From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #523 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Sat, 18 Dec 1999 Vol 06 : Num 523 In this issue: eskrima: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #522 eskrima: Best knife fighter... eskrima: Ego trips eskrima: Breathing & Chi eskrima: Best Knife Fighter? eskrima: good news eskrima: MORE LEO stuff eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #522 eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: PAlbuq@aol.com Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 20:35:09 EST Subject: eskrima: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #522 Mabuhay! I VERY interested in traditional Pilipino weapons video-tapes. Rope, Kampilan, Hawakan, Bolo, Kris etc. Can anyone help me to find URLs or email addresses of masters sending tapes of these material? Thanks for attention, Paulo Albuquerque http://www.arnis.net http://www.kombato.com ------------------------------ From: KaliDave@aol.com Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 21:08:36 EST Subject: eskrima: Best knife fighter... Hi guys, I think that this is a rhetorical question one that can`t fairly be answered unbiased. If given the choice we would all choose those under whom we train and have association with which as no real bearing on the question at hand. I`ve been in the martial arts for 23 yrs. and the last 18 yrs of that have been in the Malay warrior arts ( Pilipino, Thai and Indonesian). And over the years i`ve trained under Guro Dan Inosanto, Alfonso Tamez, Ted Lucay-lucay, Leo T Gaje jr., Edgar G Sulite and briefly with Eddie Jafri (here in Los Angeles during the early 80`s). All of these people are / were excellent with their knife work to say the least. But can one really be picked over the other ??? Guro Dan Inosanto is a walking dictionary when it comes to pilipino warrior arts and I would challenge you to find a more knowledgeable or skilled person than he within this genre of warrior arts. Alfonso Tamez was pure street having grown up in Tijuana Mexico having to deal with knife fighting on a consistant basis for survival and his street attitude in my opinion made him one of the deadliest instructors to have ever taught at the Inosanto academy (Torrance Kali Academy) in the early 80`s. Tuhon Leo T Gaje jr. where do I begin with this man not only is he a great knife fighter but he has the rare gift of being able to transform his students to become just as good as he is himself. I`ve found very few people as talented or giving as this man is. Ted Lucay-lucay had the quickest hands on the planet and when he put a knife in his hands he became a technician. I was truely amazed at how fast and precise this man could move with or with-out a weapon. Punong Guro Edgar G. Sulite was just scary... This mans aggression, precision, recovery, feinting, speed, power and positioning with a knife in his hand was something awe inspiring to witness. Just when you would think that you had him figured out he would switch to a higher level and make you feel as if you knew nothing... What more can I say about this man, he profoundly changed my life and the way that I perceive pilipino warrior arts to be. Eddie Jafri, this man always had 6 knives on him somewhere and did`nt mind using them on you if given the opportunity. His approach was total non-cooperation and he applied his "key for every lock" philosophy very well when it came to knife work. I think that he was so deadly mostly because for someone so small he was very non-assuming. Eddie Jafri was a master at using his small size to his advantage. I`ve trained under numerous masters in the Philippines, Indonesia and Thailand over the past 18 years as well and have found many who were phenominal knife fighters. Most of these men are`nt well known so they would`nt be counted among the best that the world has to offer, however you can`t overlook someone just because his name isnt being constantly thrown about in the public eye. Most people with whom i`ve trained in the phillipines were more into the survival aspect of the warrior arts as opposed to marketing what they knew and themselves. Who`s the best knife fighter? I suppose it would be the ones who survived and lived to tell about their experiences, at best I think that you can only judge who is the best from fight to fight. Anything more than that would be an injustice to many fine eskrimadors and warriors living and willing to share their secrets with those who seek them out. If you want to find the best knife fighter I think that you would be hard pressed to actually find him. It`s been my experience that it would most likely be the one with very little to say or the most non-assuming person who just goes with the flow of things having nothing to prove to anyone but himself. I can`t remember once when i`ve heard Guro Dan Inosanto, Ted Lucay-lucay, Punong Guro Edgar G. Sulite or Tuhon Leo T. Gaje jr. say that they were the "best of the best" or a "Kali Demi-God". Instead of glorifying themselves they allow their movements to speak for them and their abilities. We as martial artists should`nt be so caught up in where everyone else stands in the ratings as we should be concentrating on our own abilities and shortcomings. Instead of trying to find out who the best knife fighter on the planet is you should be trying to be the best "you" that you can be. I`ve heard it said that information is only potential, it takes action to make things happen... Take care guys. ~ Guro Dave Gould ------------------------------ From: "big Joe A." Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 19:22:24 PST Subject: eskrima: Ego trips Hello all, I just need to say a few things. I've got a question for all of you. What is this Digest all about? Is it about who is better then who or he said she said political crap. Or is it about a bunch of martial artists getting together to respectfully discuss topics and share ideas without the political borders and one upmanship often found in the filipino arts? When I joined the list about two years ago I thought it was about the latter but lately i've been seeing a lot of b.s. being thrown around the list. He said this. She said that. My teacher is better. I kicked his butt. No, I kicked his butt. No, I was just taking it easy on you. Oh yeah well I taught you this. Honestly people I'm getting tired of all the bickering. Are you children or adults. Grow up and get over yourselves. You all need to take a step back and really look at yourself. Everyone of us is a flesh and blood human being. We are all born, live, and die. There isn't a single one of you who if I shot you in the head would live. Remember we are all mortal and there is always someone bigger, better, and worst then you out there. And about the LEO thing like with every other group of people there is the good and the bad. I've run across cops who thought they were god and I've met cops who were the nicest guys in the world. Just like i've met martial artists who thought they were the sh*t when they just smelled like it and ones who could really whoop ass but were complete gentlemen. Please stop the madness so we can get back to learning something. Peace and respect to all of you. This reality check has been brought to you by certain people who just got on my last nerve. No names will be named but I hope this benefited those that it was addressed to. Your Long winded friend, BIG Joe P.S. I wanted to do this several issues earlier but I just held it in till a really stupid remark in the last issue pushed me over the edge. For those of you who absolutely need to get the last word in get over it. It's really irritating. Nuff said. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "BILL MCGRATH" Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 23:17:19 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Breathing & Chi Michael Koblic asked: "Tuhon McGrath: >After 6 weeks I noticed that all of my "Chi" building >exercises came rather easily to me. The question was, I think, the other way round: will practice of Chi exercises improve aerobic fitness without demonstrable increase in the pulse rate during their performance. My contention is that it does or at least prevents deterioration in aerobic capacity in a situation where one cannot run 5 miles a day. I would not go as far as saying that chi kungs will replace the roadwork, but has anybody tried this seriously? For me personally such proof would be like manna from heaven as roadwork seriously screws up my knees..." From Tuhon Bill: The following are just my own experiences from my training and teaching, so don't take what I say as gospel. While I have seen these things work, I am only guessing as to the specific mechanics of why they work. Maybe the medical doctors on the list can help us out with a better explanation of the biochemistry of endurance, but here goes... The gist of my article on chi and breathing was that many of the good things that chi is said to do for you seem to be acquired through running as well. Therefore, I would assume that much of the reverse is also true. Here is my round-about explanation: In my early 20's I had two ways of going back to roadwork after a layoff. In one I would simply start running. In the other I would do a week of one hundred reps of squats each morning prior to starting the roadwork again at the beginning of week two. Doing the squats made my legs fit enough that I really only had a day or two of transition for my leg muscles to acquire the motion specific endurance involved in running and stop being sore. When I didn't do the squats, it took about a week for my legs to stop being sore. In both cases however, my lungs (more specifically my diaphragm muscles) took a full week to stop being sore and my overall system didn't reach maximum fitness until the 6 week mark. At other times, I remember doing very long sessions (1 to 2+ hours) of low intensity footwork drills in penchak class. Breathing was involved, but my heart rate didn't go up like it would during a run and I definitely didn't get that "burn" in my lungs like I would at the end of a windsprint. Yet I noticed during this period that my endurance during sparing was close to what it was during the periods when I was running. When I moved to Texas with Tuhon Gaje, I was the assistant instructor under him at the health club where he had his school. I also had access to the gym whenever I wanted. Experimenting with the weights I noticed two exercises that seemed to really stretch my diaphragm muscles and thereby increase my lung capacity, much like wind sprints would. One was heavy lat pull downs on a machine that had sufficient length to really stretch my arms over head, while my thighs were being held down by the cross bar. The combination of the full stretch with a heavy weight and the deep breathing involved with the exercise seemed to really help me in ways I believe only one of those components used alone would not have. Another exercise was the Nautilus lat machine, which duplicated the motion of free weight pullovers, but a much heavier weight can be used. Again, I was stretching my diaphragm muscles against a heavy weight while deep breathing. Other breathing exercises can have a carryover to overall endurance. I had a student who was a professional trumpet player. He did no roadwork, but had good "wind" during sparring. He attributed this to his years of horn practice. I have heard similar stories from other instructors with students who are musicians who play brass or wind instruments. In the PTI newsletter article on breathing and chi, I raised the question "if breathing and chi were synonymous linguistically, are they synonymous in effect as well?" After doing my running routine and comparing the results with "chi" building exercises, I began to wonder why didn't ancient martial artist simply do roadwork instead of all those weird exercises? Part of the reason may be that roadwork was not practical in those days. If the tigers didn't get you the bandits would. Part of the reason may be because they wanted strength and endurance specific their needs as fighters. That may be why breathing is often done with leg development exercises and arm movements. I suspect that the endurance we need really has three components: 1. Specific muscular endurance. 2. Lung capacity. 3. System endurance (how fast can your organs clean out the waste products of excersise). Most of the breathing exercises used to build "chi" that I have seen handle items 2 and 3 well and some also help with item 1, they just take longer to burn the same number of calories as an "external" exercise like running and therefore take longer to have the same effect on endurance ). I am beginning to wonder how "external" external exercises like roadwork, bagwork and sparring really are if so much of "chi" is so closely tied to breathing exercises (which build items 2 & 3). Here is a breathing exercise I use in my classes. Take a wide stance and pull your arms over your head as if stretching when you wake up in the morning. Pull as much air as possible into your lungs, then pull some more, keeping your breathing passages open and really pulling with your diaphragm, trying to expand your chest and lungs. Keep pulling the air in for a 5 count, then slowly exhale while you bring your arms down. Do one set of ten reps. Work you way up to 30 seconds per rep. Regards, Tuhon Bill McGrath PS. An excellent read for the martial artist is "The Mighty Atom" the story of vaudeville strongman Joe Greenstein. Greenstein earned his living in "no holds barred" wrestling matches and doing a strongman act in which he would rips things apart or bend items such as horseshoes with his bare hands. Greenstein was very big on breathing exercises to increase overall strength (chi?). One of the feats of strength he performed during his act was to have a steel chain rapped around his chest and break it with just the expansion of his lungs. One of his last performances of this feat was in the early 1970's at Aaron Banks' Oriental World of Self Defense when Greenstein was in his 70's. ------------------------------ From: "BILL MCGRATH" Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 00:19:25 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Best Knife Fighter? Steve Reiter asked: "Question to the digest: - who would you consider the best knife fighter(s) the U.S. In the world?" No surprise in my nomination - Tuhon Leo Gaje. I consider him the best in the following three categories: 1. As a knife fighter. The last time I worked out with him was in 1996. He is almost twice my age and still I would not want to get into a knife fight with the man. I have had students who had lots of knife experience such as Vietnam vets with sentry removal experience, ex-bikers, street fighters, etc. and Tuhon Gaje is the most dangerous man with a knife I have met bar none. 2. As a knife fighting instructor. Part of it is the Pekiti-Tirsia system itself and part of it was the way he taught it to us. Not as just a group of techniques, but as reaction within our own bodies. 3. As a promoter of the Filipino Martial Art of Knife Fighting. The Calibre Press video "Surviving Edged Weapons" (in which Tuhon Gaje stared) has probably done more to raise public awareness about the dangers of edged weapons than anything else in its field. Calibre Press has said that this video has sold over 500,000 copies. I remember the reaction of many instructors (both in the FMAs and in other MAs) when first learning Pekiti knife under Tuhon Gaje. It was like going from flintlocks to machineguns. Many of the older list members can also remember the seminal change that occurred in the martial arts community in the U.S. in regards to what was known about knife technique after Tuhon Gaje began giving seminars and appearing in articles on the subject. When I was traveling around with him in the mid 80's I heard many Filipino instructors say to me, "Eskrimadors will argue among themselves about who has the best stick, but they all respect Gaje as having the best knife." I would hazard a guess that the majority of instructors of my generation and younger who will be named on this list as great knife fighters have been influenced by Tuhon Gaje and the Pekiti-Tirsia System, either through direct instruction under him or through their teacher or their teacher's teacher who had trained with him. In an age in which every Tom, Dick and Harry has come out with a "Knife Fighting Instructional Video" for fun and profit, Tuhon Gaje has chosen to train students individually, in techniques proven by time and blood. On the PTI web site you will find a quote from Guro Dan Inosanto. It reads: "In the field of strategic knife defense, the Pekiti-Tirsia System of Kali is THE most progressive, practical and sophisticated system of tactical knife self-defense and edged weapon awareness that I have encountered." The best knife fighter in the world? Tuhon Gaje gets my vote. Tuhon Bill McGrath ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 22:30:52 -0800 Subject: eskrima: good news A Howl etc: In a random moment of lucidity, the US Supreme Court has affirmed without comment a 4th Circuit Court of Appeals decision allowing a "rough and tumble" Karate school to bar someone with AIDS from participating in class. Crafty ------------------------------ From: TGAce@aol.com Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 06:15:25 EST Subject: eskrima: MORE LEO stuff In a message dated 12/18/99 2:29:07 AM Central Europe Standard Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: <> Well, reading wasn't something that was stressed in graduate school....But anyway, I was taught in MP school that PART (as I stated in my original post) of law enforcement duties include patrols, as well as answering calls. Since you appear to be ignorant of that fact ill explain, no that would confuse you, let me sum up. A patrol is when you travel an area looking for suspicious activity, known criminals, checking the security of certain establishments, etc.etc.. Yes many bad guys are caught by answering calls, but many are caught on the road in traffic and felony stops as well. << Do you know me Tommy Boy??? I don't think so. I have friends that still do what I use to, 2 of them are in the Bosnia area right now. Its more money in a day ( tax free ) than most people make in a week, and its legal. >> Hmm....Yeah Rocky, Ive met you (Buffalo area seminars) cant say I was very impressed. And all your "used to be" quazi-military/bodyguard/ Merc war stories are conveniently "top secret", vague and unverifiable. By the way, why don't you give me some names of your Bosnia "Friends" cause that's where I am now. Gee, I hang out and "talk" with Rangers and Special Ops people all the time, I guess I better get me some tabs to sew on. Give me a break! The only point I really want to make is that an attack is an attack. Its no more "real life" to a civilian than it is to a cop. Its just that cops have to face it every day as par for the course. Civilians should be trying to avoid first and fight as a last resort. Sgt. Thomas Gerace 105th MP Co. Camp Eagle Base Bosnia Done all kinds of cool shit but wont tell you about it. ------------------------------ From: MdlAgdLftr@aol.com Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 09:50:14 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #522 Hi again, < Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 12:00:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #523 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.