From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #522 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Fri, 17 Dec 1999 Vol 06 : Num 522 In this issue: eskrima: Indian Clubs eskrima: Marc Denny Seminar/DB Vids/Xmas eskrima: Getting it staight eskrima: Re: LEOs eskrima: Re: The best knife fighter in America eskrima: best knife fighter eskrima: Re: Down LEO, Down eskrima: Re: LEO/CO side comment eskrima: teaching marc eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mikal Keenan" Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 12:24:08 -0600 Subject: eskrima: Indian Clubs Greetings... Has anyone here ever used Indian Clubs? Know a source for purchase of Indian Clubs (wooden)? Thanks. Be well, Mik ------------------------------ From: "billlowery" Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 18:13:05 -0000 Subject: eskrima: Marc Denny Seminar/DB Vids/Xmas Hi All, Just to let all the UK readers know that Marc Denny (Dog Brother/Kali God/Zen Bhuddist - ;-)) will be doing an evening seminar on the 23rd May 2000 in Newcastle upon Tyne. Drop me a line if you want more info. Hi Jon, At an early point in the DB video series, it is made clear that the fighters aren't identified so as to avoid people rooting for an individual. I believe the idea was to get people to focus on the techniques being used not the personalities involved. And finally (last ever/final etc) Merry Christmas, A Very Happy New Year and lets work for a more peaceful Millennium. Bill Lowery ------------------------------ From: Rocky Pasiwk Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 14:06:14 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Getting it staight Kim Wrote: > Rocky, I wonder that myself every day on the way to work ;-). Seriously > though, I'll tell you why I do it. I work with hard-core juveniles that have > committed very serious felonies, but are in a program within our facility to > try to learn a better way to live, > Good for you!!! You must be a master at patience, you definitely have your hands full. Believe me I do admire people in your position, you perform a service I could never do. I always wondered if the programs you here of where someone teaches kids MA's to help keep them out of trouble works. It seems to me that you could just be making a more dangerous situation for anyone they come in contact with. Have you ever been involved in one of these programs? How did it work. A friend of mine who had the unfortunate pleasure or arresting the same kid over a period of a 6 years told me the first time he arrested the kid he was about 16 or 17. They put him in some juvenile place for about 2 years. When he got out he was again arrested for b&e this time sent to prison. In prison he discovered the weight room! When he got out at 23 he got into something and my buddy's fellow worker and another officer tried to apprehend him. At over 250lbs of enormous muscle he kick the crap out of my friends, friend. Which is why I was wondering why anyone would want to teach these kids MA's. What do you think. And now for Tommy boy!!! Dearest Tommy boy writes: > As a matter of fact they intentionally try to find dangerous people and stop > them as part of "serving and protecting" society. > Well beat me with a jelly donut!! ( with sprinkles ) I thought they purposely went out and got bad guy's usually because these bad guys were reported by good guys ( civilians ) who more often than not felt the bad mans wrath, which is why he called the police. Now Tommy boy I' am going to type this verrrryyyy slooooooow cause it seems you probably don't read to fast. The following example might be a little extreme but I think even you may get the point. Lets see.... how many cops did Jeffery Dahmer beat up or attack before he decides to go on his murderous rampage. What's that you say Tommy ZERO, how about, old son of Sammy, Manson??? Ok what about the crack dealer right now who is raping, robbing, B&Eing, car jacking, some poor innocent sap, Who will and should call the police after the fact. What about the punks who just wanna go out and beat someone up!! Oh silly me that's right these punk always go kick hell out of the police first right? > Anybody else who faces that > kind of danger (bouncer or whatever) is doing it to preserve the profits of > an establishment. If a bouncer faces as much nightly/daily danger as a Cop, > than I think the communit > First of all I don't bounce for a living, I own establishments instead. If a guy makes a living keeping people inside an establishment safe, its just as honorable as being a cop. And yes there are guys who bounce because it is a cool thing and they think it makes them macho. And their are so many cops that do the same thing. you know the dark sun glasses, the military hair cut, even combat boot is some cities, come on Tom you know the attitude. In my city it has gotten so bad that people have brought the cool cop attitude to city council who are wrestling around with a way to get rid of this attitude on their force. Then Tommy writes: > stabbed etc. that many times not "in the line > of duty". I would be trying to figure out why my lifestyle (or lack of > situational awareness/control) was putting me in those situations. > > P.S. Another thing, its been my experience in the military, that the guys who > have "been in the Shit" dont tally up kills and wounds or talk about their > First of all Tom most of the things that happen to me, was when I was doing my job, Do you know me Tommy Boy??? I don't think so. I have friends that still do what I use to, 2 of them are in the Bosnia area right now. Its more money in a day ( tax free ) than most people make in a week, and its legal. Four of the 6 guys I knew that guarded are dead, and their honestly, loyalty and integrity I would put against any cop's. Secondly Tommy boy, I have been on this list, for 3 or 4 years, ( correct me Ray if I am wrong ). And I rarely if ever comment on the gun stuff ( even though I have used mine and not just at a range or read about it), nor talk about who I have beat up or how tuff I am. Fact is the older I get the wimpier I get. Which is just the opposite of what most martial artist claim. Like Marc says it seems that many a martial artist have the old " the older I get the tuffer I was syndrome ) I think as much as Ray and Marc like to poke fun at me, and we go back and forth, they would back me on this. I was just making a point with Kim. So maybe next time you should read the post a little better, by no means am I against cops. I just believe that they are everyday people, who do not have the easiest job in the world by any means, but also who are far from having the corner of real life confrontations. To everyone else sorry for the post being so long. Oh and Ray!! > Now Rocke, when have I ever kissed your flabby butt? :) > You been peeking again??? Rocky ------------------------------ From: "Todd Ellner" Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 11:54:19 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Re: LEOs It's a difficult thing. On one hand I believe that police officers have one of the most important and noble jobs there is - putting themselves in danger for the good of the community. And some of the best and greatest-souled people I've met have been cops. They really do it because they want to do their part to stop evil people from doing evil things. I count myself fortunate to have met them and honor them and what they do. On the other hand, outside of some truly evil people in the penitentiary and Wall Street a lot of the worst I've met have been police officers. Brutal, sadistic, controlling, clannish and with little but despite for "civilians". According to the FOP's studies police are about twice as likely as people of similar demographics to be alcoholics or spouse abusers. Some of it is the stress associated with the job. Some of it is the sort of person the job can attract. The vast majority, of course, are somewhere in between. And when I look at the some of the uses to which police are put by the people in charge - tax farming, racial intimidation, political thuggery, and the like - I find that I often can not support what they do even though I support many of them personally. Kind of like Vietnam. You could respect and sympathize with the guy out there in the ozone but still despise Lyndon Johnson, Congress, the Pentagon and the war itself. As with that war conditions and orders can corrupt even the best. I fear that that may be happening in law enforcement in America. Regards, Todd ------------------------------ From: "Todd Ellner" Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 12:09:17 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Re: The best knife fighter in America Let's cut out the fantasy here and take a look at reality for a moment. There are many criteria by which one could judge "the best knife fighter" - technical skills, number of altercations survived, number of body parts still attached by age 45.... The main qualification in this forum seems to be name recognition and number of videos sold which strikes me as a poor measure. A real knifer who gets in fights with other armed people probably has scars up and down both arms. He's probably missing a finger or two not to mention an eye and lots of other punctures and stitch-marks. He doesn't do videos for Paladin Press and is most likely in the joint. Someone who uses a knife in lots of confrontations with unarmed people is an assassin or murderer. Then there are those who are just plain unlucky. Their economic and social situation put them in a world where murderous violence is an everyday thing. They carry a knife for protection and have had to use it to defend themselves or settle disputes that richer and more fortunate people would sue each other over. Once again you're not likely to have heard of them. They really wouldn't appreciate having their names tossed around on a computer mailing list. On a personal note, I've been attacked by people with knives a couple times. I've had to use a blade to deter criminals more than once. I devoutly pray that I will never ever have to do either again, and I would rather do almost anything than get in a "real" knife fight. A friend was talking about her new piercings and asked me if I were going to get one. I replied "I spend lots of money and many hours every month to make absolutely sure that nobody will stick sharp pieces of metal through tender parts of my body. Why the Hell would I go out and pay someone to do it to me?" :-) Regards, Todd ------------------------------ From: Drew Zimba Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 12:14:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: best knife fighter I wrote: mean someone who can defend against a knife-wielding >aggressor? Do you mean someone whose preferential >weapon is a knife? Do you mean someone who looks to >get into conflicts in which knives are wielded by both >(all???) participants? and steve rypleid: >>what ever it means to you - just clarify which aspect >>or attribute of the fighter that's makes you consider >>him/her the best O.K. The best defender against a knife-wielding aggressor is the one who's smart enough to avoid the situation in the first place. The one who's preferential weapon is a knife is an assassin, not a fighter. The best in this category is someone none of us has ever heard of, unless you're involved in really spooky s&^t! The best in the third category is irrelevant because he won't be with the living for very long. Drew __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: "Tim Kashino" Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 12:16:39 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: Down LEO, Down Greetings to all, OK Rock, maybe I was reading a bit more into your post than was there, and for that I appologize. I will spare you from the walk a mile in my shoes stuff, if you spare the rest of us from your "been there done that" attitude. - --Kim wrote: >Here's a POV to consider, though. When a bouncer has a problem and calls for >backup, who do they call? The police, right? Well, when we have a problem, >who can we call...we're already the cops, and have to deal with the person >before AND after the incident, since their misbehavior won't get them ejected >from the DOC, as it would a nightclub (actually, acting out and committing a >battery behind bars just ensures a longer stay). Amen. >Total nut jobs will attack anyone civilian or LEO, but the semi nut jobs >won't mess with a badge, but will sure as shit kick hell out of anyone >else. Hey Rock, ever try to put resraints on a semi-nut job? The selector switch goes from semi to full the in instant you lay your hands on him. >And as for Ray boy you kiss butt with the best of them, hope you brush >afterwards. :-o Read once again Ray I simple said that the more than >200 LEO's I have WORKED with RAY not Talked to WORKED understand work >RAY you get it !!!WORKED WITH. They were the ones that explained to me >their procedures of using volume as in numerous officers against an >assailant when ever possible. I pose this question to you Rocky: In what capacity have you "WORKED WITH" over 200 LEOs? Were you executing law enforcement duties while you "worked" with them? Was it 200 ride alongs? Was it the 200 times you restrained a trouble maker at a club until the police came to pick him up? Or did you simply teach 200 cops a few things about combatives, and in the process you got to hear some of their war stories? > On occasion the LEO isn't that lucky and >has to go one on one, and hope fully they have more than the 45 minutes >of training with a pr-24 like the cops in Detroit use to have. I will concede the fact that cops often (not most of the time or all of the time, but often) have back-up available. However, it is not always right there at the very moment that a cop needs it. On many occasions a LEO has to begin handling a situation on his own before back up can arrive, often times he is already outnumbered. Back up can be right around the corner, or it may have to come from the other side of the patrol area 20 minutes away. The bottom line is this: Everybody seems to think that they know a cop's job better than the cop. Until you've experienced the job from behind the badge, you don't really know the job. Tim Kashino Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ From: "Branwen Thomas" Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 18:08:31 -0330 Subject: eskrima: Re: LEO/CO side comment Kim said: >I work with hard-core juveniles that have >committed very serious felonies, but are in a program within our facility > to try to learn a better way to live, for their benefit, and for society's >benefit. Why do I do it? Because everyone says that "someone should do >something about crime and these kids today." Well, I am doing something >about it, for what it's worth. not really eskrima related, but YOU GO GIRL/BOY (sorry kim - non-gender differentiated name, and i'm not sure which you are:) I believe you can change, if education and sensible discipline are applied soon enough; and even some old dogs can learn the new tricks, if the right combination of life happens...I learn FMA in case i run into someone who never had the chance to learn, or did but just didn't care. FMA related - i wonder how many kids _wouldn't_ have ended up in that sort of facility if they had the opportunity to learn the self-discipline, focus and self-worth you can get from training... waxing idealistic, :)jocelyne Roaring Girl * Purveyor Of Fine Books * Beater Of Bodhrans * Smiter Of The Wicked * * Owned By Angus, Most Elegant And Pleasing Of Cats * ------------------------------ From: "steve reiter" Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 15:02:51 -0800 Subject: eskrima: teaching marc I think you've transposed a few words - when we trained together last Tuesday I was "patiently teaching" you! (doubly dagga ride entries) Steve ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 17:21:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #522 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.