, we use the stick as a blade and frequently train with blade shaped sticks, regular bastons, and training blades. It works rather well. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com " I agree, Serrada is a blade art. I started in FMA with Serrada and was always a bit dubious about the techniques. But, when done with a blade they all make sense. The inverse of this is that in an impact weapons scenario, against a determined opponent, you would be very lucky to stop your opponent from closing, grabbing you, and then whatever else he was capable of. John ------------------------------ From: AnimalMac@aol.com Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 11:27:43 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #494 In a message dated 11/19/99 8:01:14 AM Mountain Standard Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << >I didn't parry with the edge - puts me firmly into the parry with the edge >camp. >What is left of your edge after a medium sized battle? >> A glass of wine and a whetstone. ------------------------------ From: AnimalMac@aol.com Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 11:28:53 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #494 In a message dated 11/19/99 8:01:14 AM Mountain Standard Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << With these you get a similar feeling as you do with a blade. e.g. Serrada is a blade art, we use the stick as a blade and frequently train with blade shaped sticks, regular bastons, and training blades. It works rather well. >> Absolutely, and what is the effect on such a stick if you are hit, on the flat or slightly off the edge? ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 09:10:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: eskrima: Re: stick vs. blade > I agree, Serrada is a blade art. I started in FMA with Serrada and was > always a bit dubious about the techniques. But, when done with a blade > they all make sense. The inverse of this is that in an impact weapons > scenario, against a determined opponent, you would be very lucky to stop > your opponent from closing, grabbing you, and then whatever else he was > capable of. We just train for that. Once the stick as blade aspects are learned, we examine what changes when using the stick as a stick. When Serrada doesn't want to be close (seldom) we have Serrada Larga. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: TGAce@aol.com Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 12:01:26 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #494 In a message dated 11/19/99 4:04:03 PM W. Europe Standard Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << The gun was invented for one reason, it still has that one reason for existence. If there was no strife in the world then guns would all be in a museum. >> What did the historic fillipinos practice with knives and sticks for? It shure as hell wasnt for fun and recreation. All "MARTIAL" arts were developed to kill. (martial=WAR) Tom Gerace ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 09:20:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #494 > << With these you get a similar feeling as you do with a blade. > e.g. Serrada is a blade art, we use the stick as a blade and frequently > train with blade shaped sticks, regular bastons, and training blades. It > works rather well. >> > > Absolutely, and what is the effect on such a stick if you are hit, on the > flat or slightly off the edge? That is where we train to usually take the block, it works fine w/the sticks & blades we use. But I can imagine that using a very different blade (one fairly long, reasonably broad and heavy) might change the dynamics of what happens to your grip. I'd have to play with that to see. Is that your point? Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Mark Ward Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 09:58:23 -0800 Subject: eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #494 > ... and include the courtroom as part of that prep, > you don't have to be a Hapless Defendant. Absolutely agreed. One of the best ways this was communicated to me was to envision the self defence scenario as three problems. Problem one is surviving the encounter. The second problem is the criminal investigation, the third is civil litigation. Once you get past the physical conflict, you're one third of the way there. Sobering thought for those of us who would rather ponder the wrinkles of a heavy bag than the intricacies of legal texts. > You are right in the idea that the armchair spectators... They're not armchair spectators when they're paid to do it, they're attorneys. EVIL ATTORNEYS! (heh) Truth be told, had my undergrad philosophy, rhetoric, and classical languages triple major not left me a smouldering husk after four years I probably would be one. But, I came to my senses and entered the dreamland of the internet economy. > Good line of questioning:) To use the popular vernacular: this list rules. Thanks, mfw - ----------------------------------------------------------- markfward o_o mfw@quokka.com webmaster / )o www.quokka.com quokka sports (_/ $HOME = /dev/null -- ..-. .-- @ --.- ..- --- -.- -.- .- . -.-. --- -- - ----------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: David Fulton Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 12:35:48 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Seminar Review Hi, I am forwarding the following seminar review for someone who isn't currently subscribed to the ED. Dave Fulton ==========================Forwarded Message========================= "You know it was a good seminar when you're nursing sore muscles and multiple bruises the next day :-) Yesterday I attended the knife-fighting seminar that Dave Fulton's instructor taught. I will be going up to work out with these guys again! Nice people with excellent technique. David Wink (the instructor) has an extensive background in Pekiti-tirsi among other things. I have the 1st set of the Dog Brother's videos from Panther and I have to say that the way that David Wink moves sure reminds me of Eric Knaus (he's a big guy like Eric too). I guess it should, they spent lots of time working together. The "centerpiece" of the seminar, for me at least, was learning to use the Pekiti-tirisa side-step. It is part of a very dynamic footwork method. We worked on knife-tapping drills, passing drills, free-flow, and several sparring methods. At the end Dave Fulton and one of the other local students put on the helmets and pads to demonstrate full-contact knife sparring. They were having a blast! David Wink's emphasis through out the seminar was on giving everyone a good groundwork from which to develop their own personal method. He assumed from the outset that we were going to go home and teach it to someone else, and that we were going to add in things we already knew. I met some nice people, learned a lot, and had fun! Thanks for inviting me Dave! Keith. ------------------------------ From: Todd Ellner Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 10:39:06 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Brewhaha, shotguns and whimpy ammo? "Patrick Christian" writes: Paul Martin writes "I agree with the inappropriateness of non lethal ammunition for civilian. Is the ammunition even available to civilians?" > If you feel that you need to resort to non-lethal ammo, then you do not >need to own a gun. A gun has only one purpose: TO KILL. The non-lethal ammo >is available to civilians and/or could be hand made. I prefer the 12 gauge >ammo loaded with carpet tacks. OUCH!!! They do a lot of damage to fleshy >tissue. (Good for hanging multiple pictures too!) No. A common misconception, but a misconception nonetheless. A gun's purpose is whatever you use it for. Most of the time my gun's purposes are to 1) cost me money 2) to have fun with blowing holes in pieces of paper or cracking the finish on bowling pins 3) to defend the life of my loved ones or myself. In only the third of these is killing even a consideration. And then only if the gun fails to deter the attack (and a strongly presented firearm will do so most of the time) and if the shots I fire happen to kill him. The important thing is that the bad guy stops. Killing him is a possible but not inevitable thing. As for your "non lethal" ammunition have you ever tested it out? A 12 gauge load of carpet tacks could/would do horrific things to a human body. > Since everyone wants to talk about legalities 24/7, I will add my 2 >cents. You won't have near as much of a problem if you shoot an intruder in >your home, compared to a street shooting. If it turns out the intruder >wasn't even armed, you can always rely on your kitchen knives, 'nuff said. I'm really sorry that this piece of misinformation is still running around. A half-assed forensic investigator will be able to tell that the knife was yours, the guy had it put in his hand later, and that he hadn't been carrying it. Your justifiable or excusable homicide will suddenly become murder and the felony of interfering with a crime scene. Not good. Very bad. Todd ------------------------------ From: "Gary A. Hudgins" Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 13:16:14 -0600 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #493 > Exactly. After playing with real swords when I came across Kali I was > seriously impressed with the codification and emphasis on footwork. Also in > regards to the edge to edge thing, it takes footwork for me to effectively > hide behind my blade. Footwork is something that I don't think you get a real > appreciation for until you realize you can't take a hit from an edge. > Furthermore most of my strikes come from my body, not from my arms, which > makes it even more important. Getting back to the "edge" thing. I had thought about this, but with little experience, I did not know just how you should do it. Could I get a little more input. When blocking (okay I know a lot of you say there is no such thing as a block) an incoming edge weapon such as sword against sword, do you block edge against edge, or flat side against edge. A previous post talked about using the flat side of your weapon and having the impact twist it out of your hand or having the impact break your blade. Could some of you with experience tell me a little more. Thanks Gary H. ------------------------------ From: "Patrick Christian" Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 14:57:35 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Guns, guns, guns. > You can do anything you want to with a gun, but it's sole purpose is > still to kill. I know this sounds simplistic, You are correct that it is simplistic and also incorrect. A gun has no single purpose. Is a knife's only purpose to kill? Of course not. Both are tools and weapons, YOU choose what their sole purpose is (at that point in time). Sorry, but IMHO the rest is just too silly and funny to even comment on. Why am I always attacked personally here? "The best trick the devil ever pulled, was to make people believe he didn't exist..." Can you name another purpose for an atomic bomb? a paperweight?? The more advanced technology has become, the more singular in purpose our tools and weapons have become. (except the swiss army knife). If people decide to delude themselves then who am I to stop them?(see quote above) I treat and respect my guns for what they are. If I lose that respect then someone gets hurt. If we have a difference of opinion, that's ok too. Just don't go shooting carnivorous coke cans with me. PC Inayan School of Eskrima Lenoir City, TN ------------------------------ From: "Carlton H. Fung, D.D.S." Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 12:55:10 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #494 Skeet shooting is nothing more than practice for shooting real pigeons, not clay pigeons. Sure, you can hit a nail with the butt of your .45, but that doesn't make you gun a hammer. <> Sorry, No insult intended to the poster but...Ridiculous. If that is the sole purpose who would ever own one. Anti-gunners love statements like this especially gunowners. In the USA the reason and purpose of these and other related issues starts at the Constitution and it's bill of rights, your right to life liberty blah blah blah. All of the mile high piles of BS, ad campaigns, HCI, channel 2 media hype etc... can be summed up in one small document call the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights. When you can't figure out what to do it will always be there for you at the end of the day. Abide by it, respect it, protect it! Regards, Carlton H. Fung, D.D.S. Redondo Beach, Ca. ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 13:33:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: eskrima: Guns, guns, guns. > Can you name another purpose for an atomic bomb? To deter attack. > a paperweight?? To pick up and kill with. The person's intention is what matters. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 13:30:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: List down now, Happy Turkey Day! The lists are down now until 2 December. For those in the US, Happy Thanksgiving! Ray Terry rterry@best.com ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #495 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.