From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #23 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Mon, 17 Jan 2000 Vol 07 : Num 023 In this issue: eskrima: Mr. McGrath's article eskrima: 1000 techniques eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #19 eskrima: Re: Interesting Story?!? eskrima: Ann Arbor? eskrima: interception eskrima: header shirt eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #19 eskrima: silat in nhb eskrima: rogues gallery eskrima: silat in NHB [none] ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, and Inayan Eskrima Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sikal@yahoo.com Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 19:00:38 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Mr. McGrath's article With only 5 years in the FMA/IMA, I don't think I could be considered your peer per se ... but I'll gladly give you my thoughts regarding your Earth, Wind, Fire, & Water article. I loved it. It says everything that I try to get across to people who ask the very questions you posed in the article. I received my instructor certification about 4 months ago and have been far more active in teaching at the school. I realized a couple of years ago (when I decided I really wanted to teach) that, in order to teach effectively, I had to have as much info as I could about a variety of subjects because I never knew what kind of question I might get when trying to teach. I love the elemental analogy. I'm very much an "earth" fighter ... but in order to keep up with my "water" instructor in sparring, I had to develop attributes of "fire" and "water." To try to teach someone who is "wind," I have to have at least a rudimentary understanding of that element in order to communicate effectively with them. In short, it's a very good article. I look forward to reading it in IKF (I assume you'll have accompanying pictures ... they always help me read :-) Regards, Mike ==== Never explain - your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you anyhow. -- Elbert Hubbard ------------------------------ From: Bladewerks@aol.com Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 21:32:33 EST Subject: eskrima: 1000 techniques Im in complete agrrement with Arlan on that thread.PT is a great style but it comes down to what im looking for as an individual.Some people love the cultural history of the art,some love the exotic appeal,some want to be instructors in a given art and therefore must know the 1000+ techniques in order to advance in rank and preserve the style and pass it on.Some want a little of each or maybe a balance.Nothing wrong with those things at all,but confusion arises when any of these get mixed up with the desire to learn the most likly to succeed fighting skills.(which i might say is a long enough study in itsself)At least a long time to master. This is not a quick serve McDonald attitude, it is a "form follows funtion" mentality with an understanding that for someone looking for "real speed/contact" fighting knowleadge, people will always be before systems.Be it Boxing/Wrestling/BJ/Filipino Arts or anything in between.There are no shortcuts.But there are shorter paths to a goal.It takes Blood--Sweat--Tears on any serious approch at becoming good at anykind of fighting skill.Athleticism,strong mental control,fear manipulation,not to mention all the things that come into play while developing a personal style.I dont think these are things that any "classical" system specializes on hear in the 21 Century,Im sure things were(- A LOT-) differant when your life depended on it!! So in order to "progess" we must "digress" from classicalism,and inter into our primal fear of annihilation and death.This in not an easy thing for some people to do! As far a the little old Filipino man who subdues his attackers at age ?75--85--120? Well id say a liftime of simple basics and understanding the dynamics of a "live" situation had/has a lot to do with that.Again im not knocking classical FMA or learning 1000+ techniques, im just just saying that you have to understand what your goals are,and not to get get them confused with anything else you may see out there in the big ol' Martial Art world. Barry ------------------------------ From: AnimalMac@aol.com Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 00:10:18 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #19 In a message dated 1/15/00 8:56:49 AM Mountain Standard Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << I think that the development of the ability to hit hard and fast is more important, or at least is more important to learn first. >> Conversely, I would maintain that teaching a student how to block effectively against just such a blow needs to be taught first - especially since that is exactly what he/she would encounter coming from an untrained opponent with a baseball bat. A serious flaw I have found in much MA training is that it often focuses too much on what you are going to do to your opponent. Now putting aside all hairy chested drivel about how effective a fighting art is, let's not forget one really important fact. About half of the guys who go into a fight LOSE! That's right, at least half, if not more of people involved in a fight go in expecting to win and are rudely suprised. Way too often the guy who loses was so wrapped up in what he was going to do to his opponent that he forgot what his opponent could do to him. The guy is called your opponent for a reason, he ain't on your side! Now I am a firm believer that about 90% of all the fancy dan stuff I have seen taught as martial arts will get blown out of the water by a less sophisticated brute power move. And believe it or not I blame this on the fact that MAers tend to be an incesteous bunch. Now not that I am implying that you are horsing around with your sister - but think about this concept for a second - do we, as we advance in a system, tend to fight others who are equally, if not more, advanced in that particular system? In otherwords buckos, we train to fight train fighters. In time that tends to lead us away from raw unsophisticated power attacks. Then comes some white belt with no control, no finese and no skill who rings our chimes. (I would like to hear from any high ranking player who hasn't gotten pegged in this manner...brother, I'll buy you a beer). We often tend to write it off to "beginner's luck" or "Yeah, but if I was trying to hurt him, it never would have happened" rather than looking at the possibility that the technique itself isn't designed to withstand a direct power attack. There is an old fencing maxium "The world's greatest swordsman has nothing to fear from the world's second greatest swordsman. He knows everything the other swordsman will do. It is the rank amatuer, who will do something totally unpredictable, that will get him." If your blocks can handle a raw club swing sort of attacks, then you can get more sophisticated and intricate. However, let's remember that, if you ever have to use this stuff, the odds are you won't be facing another eskrimador . While skill and finesse will win out in the long run, if the guy is swinging a tire iron at you, the issue will be solved right off the bat. ------------------------------ From: Richard Marcaida Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 01:04:20 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Re: Interesting Story?!? .I just read a Philippine Newspaper on line and there was an article about a Filipino who claims his father Trovador Ramos beat Bruce Lee in two live matches. Apparently, the producers of that match burned the film to protect BL . The article went on to say that there is a tape out there were saved negatives of these matches. I doubt if this story is true unless some of you guys seen the saved negatives. I heard about a Filipino claiming to have been the only person to have beaten BL when I still lived in the Philippines but paid no attention to it , as a matter of fact we used to laugh about it. Wonder if he was the one. Trovador Ramos ( the one who claims to have beaten BL ) went on to develop his own art of self defense w/c is now called Tracma -Trovador Ramos Asian Consolidated Martial Arts.(anyone hear about this art?) A combination of Chinese, Japanese, Korean styles and other influences in between. Anyway, his son is now an actor and he was the one who told this story. Any of the JKD guys out there hear about this? Just wondering if this story is true. To those who are in the Philippines in this list , hear anything? Peace & God Bless, ------------------------------ From: "James Wilson" Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 00:06:00 -0600 Subject: eskrima: Ann Arbor? I will be in Ann Arbor, Michigan for the next two weeks. Anybody up there I can train with? My evenings and Sundays will be mostly free, although I will have limited transportation. Anybody? thanks, james ------------------------------ From: "Carlton H. Fung, D.D.S." Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 22:15:49 -0800 Subject: eskrima: interception I agree with some of the post and "perhaps" on other parts. You can be sloppy with a blade too to a degree. With a blade any touch is a cut and sometimes you get lucky and that is enough, while there are too many guys to list that have more heart than brains left and can take a "huge" impact. The highest form of the art is still "interception." Out of curiosity do FMA's have a term for this? Regards, Carlton H. Fung, D.D.S. Redondo Beach, Ca. - ----- Original Message ----- > But it also depend on what weapon you favor. With impact weapon the ability to deliver quick & powerful strikes is important. Blade oriented weapon, quickness & refined techniques is emphasized more. > > You can get away with some sloppiness using an impact weapon than with a blade oriented one. But overall, both attributes are important when you are playing against a skill player. ------------------------------ From: Drew Zimba Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 22:33:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: header shirt >>>> Front of shirt: From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Reply-to: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Back of shirt: Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, and Inayan Eskrima Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. >>>> Yup, I'd take one or two of these to wear at seminars. Drew __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Stuart Igarta Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 01:42:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #19 I just wanted to thank Tuhon Bill McGrath for adding us (Full Contact Stick Fighting in Hawaii, http://wwwhelper.com/sigarta) as a link on his website. Salamat Po! With deepest respect, Stuart ................................................................................. iWon.com http://www.iwon.com why wouldn't you? ................................................................................. ------------------------------ From: Patrick Davies Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 11:39:31 -0000 Subject: eskrima: silat in nhb I just finished editing the video from the last McFann UFA Instructors camp. On it he shows cross body hold and finishes. He blends it from his judo, ju jitsu, silat and shootwrestling background to name but a few. Now I have seen Marc in paulsons corner in NHB fights so I would suggest that the knowledge is similar. But you usually see what you want to see. Because they are on the ground, it is assumed that Eric Paulson, for arguments sake, is doing shootwrestling without anything else in it. I would suggest that he is using what works and that might be the inclusion of silat techniques. It may look like BJJ or something else but if it works what the hell. Sometimes the principle used, whether from FMA or elsewhere, is part of the whole so that it goes unnoticed. By all accounts it is accepted that anything can work in the right circumstances but it is our incessant need to label things, box them up as if to make things packageable that is our undoing. Pat Aberdeen Martial Arts Group http://www.mcfann.cjb.net/ ------------------------------ From: Patrick Davies Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 11:40:18 -0000 Subject: eskrima: rogues gallery I'd go for a tee shirt Ray and dare I suggest it a rogues gallery where we could view the people we talk to. Pat Aberdeen Martial Arts Group http://www.mcfann.cjb.net/ ------------------------------ From: brosterj@qesmansfield.schoolzone.co.uk Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 13:57:38 -0000 Subject: eskrima: silat in NHB I am a firm fan of the UFC, Vale Tudo, Pride etc and until a couple of years ago I was uof the firm belief that grappling type styles were by far the most effective. I train in judo and wrestling and I have done a little BJJ. One of the shoot groups in England rated me at number 2 in the country. Then I trained in silat and all that changed. I had been doing a little Harimau Silat and I went to a course with Richard de Bordes, one of his students whom I out weighed by about 30 pounds was able to throw me about and hurt me in previously unimagined ways, despite my resistance. This despite his having only trained for a couple of years against my 14 !! Further the harimau people give me real trouble on the floor. Face it, if you get a good kickboxer down, most will stay down until you finish them; the harimau guys on the other hand come to life on the floor, even if I manage a submission I have always been made to pay for it. BUT only if there really are NO rules, biting eye gouges, hair pulling etc, silat uses what many would consider dirty, cheating and turn it into a well practised weapon. Just try keepig someone in your guard or under your mount while the are biting you, just like trying to grapple with knives, it totally changes the game. Maybe if the UFC had NO rules then we might see a few silat stylists,together with some horrible injuries, even to those that had beaten them. On the wider issue of silat-type-techniques, of course there are. Just compare a typical beset type take down from serak with an O Soto Gari from judo, there are minor differences at best. Like they always say: there are only so many ways to throw, choke, lock etc someone. Mabuhay Jon. ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 06:48:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #23 *************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. 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