From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #520 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Thur, 16 Dec 1999 Vol 06 : Num 520 In this issue: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #519 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #519 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #519 eskrima: Down LEO Down Re: eskrima: Down LEO Down eskrima: 3 Battlegrounds and LEO's eskrima: various Re: eskrima: various eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MdlAgdLftr@aol.com Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 17:36:10 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #519 Hi All, I have an addendum to my last post on LEO's and CO's, and then will give it a rest. First, let me say that I have the utmost respect for ANYONE who has ever been a bouncer...geez, talk about a hard job. Rocky was right in that I have advanced knowledge of every felon who enters my facility. They do come with a past criminal history and psychological profile to refer to in order to help prepare us for dealing with our charge's personality quirks. A bouncer doesn't have that luxury. However, that doesn't mean by any stretch that we can relax (hell no, I deal with juveniles with an average age of 17, who have committed very serious felonies. Juveniles are the worst to deal with, ask any cop). These folks are with us for ALREADY displaying extreme difficulty with following the rules of society, and a propensity for hurting people. Here's a POV to consider, though. When a bouncer has a problem and calls for backup, who do they call? The police, right? Well, when we have a problem, who can we call...we're already the cops, and have to deal with the person before AND after the incident, since their misbehavior won't get them ejected from the DOC, as it would a nightclub (actually, acting out and committing a battery behind bars just ensures a longer stay). A person attacking a bouncer or another club patron is attacking another private citizen. Anyone who willingly attacks a LEO or CO with bad intentions is a special case, a person who has no respect for authority, and is willing to do anything necessary in order to prevail (this has been proven over and over when developing psychological criminal profiles). Again, guys who bounce, my hat is off to you. You have a tough job, what with having to maintain order while avoiding the inevitable law suits, and you have to be acutely cognizant that a gun or knife could come out at any time, you don't know the person you are dealing prior to tangling with them, and your attacker probably has several buddies watching the action who are more than willing to jump into the fray themselves. But, try being on the streets or behind the walls of a correctional institution, and you will see what happens to the guys that get hauled away from your club for battering someone and having to spend a little time behind bars. Unfortunately, a stretch of time does little to an individual except harden them a little further. Kim ------------------------------ From: "Carlton H. Fung, D.D.S." Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 15:13:56 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #519 The best knife fighters are the ones you don't know about who have been there and lived to walk away. The most dangerous guys I ever met were the hardest to get to know and extract information. Regards, Carlton H. Fung, D.D.S. Redondo Beach, Ca. - ----- Original Message ----- > Subject: eskrima: knife-fighter, knifefighter, knife fighter ??? > > The list was asked: > > >who would you consider the best knife fighter(s) the > >the U.S. -- In the world ------------------------------ From: "Carlton H. Fung, D.D.S." Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 15:16:18 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #519 Here's a corrallary to MG's question. Are you better off letting Adrenaline power you letting out the beast or are you better off controling every aspect of the game and technically winning? Regards, Carlton H. Fung, D.D.S. Redondo Beach, Ca. - ----- Original Message ----- > I believe the 3 "battlegrounds" are correct, but the "mental" should be > listed under the "psychological" > and animal behavior." ------------------------------ From: Rocky Pasiwk Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 18:28:48 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Down LEO Down TIM, TIM , TIM..... Please tell me where I said the following: > > "Fight the Power/F--k the PO-lice Digest". > > > Tim Kashino > I simply said that LEO's tend to think they have more real life experience then everyone else. I never said that they all have easy jobs. Hell I am for paying them more , but increasing the quality too. Some have down right nasty jobs, in bad neighborhoods and make peanuts, ( which is beyond me why anyone would do that ). Many have it easy. Total nut jobs will attack anyone civilian or LEO, but the semi nut jobs won't mess with a badge, but will sure as shit kick hell out of anyone else.And Tim spare me the walk a mile in my shoe crap, if its that bad Micky D's is always hiring. And as for Ray boy you kiss butt with the best of them, hope you brush afterwards. :-o Read once again Ray I simple said that the more than 200 LEO's I have WORKED with RAY not Talked to WORKED understand work RAY you get it !!!WORKED WITH. They were the ones that explained to me their procedures of using volume as in numerous officers against an assailant when ever possible. On occasion the LEO isn't that lucky and has to go one on one, and hope fully they have more than the 45 minutes of training with a pr-24 like the cops in Detroit use to have. And please Kim I am sure that many police officers have horror stories it doesn't change the situation. If you want the my story is better than your story nah nah nah. I was shot twice with a shot gun, stabbed 3 times, hit with a base ball bat twice run over once, got shot at however many times 3 men with Ak's can fire in 2 or 3 minutes. Fired my gun more than any 10 LEO's probably ever will. ( Hit nothing , simply wasn't brave enough to really aim) all before the age of 23. And the worse ass kicking I ever got ( no pun intended ) was from a mule named Elmer, and NO I won't explain the last one!!!!! Boy do I feel tuff now. So take at easy I like cops I am a business man I take care of my fair share, always make sure there's coffee in the office when they stop by to shoot the S#*t in the morning. Never ask them silly questions like why can cops drive faster than anyone else on the freeway even when their just heading back to the post or going for lunch, but will give others tickets for doing the same. Amongst many other things. And one final note I will definitely agree that CO's do have to keep their S*^t a little tighter cause you are right everyone they deal with is a criminal. Rocky ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 17:08:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: eskrima: Down LEO Down > And as for Ray boy you kiss butt with the best of them, hope you brush > afterwards. :-o Read once again Ray I simple said that the more than > 200 LEO's I have WORKED with RAY not Talked to WORKED understand work > RAY you get it !!!WORKED WITH. They were the ones that explained to me > their procedures of using volume as in numerous officers against an > assailant when ever possible. Now Rocke, when have I ever kissed your flabby butt? :) Maybe you actually should talk with a few of them then. Many on one is the preference of any professional, either side of the law. But LEOs, COs et al frequently have to deal with the really serious stuff from the really serious bad guys, and one on one or worse. You frequently can't around wait for backup to arrive once the feces is already hitting the oscillator. And at those times two or four mins may seem like, or actually be, a lifetime... It is a given that bouncers and private security have an 'interesting' job, but they seldom have people wanting to kill them simply because they are bouncers. Time to move on... Happy hollydayz! Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Drew Zimba Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:13:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: 3 Battlegrounds and LEO's How come no one commented on (what I thought, anyway) was an excellent point about the 4th battleground being the legal battleground resulting from your actions? Lots of people are saying they agree with the 3 presented battlegrounds (or don't), but no one is disagreeing with the presented suggestion for a fourth. Either you didn't read the post with the suggested 4th battleground, or you're just ignoring it. Yeah, I know, legal considerations are not a traditional result of "war" as the term is generally accepted, but for the individual, it's very real. I might generalize a little more and call the legal ramifications a subset of the "Aftermath." Legal consequences are one, family/friend retribution another. On another topic, LEO's on the list are getting on the Rock's case for his comment, but you're missing his point in that LEO's are often not alone. The individual citizen just as often is alone. I'm not belittleing the fact that LEO's and CO's are often in the fray for real, but hopefully your support is in place when it happens. If you've gotten into something with out some kind of backup close by, or at least letting others know that SOMETHING is happening (even in the most general of terms, like "Car 59 to base, I'm getting out of my vehicle now to check something out."), then YOU'VE SCREWED UP! This relates to the 4 Battlegrounds question in that if you have NOT screwed up, you have a psycological advantage in any resulting conflict. Maybe the worst happens and you're torn limb-from-limb, you still passed KNOWING that immense amounts of force will be brought to bear against whoever did the tearing, that your family will be taken care of, and that your mourning will be public. That is an advantage! The individual has no such assurances. Putting on my flame-retardant jacket now... Drew __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: "steve reiter" Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:20:18 -0800 Subject: eskrima: various hi Nolan and Dave - Rick Fowler (sp?) is the guy in Texas who taught Jeff Speakman Marc: just got out of class where I had a pleasant experience with marc as my training partner - gees - all of the y2k apocalyptic prophase's must be coming true - all nations at peace - end of mankind - ect. to ray: me:- I have to respond - ray: Try harder... me:- don't think you'll find many turn the other cheek types on the digest, and certainly not at my house - I'm a eye for an eye tooth for a tooth kinda guy- Marc writes: interesting observation - since I gave you a very broad statement as to what the article might be about 9 months ago- I also told you that at the behest of the editor - he specifically asked me to write a "controversial piece" for him, as controversy sells mags --(sure got everyone in here's interest, didn't it?) seems prophetic - since the editor didn't really know me very well, that he intuitively pick up on a propensity - I was man enough to call to - let you know that something might be coming out - not to get upset ect.- here you seem to be it as some sort of magical insight - and as ammo to take a jab at me - so - I guess that was a short live truce - I'll still refrain from bringing out he big guns - however you have the gist of the article wrong - I told you I wasn't going to give it away - so you could beat me to the punch - with an article describing the techniques I cover - it wouldn't be the first time you've taken techniques and not given credit where it was due - guro Dan was mighty pissed when you publish the stick chokes on the ground that we were covering and didn't give the proper credit as to who's techniques they were. as far as cleaning up the writing -, well I'm sure that comment cant be directed towards my intellect, since Sunday you praised me for having a higher intelligence than most. so it must go to the matter of spelling - granted, in the heat of passion I will send something off with spell checking first - but I have bigger fish to fry to worry about the minutia of something so trivial as correct spelling - not to mention the fact that EVERYONE - when write something may miss a word or commit a grammatical faux pau - obviously you can under the words I'm writing (if not the intent/content) enough to respond so it couldn't be that bad - you of course could always skip any post I make- thereby alleviating and retinal damage. ME: > I don't begrudge anyone > success - like I've said, I think marc's a master at marketing - whether or not here's substance behind the product is of little consequence - I love > success stories - Sear's - micro soft - famous Amos - all of them.> marc: < I can't imagine where I get the idea that there are insults mixed in with the compliments , , , > I see no insult here what so ever - have no idea what your thought process might be - as to the "marketing" term - which you seem to have so much problem with - (although I meant it in a complimentary way) - perhaps a better choice of words would be to say"as a master of self promotion" or "PR" if you prefer, maybe "publicity", I use the terms interchangeably -let me know which one you like best and will confine myself to using that term when trying to give you a compliment about the job of bring dbma to the consciousness of the "masses" - I didn't mean to elude that what your doing as a money making venture - however I do recall a conversation we had - where I was commenting that it's nice you didn't have to work because of (I wont say the reason) and you said - well, yes I've set myself up so that I don't have to work a regular gig - but I do work - the dog brother thing keeps me very busy - ect. ect . - I'll let that stand for itself - and let the reader draw their own conclusions - it is as I thought, however thanks for clearing it up as for the rest of the diatribe - not sure what spur it on - but I agree with everything you say there - Jon writes: why don't you go out and buy the series (just trying to keep marc in the lifestyle he's grown accustom to, while taking a swipe at Jon at the same time) < mr reiter learn to spell?> no I wont - hey Einstein didn't even know his own phone number - I would suggest you too, skip over any post I write if it so offends you delicate sensibilities as to grammar and punctuation , however, since you seem to hang on every word of my tomes - perhaps you might try - cutting and pasting into a word processing product - then perform a spell checking function - so as to facilitate more enjoyable read - and allow you not to miss a single morsel of my delectable prose. to drew: what ever it means to you - just clarify which aspect or attribute of the fighter that's makes you consider him/her the best Steve ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 19:32:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: eskrima: various > to ray: > me:- I have to respond - > ray: Try harder... > me:- don't think you'll find many turn the other cheek types on the digest, > and certainly not at my house - Turning a cheek is not expected. Keeping your word is... Remember that you can always take it to private email and in some/many cases that is expected. Or at least keeping your posts down to 3K when it is your final last final last word... Ray "Am I in the holiday spirit or what?" Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 20:05:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #520 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.