From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #26 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Tues, 18 Jan 2000 Vol 07 : Num 026 In this issue: Re: eskrima: Re: Silat, etc. eskrima: Baseball Bat eskrima: Ann Arbor eskrima eskrima: Baseball Bat - Slight Reprise eskrima: Block First eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #23 eskrima: Replies... eskrima: Another thing... eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #25 [none] ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, and Inayan Eskrima Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 7:03:18 PST Subject: Re: eskrima: Re: Silat, etc. > Because you have just turned what could > have been a situation that you might have escaped from by tapping, > apologizing, begging, etc. into a death match. But why fight, outside of a training fight, if it isn't real combat? IMHO, we should not bother to train for the little school-ground scuffle, but for real combat. There is no tapping-out in combat. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "Mikal Keenan" Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 09:04:04 -0600 Subject: eskrima: Baseball Bat One of the best moves that I've seen against a baseball bat is a silat-like dive inside the arc of the swing, followed by wrapping the arns and whatever else you need to do to stop the perp. Moving inside (directly in) beyond the perp's wrists negates the threat of bat impact and gives quick control of the "assailant's" arms since they're both connected to the bat. Let's say you've got a right-handed bat-swinger doing a horizontal swing R-to-L ... step in with left foot, wrap your left arm around both of the batman's arms, at the same time right palm to the chin/jaw/face/whatever you can get/claw eyes/etc., then put the knee somewhere where it will deliver some hurt ... then maybe follow up with a footstomp and/or throw. Moving in so closely, could use the right elbow/forearm instead of the palm and likewise flow into knee and throw. Could also mess up the attacker's arms right away after wrapping them, eh? Be well, Mik ------------------------------ From: "Raphael Chiu" Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 09:04:06 -0600 Subject: eskrima: Ann Arbor eskrima Hi James, I don't know of any FMA instructors currently there, although my first introduction to FMA was through a student at the Univeristy of Michigan. I would suggest checking the student organizations off the U-M website, www.umich.edu, or calling up the University's main info line. They're pretty knowledgeable of what clubs exist on campus. Otherwise, 3 years ago when I left the area, there was a Silat instructor teaching downtown a litte west of Main Street, if you're interested. He's listed in the yellow pages and has a permanent studio. Good Luck! Raphael Chiu Defensor Method Filipino Kali Eskrima Academy of Chicago ************************************************************** From: "James Wilson" Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 00:06:00 -0600 Subject: eskrima: Ann Arbor? I will be in Ann Arbor, Michigan for the next two weeks. Anybody up there I can train with? My evenings and Sundays will be mostly free, although I will have limited transportation. Anybody? thanks, james ------------------------------ From: "Mikal Keenan" Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 09:11:27 -0600 Subject: eskrima: Baseball Bat - Slight Reprise Rereading earlier post ... man, ain't no way in 4 hells I'd try to BLOCK a baseball bat unless it was a kid with a toy ... the hollow, plastic kind!!! Like the good Doctor Fung says ... MOVE. Per previous post I'd suggest move in right away, no delay. H'mm, would a similar response be appropriate for a crowbar? My previous post might apply to any situation where the attacker uses both hands to wield the weapon. May be a partial answer to attacker using one hand to wield a heavy weapon. Anyone got comments re: empty hand against single/double stick? How much crossover bwtn empty hand vs knife and empty hand vs stick? Be well, Mik ------------------------------ From: "Mikal Keenan" Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 09:22:03 -0600 Subject: eskrima: Block First [Shoulda put all of this noise in opne post ... ] Evade first. Nobody special here, but my basic formula is (in order): Evade, Control, Attack Prepare for that by training (in order): Accuracy, Speed, Power In a troublesome scenario apply these by considering : What would happen if I -don't- do X RIGHT NOW! X is a variable, eh? The form of the question is based on both preparedness and inhibition, i.e., the inhibition is needed to prevent us from acting too hastily ... but at the same time reflects immediate readiness to act or respond appropriately to the situation. X can be as simple as paying closer attention, walking away, etc. ... or anything in the opposite direction to whatever extent is necessary ... ye olde "Take it to'em." If we have the luxury of considering it, IMHO we must always consider the potential legal ramifications of our choices of actions ... sorta like the "Gentleman Warrior's" (Samurai's) Code which advised the Samurai to consider death in all undertakings ... not just because it was always possible, but also to instill more conscientiousness in how they handled themselves. The thought is related to other "social" things, like how their actions might affect their retainer, family, etc. I think it's in "Bubishi" or something like that (for details, explanation). Be well, Mik ------------------------------ From: sikal@yahoo.com Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 10:11:35 -0500 Subject: eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #23 << I will be in Ann Arbor, Michigan for the next two weeks. Anybody up there I can train with? My evenings and Sundays will be mostly free, although I will have limited transportation. Anybody? thanks, james >> I would suggest either David Hatch or Chris Malgieri. One of them is in Ann Arbor (I think it's Chris) and the other is nearby. Chris trained with David originally. Now they are both certified by Dan Inosanto and Herman Suwanda (and maybe others I don't know about). I've met and worked with them and they're both good ... not to mention really great guys (and their respective better halves are great women ... and also martial artists to boot :-) If you're interested, contact me privately and I'll get you contact information. Regards, Mike sikal@yahoo.com ==== Never mistake motion for action. -- Ernest Hemingway ------------------------------ From: "Roan Kalani Grimm" Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 09:45:29 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Replies... Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit AnimalMac-- First off, my respect to you. I have several of your books, and have found them to be full of true, no-bull information. You as well as the Dog Bros. helped to open my eyes as to fighting for real. But on the deflection vs. power issue, I've had my bell rung by the power playing novice, and my technically superior attacks that got in didn't have the power to stop him, so I continued to eat stick. In you book "A Professional's Guide to Ending Violence Quickly", you advocate hitting hard and fast! Which is simply my point, I'm going to teach a student to hit hard first, and once they have an appreciation for the type of power they'll be dealing with, then teach them the deflections because they'll have an incentive to learn the deflections properly. Another thing I teach them is that if someone has a tire iron, get the hell outta Dodge, if possible. Hell, that's why I bought your "Street E & E" book. By the way, for anyone interested in reading material dealing with the reality of the streets, check out AnimalMac's books, they're excellent and so damn funny they're easy to read. And Mike Barnes-- You wrote: >"The largest of trees >can be felled with the smallest of hatchets." I think this is very true. = >If you don't have power and you have a good defense then your chance to = >get in more shots than your adversary will be greater. Plus if you know = >what you are doing...you should know where to hit. Don't get me wrong, I respect your POV, but a larger harder hitting ax can bring the tree down faster. And I do know where to hit, it's just that I'm no master yet (unlikely if ever), so actually hitting my targets on a moving opponent who is not dummying for me makes it kinda hard. So I just swing hard first and deal with what's left after. Again, all this is just my humble opinion. Peace, respect and an open mind. Aloha, Roan Kalani Grimm "We must remember that one man is much the same as another, and that he is best is he who is trained in the severest school." -- Thucydides ------------------------------ From: "Roan Kalani Grimm" Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 09:46:46 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Another thing... Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Oh yeah, Ray, I'd buy a couple of ED t-shirts myself. So bring them on!! Aloha, Roan Kalani Grimm "We must remember that one man is much the same as another, and that he is best is he who is trained in the severest school." -- Thucydides ------------------------------ From: AnimalMac@aol.com Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 15:33:25 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #25 In a message dated 1/18/00 7:49:07 AM Mountain Standard Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Just my impression marc, but you seem to argue both sides of the fence here. >> Hah! Show me where in my contract it says I have to be consistent! :D >One of the things I learnt from Rick Young is that a trap will be ineffectual if someone doesn't know how to punch properly. Exactly my point. If you don't know that when some bubba you cut off in traffic gets out of his truck you're going to discover that fact the hard way. The problem is even as you are sitting in the dentist's chair trying to figure out what went wrong, you may never realize this was the source of the problem. A friend of mine down under told me a story of a guy who had practiced and practiced for an event in Thailand. He went there and got whomped. When interviewed he said "I guess I just didn't practice hard enough." It never occurred to him that maybe it wasn't him, but that the style was ineffective under those circumstances. How many of us train (and incorporate into our training) for where doesn't this kind of move work? Under what circumstances will this kind of move just flat out fold? I personally don't believe you know an art until you know its limits as well as its strengths. This is what I call the "Backyard Principle" - -- We know where our property (read expertise) starts. That's our front yard, but how many people know where it ends in the backyard? I have seen way too many people get their faces splattered because they used a technique on an untrained power fighter that only works against a more sophisticated opponent who doesn't attack with his whole body weight. >and nor will we wait with the block until the forearm smash is of epic proportions. However the strike comes first. Must do otherwise the block wont make sense...? In my youth I knew a man who was very proud of his snubbed .357 that he always carried. He was ready for anything and if you messed with him you were going to get your brains blown out. They found his body in the alley behind the pool hall with multiple stab wounds in his back. He'd never had a chance to pull his gun. (I also knew a guy that this happened to in Nicaragua, except he had a machine gun. The rest of the patrol heard him scream, and got there before his machete wielding attacker could grab the gun. That's how they knew that his gun was unfired)`. I don't care how good your attacks are if you don't have a chance to use them. If your blocks won't stop a powerful attack, then you won't be able to deploy your attacks. How many people have you ever seen effectively rally back from having a beer bottle busted over their head? > I see a lot of fighting as being a territorial thing and in general is as much about bravado as it is about actually destroying someone. I would say that a significant part of it is making a person withdraw into their territory. Not necessarily conquering. It's often more "Get back into your place, shut up and behave" Granted there is a lot of punishment for daring to step out of expected behavior. That is however bare handed. When weapons are deployed the purpose is to destroy. You don't pick up a weapon to establish dominance or to blow off steam, you pick up a weapon to hurt someone, if not kill them. It doesn't matter, gun, knife or stick...the level has gone up. >It's just that the crowd at my gym really don't meet that opponent much but will face the intimidation from a streetfighter bully who is roaming the street calling it his own after a couple of lagers on the Saturday night. Right, and using a club on that kind of buffoon is inappropriate. >Derek's definition of winning was getting out of that situation he was in. He didn't go in there to do something specific. Give him my strongest "Atta boy!" >from raw unsophisticated power attacks.>> I accept this but also tackle it in my class. Good for you. That is something that people do need to realize. >totally unpredictable, that will get him.">> hey! Its just like driving on the motorway! You got Colorado drivers out there too? :o >OK, this is where I think we differ and its in understanding the question. We are not tallikng about teaching somone to do all the fancy stuff. Simple, in my understanding, we are talking about the understanding of what the strike constitutes first. From that first base we can then choose to look at the block or deflection. My point isn't that far from what you are saying. However, the emphasis I teach is start with a "worst case scenario," which is to block. Yeah it hurts, yeah it gets your teeth rattled, but at least you didn't get your head split. Then teach deflection, which is easier, slicker and less traumatic to your little body. It also allows you to riposte more effectively than you can from most blocks. Then you teach them to strike - using incidentally many of the same elements that you taught them in blocking. Here however is a key difference. While they may not like standing there and having someone try to beat on them on a subconscious level they realize that they can do something about getting hit. Yeah a block jars them, but they didn't get hit. A deflection hurts less, but they still didn't get hit. A strike to the opponents arm hurts least of all, and they definitely didn't get hit. It is amazing to realize how big of an issue this is with most beginners. They get past the this basic fear, when they realize even if all else goes wrong, they won't get hit. From this you can build a solid offense. An offense that is based on "If I take him out, he won't have a chance to try to hit me again" I am not advocating being a defensive fighter, but saying that before you become offensive, make sure your defenses are in order. ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:43:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #26 *************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, and Inayan Eskrima Standard disclaimers apply.