From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #20 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Sat, 15 Jan 2000 Vol 07 : Num 020 In this issue: eskrima: power/deflect/block eskrima: purity of style in NHB eskrima: Workout in Dallas eskrima: Targets & Legal Defenses eskrima: NHB and Silat eskrima: Power vs deflection (technique??) eskrima: Re:Silat eskrima: Re: Power vs. deflection [none] ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, and Inayan Eskrima Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Carlton H. Fung, D.D.S." Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 08:18:50 -0800 Subject: eskrima: power/deflect/block Either wastes time. The key is the ability to intercept powerfully and quickly deflecting an incoming blow. You are thinking the JKD bandwagon again but go beyond that, the FMA has been doing it forever. Regards, Carlton H. Fung, D.D.S. Redondo Beach, Ca. - ----- Original Message ----- > >What do the digest members think holds more importance to themselves? > >The ability to hit hard and fast with power or the ability to > >deflect/block? ------------------------------ From: Bladewerks@aol.com Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 12:23:36 EST Subject: eskrima: purity of style in NHB In a message dated 1/15/00 10:57:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << www.pekiti-tirsia.org/ManoBaston The question of style purity or maybe a better way to put it would be singleness of style in NHB fights,im not sure.Anyhow I dont think the animal exist, be it Silat,JJ,Boxing,Wrestling,Karate,or any other so called style.They never have existed in NHB fights on the street or in a NHB octagon or ring.Even the "purist" of styles deferge from there starting point when they are confronted with something to which they must adapt.A TKD fighter may be good but the reality is he will have to adapt to things such as ground fighting if he wishs to survive in NHB.Everyone reading this is already aware of that truth.But there are thousands of TKD stylist who are not aware.Im not picking on TKD.The same could be said of a good boxer.The same could be said of a good wrestler.Some styles are better prepared for NHB fights in a ring or octagon.Such as BJ,but even BJ had its "evolution" and deferged from a "purist" view point.Im sure Silat is taking the same evolutionary path in some circles.But is it still Silat?I think it is.Is boxing skills still boxing skills if i learn to grapple and ground fight? I think so.Glimmers of the art show through in NHB fights.But only Glimmers. And when an over abundance of attention is payed to NHB "sport" fighting,something is lost concerning things such as eye attacks,biteing,clawing,maiming,ect.ect. Im sure ive went off the path to Crafty's question but hey its a lazy Sat.morn and im rambling on! :) In closing,i'm still convinced that {against a "real" opponent} that there is no pure style.They are all just starting points.Its just a question of who has better demand of thier bodies/mind and of the Universal Princibles of Combat. barry ------------------------------ From: Wschpunyo@aol.com Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 12:42:51 EST Subject: eskrima: Workout in Dallas Greetings. I am going to be in Dallas, TX for four days the week after next. Can anyone point me to an FMA/JKD school or club in the DT Dallas area. I am looking for a place or person to work out with and exchange ideas/techniques. I'll pretty much be stuck DT the whole time due to my work so I probably won't be able to get out to the burbs (no car either). Any info would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance. William Schultz PCMA/FCMA ------------------------------ From: "Mikal Keenan" Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 14:45:10 -0600 Subject: eskrima: Targets & Legal Defenses Some time ago I concluded that the best targets for my family members to use in self defense include exterior palvis and legs. The reasoning is driven by numerous accounts of how juries can be made to react to cutting patterns which make a perp look like a victim, e.g., "defensive scars." Fighters of varying temperament and ability we are, but no matter what our "style" or ability and no matter how "righteous" our physical defense may be ... we will still have to face people who may think very differently about our actions -- and who may be assigned to determine our fate in the legal system. So, blade or stick ... I focus on targeting things that will disable an attacker's ability to continue their attack ... targets that may not be fatal if they get medical attention soon enough or apply tourniquetting (naw man, I ain't gonna do that for'em ... sorry ... tell'em what to do for themselves before they pass out or something). I think that we have to be careful that our mindsets may be interpreted as contrary to civilized life otherwise ... and juries will respond accordingly. If a person's attack requires their ability to stand, then much of my job is done if I can remove that ability. Of course there are other factors to consider ... I'm just focussing on this one for the sake of this stream of thought. Hey ... can you imagine what someone who knows nothing about martial training would think of these militray-combat-like techniques talked about here? For example, attacking the "pelvic triangle" (the Genitals, etc. thread). I have to think that John and Jane Doe might think "Well why'd you haveta cut him there Maynard? With all your skill you coulda cut him anywhere you wanted, but goldangit, you so mean you had to do something like that! Lock this one up judge!" OK, enough of my noise. Just thinking about how some "less enlightened" people might respond to some of the things that we might do in self defense. Me, I'm going to stick with sending heaviest impacts/injuries to bony places and away from body cavities unless the scenario is "life or death." If using the blade, how about targeting cross fiber to quads, glutes, hamstrings, etc.? Any comments? If using an impact weapon, how about clavicles, shoulders, elbows, hands, pelvic crest, iliotibial band, knees, shins, etc.? Be well, Mik ------------------------------ From: "Eric Primm" Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 15:18:13 CST Subject: eskrima: NHB and Silat I am a fan of NHB fights, and I am a big fan of Harimau silat. I train in a grappling style, and I train in Mande Muda pencak silat. The groundfighting that I have been taught has been enhanced with the silat that I am learning. I think that if many of the athletes took the time to look into some silat, they would see many useful things in silat. Yes, silat does use what is considered "dirty" fighting in NHB, but if an athlete is training for a specific fight, he/she can leave out the eye gouges, biting, etc. Also, the first time I learned puter kepala (silat throw), it was from my grappling instructor, not the silat guro. As my Kali instructor says, "Everything is useful if your opponent gives you the opportunity." Just my $.02! Eric Primm ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: hec mail Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 13:44:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: Power vs deflection (technique??) I would have to say that they are both very important. Especially when you are playing with anything that is not a blade. In the begining, it is more important to learn how to strike with accuracy and power. This will at least give you a very basic defense & offense foundation while you're learning more intricate techniques of your system. Eventually, the two sides will become one. You definitely need to have both if you are playing with a skill player. John Lau ____________________________________________ Service Brought To You By http://WWW.DWP.NET ------------------------------ From: "Todd Ellner" Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 14:57:49 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Re:Silat [Crafty asks if there are techniques in Silat which do not depend on hitting first] Certainly. But "Silat" covers a wide variety of things, much more than the Mande Muda and Bukti Negara/Serak which are what one mostly sees in North America. There are styles which are almost entirely hitting and others which do very little striking at all. Even within the same style there are great differences between individual teachers. For example, the last time my Serak teacher went to Holland the practice sessions he attended focused mostly on hitting combinations. He does a lot more unbalancing and throwing. In any serious martial practice one assumes that the opponents are at least as physically impressive and well-trained as oneself. A technique which you could make work with no problem on an untrained person will be harder to pull off against someone competent. There are various things you can do to improve your chances. If you have excellent timing you can use that. In the early UFCs we saw Royce Gracie fake high and then go low at just the moment when his opponent was reacting to the fake. The same sort of thing applies in the Silat taught by many gurus. Speed, deception, or setting him up also work. It is often easiest just to hurt him before doing whatever else you were planning on. So yes, there are plenty of Silat techniques which don't require hitting first. But if you are going to use those against a good opponent you have to rely on something else to make them work. Todd ------------------------------ From: Chad Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 18:09:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: Re: Power vs. deflection I posted the question, so here are some of my thoughts and why I asked: When we were taught (and continue to learn) we were not taught to hit super hard(Chad, James, Stuart, Kalani, etc.), we were taught todeflect and flow. Our instructor is very good. I hope to someday be like him in so many ways. I think to get to the place of "mastery" or highly efficient body mechanics you have to start walking down the path. Thats we decided to make ourselves "face" the stick. When we started fighting we quickly learned that feints and the ability to hit hard was/is very usefull. Like Kalani pointed out, if I can throw 100 hard fast hits out at you, you probably can't stop it all. (I said probably unless you're meeting that old Filipino man that walks around with that nice dark ebony wood cane and looks like he has Mighty Mouse hiding in his upper forearms.) James' counter to this is to dance around right out of ranges. Believe me when I say centimeters to 3 inches outside of the tip of your stick. The both are very important like yin to yang in it's own way. I feel the down side to only hitting hard is that the harder you hit the harder it is to recover. I feel the down side to only blocking is that you probably can't block stop all the hits of someone with a fast stick and good feints. Unless like Kalani said you have that intimidating powerful swoosh of a rattan that makes the guy double think about leaving himself open to it. BTW, the St. Foom prayer is one we frequently pray every Sunday. All in all, I believe that both do need to be learned, however hitting hard and fast would probably be better for the young 20 to early thirty crowd while as the tooth gets longer, (I don't know, I'm not there yet) the deflections may be a better choice. I aim to efficient at both right now today, though. Of course, footwork is a must for both, although they both have needs of different types. ===== "Draw me not without reason, sheath me not without honor" Chad Hawaii __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 18:36:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #20 *************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, and Inayan Eskrima Standard disclaimers apply.