From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #29 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Wed, 19 Jan 2000 Vol 07 : Num 029 In this issue: eskrima: animal issues eskrima: Re: ED T-shirts eskrima: LITERAL "SINAWALI" eskrima: What do you do? eskrima: Re: Silat, etc. eskrima: ED t-shirts eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #25 eskrima: Thoughts on header shirt eskrima: Batman eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #28 eskrima: MomBat [none] ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, and Inayan Eskrima Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Carlton H. Fung, D.D.S." Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 21:51:58 -0800 Subject: eskrima: animal issues - ----- Original Message ----- > From: AnimalMac@aol.com > > A friend of mine down under told me a story of a guy who had practiced and > practiced for an event in Thailand. He went there and got whomped. When > interviewed he said "I guess I just didn't practice hard enough." It never > occurred to him that maybe it wasn't him, but that the style was ineffective > under those circumstances. No, He was ineffective with that style under the circumstances. Big difference. > I have seen way too many people get their faces splattered because they used > a technique on an untrained power fighter that only works against a more > sophisticated opponent who doesn't attack with his whole body weight. That is a training method problem of not understanding the dynamics of the attack and the dynamics of a response. > In my youth I knew a man who was very proud of his snubbed .357 that he > always carried. He was ready for anything and if you messed with him you were > going to get your brains blown out. They found his body in the alley behind > the pool hall with multiple stab wounds in his back. > I don't care how good your attacks are if you don't have a chance to use > them. If your blocks won't stop a powerful attack, then you won't be able to > deploy your attacks. This sounds like an ambush issue . From a time perspective you can't block any better than you can counterattach or "move" from an ambush. Regards, Carlton H. Fung, D.D.S. Redondo Beach, Ca. ------------------------------ From: Kel620@aol.com Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 00:56:47 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: ED T-shirts <> This would make a good T-shirt, but you all are forgetting one thing....Sticks! You have to have a picture of sticks or swords on an Arnis/Eskrima/Kali T-shirt. It just wouldn't be complete without some weapons on it! :-) ------------------------------ From: mac Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 14:48:33 +0800 Subject: eskrima: LITERAL "SINAWALI" Like English, Filipino words can be formed by adding affixes. But unlike English, it can be in the middle. The root word is "Sawali" -noun- meaning wooven bamboo(usually). Used as house sides/walls, there was no Plywood or it is/was cheaper than wood/plywood so this was commonly used. Use the affix "in" to make the past tense. Tagalog can add this to a verb or noun. If a word start with "a,e,i,o,u" add it in the begining, otherwise insert it after the first letter. Example: I will used some words already in the FAQ sipa = kick, insert "in" between "s" and "i" we have "sinipa" = kicked ikot = turn, add "in" at the begining "inikot" = turned apply to a object that can be held by hand, It usually mean attack using that object thus: in + itak(bolo) = initak = attacked using bolo in + kahoy(wood) = kinahoy = attacked using wood So "Sinawali" means attacked using "sawali"? You can't attack somebody with 6 feet by 10 feet of sawali. Therefore it means attack(ed) by/using weaving pattern. Overtime due to lack of vocabulary and that particular technique having no name, the description "sinawali" become the name of the technique. It may be different in other region with different dialect, but "Siniwali" is not the term in Tagalog, its "Sinawali" letter "a" between "n" and "w". For me, who cares, as long as one can execute and use the technique well. mac ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:48:15 -0800 Subject: eskrima: What do you do? A Howl etc: Certainly one should train to be able to go as far as and a bit further than any opponent or enemy, but its also nice to be able to win and go less far-- it may well win the aftermath in ways unimaginable at the moment. Certainly one should avoid fights with random idiots. But there are times when one can be cornered into a situation. Example? OK. A neighborhood pick-up basketball game and some big guy is throwing elbows a bit too much and bullying. Someone else has enough and calls a foul on him. Squawks and insults by the bully and a minute later he accidentally on purpose trips the guy who called the foul, whose knees and palms are rasberried. He gets up with annoyed body language. The bully calls him a female dog and shoves him on the chest and pops him one in the mouth. Those of us short of the Buddha may find ourselves in a scrap. A playground scuffle? You betcha! Dumb? Of course! What do you do? Walk away? Is your girlfriend watching the game? Do you whip out a kerambit and do a harimau takedown by cutting the inside of his knee open, bite off his ear and rip out his eyeball? Are you willing to bet your worldly possessions and possibly your freedom on this being tolerated by the legal system of your country? Are you willing to pay your lawyer's fees in order to find out? Is there some sort of implicit code? Are you willing to lose in order to live up to the code? Is your answer affected by the kind of training you have? Is you answer affected by the absence or presence of some or any of the following variables? Variable 1: You know each other and travel in the same circles (e.g. both in the same school) Variable 2: You don't know each other. Variable 3: You both have an equal amount of friends there. Variable 4: You have more friends there than he does. Variable 5: He has more friends there than you. Variable 6: The playground is in urban England and probably there are no guns. Variable 7: The playground is in urban America and guns are a distinct possibility. Variable 8: The playground is a Small Town USA and everyone has known everyone for all their lives. Variable 9: The playground is in the Philippines. etc. Woof, Crafty ------------------------------ From: "Jerry Bikendova" Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 07:13:00 GMT Subject: eskrima: Re: Silat, etc. "But why fight, outside of a training fight, if it isn't real combat? IMHO, we should not bother to train for the little school-ground scuffle, but for real combat. There is no tapping-out in combat.Ray Terry" Ray, I know exactly what you mean, I think. And I agree that it is important to have different "modes"--or as Guro Inosanto might say "to know which game you are playing." Fully functional Death Star mode is not appropriate for either attack or defense when say someone shoves you in a bar, pats your girl on the butt, calls you a #$@%&, etc. Unless Steven Seagall is on this list, most of us are not killing people in SE Asian jungles at the moment. Rather, we are much more often faced with situations in which we must control rather than kill someone. So the scorched earth policy invoked by many MA's rings a little bit fantastic both because it is usually not very judicially/morally prudent even if you can do it, and, as I alluded to before, it may be harder against a man than it is in the air. Jerry ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Chad Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 03:39:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: ED t-shirts Actually Ray, not to be a credit hog(but I would like my free shirt ;0) I suggested that particular style and Tuhon Bill and 2 other digesters (sorry don't remember the names) said they liked it. BTW, I think the one on the front and back has a better balance, but I haven't copyrighted it yet;). Also, does anyone chat on the eskrima chat? We should coordinate some time and date and have a meeting on it. I ceartainly would love to chat with Crafty, Top, Salty, Tuhon Bill, Rocky, and a few others. Anyone interested? > > From: Ray Terry > Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 18:21:29 -0800 (PST) > Subject: eskrima: ED shirts? > > People seem to like, I think it was, Tuhon Bill's idea, i.e. a > T-shirt with: > > From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com > To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com > Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest > Reply-to: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com > > on the front, and > > Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. > ~1100 members strong! > Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, > and Inayan Eskrima > Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. > > on the back. > > Or maybe the front blank/plain with the immediately above on the > back. > > Thoughts? > > Ray Terry ===== "Draw me not without reason, sheath me not without honor" Chad Hawaii __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Patrick Davies Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 12:34:33 -0000 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #25 From: AnimalMac@aol.com Pat spake thus: >OK, this is where I think we differ and its in understanding the question. We are not talking about teaching someone to do all the fancy stuff. Simple, in my understanding, we are talking about the understanding of what the strike constitutes first. From that first base we can then choose to look at the block or deflection. To Which Animal replied: <> I reply: still I think you've gone two steps down the line from where I came. You get them to hold a stick. Why hold it like that? In order that you can block or in order to strike. Ultimately do we not use the stick for its striking efficiency rather than its blocking ability? So if you teach block and then deflection, how can they riposte if they not know what it is sir? snip <> I don't think we are necessarily disagreeing. I just still think that you have to be able to open the door to get in the car before learning how to put the brake on/off. That opening the door is to understand how to swing. Before I learnt to shield I learnt a hook kick. I don't need to be brilliant but I need to know what it is. The brilliance came shortly after ; ) lol. Maybe we are getting hung up on time dwelt on the technique but then the question didn't stipulate what degrees we were working in. I agree with you but disagree but I feel its as much to do with the expressing of it rather than the action itself Regards pat Aberdeen Martial Arts Group ------------------------------ From: Drew Zimba Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 05:22:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: Thoughts on header shirt >>>> People seem to like, I think it was, Tuhon Bill's idea, i.e. a T-shirt with: From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Reply-to: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com on the front, and Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, and Inayan Eskrima Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. on the back. Or maybe the front blank/plain with the immediately above on the back. Thoughts? >>>> Ray, I very strongly believe that this is the way to go! While others have submitted good ideas, I think they will be more limited in appeal than the above. The header is familiar to all on the list and is, in a way, the list's identity. I would go with the front/back layout because the back-only layout would put the humorous (on the shirt it's humorous) "Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you." line at the very bottom of the back where it might be missed or tucked in. And you originally poo-poo'ed the idea of a t-shirt! "What would it have on it? An e-mail header?!" Well.... YES! Drew __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: "Mikal Keenan" Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:47:38 -0600 Subject: eskrima: Batman > If you can't block a baseball bat, then you might check your training. > Maybe you're forgetting to move in fast with your block, cause if you > wait, you learn it the hard way. The only thing really dangerous about > full power bat hits is that the bat quickly breaks with all the pionty > parts flying around. Train with a sledge hammer handle instead. How many people out there would attempt to BLOCK a baseball bat? Tuhon McGrath ... if you would please ... what is your take on this? Empty-handed against a baseball bat ... IMHO attempts to block make zero sense, especially given that most bats these days are made of metal (ouch!!!), not wood (still too much ouch and probable fractures to the to the would be blocker). I'm nobody special, but having worked with Chinese, Korean and other MAs for almost 30 years, blocking a baseball bat is out of the question. One really dangerous thing about full power baseball hits is that they can kill you ... like the Ethiopian who was murdered in Oregon. Strike one, you're out. Checking my training, I will stick with "move inside the arc of the swing, capture the arms, proceed to deliver palm/gorearm/elbow/knee impacts and dump the perp if possible to hit with the ground." I don't teach much anymore, but if anyone were to ask me how to block a baseball bat I'd have to resist the old "lesson in reality." Oops upside de haid! I don't mean to ruffle your feathers friend, but reading the above post my heart sank thinking about "The only thing dangerous about full power bat hits." There's a little Ethiopian guy who lost his university-student father to some bat-swinging cretins who think that Earth belongs to them and they can do whatever they want to whomever they want and their bat swinging is testimony to their "beliefs." Maybe the victim should have blocked the bat per the advice above. Closer to home, a coworker almost lost his mom to some bat-wielding jerk who thought that it was appropriate to hit her in the head for her purse ... she's 80 years old ... survived with a severe concussion and reported "I tried to kick him where it would hurt." :-) I don't think that someone who had the mindset of blocking could prevent injury if any of the people that I've worked with were wielding a bat. Thinking "fighting smart" IMHO the Evade/Control/Attack approach is appropriate both in this case and it generalizes well. The "move in" step that I described is both evasion and control ... getting inside the arc of the swing negates the physics of being out there in the arc of the bat's end where all the power is. Simultaneously controlling the weapon and arms is also "smart" ... no need to explain. The disruption of the attack, likewise in its effect on the attacker (like stop hit) both physically and mentally (muck up their rhythm). Simultaneously slamming something into their face/head/neck is the crowning element. One beat for all of that instead of block and counter, if the block (stick? empty hand?) had any effect. A heavy weapon against a light weapon? Working with my son I often use sticks that are heavier than his ... I easily crash through. Ey, Power/Dog Bros ... comments? :-) Be well, Mik BTW ... getting into Indian Clubs ("Gada") ... cool ... they're used in the martial arts program at Ft. Benning. ------------------------------ From: Ken McDonough Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 06:40:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #28 Barry stated: Response: I have been lurking for a coupla weeks. Just a quick note regarding the above comment. Just constructive criticism. I have done the same thing above, re: flippin' a guy off. Bad move. It always escalates the situation. The most important thing is that nothing happened. I would say the initial choice of flippin' the guy was a bad choice since you will get an immediate response. I mean some of us learn through training that you reach a level where your able to walk away from confrontations. Sensing and deescalating a confrontation is always the better choice. I am not an angel and I have had my share of confrontations. One lesson I have learned is that it is not worth the hassle for these meaningless confrontations. Cheers, Ken McDonough, Major, USAF __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: "Mikal Keenan" Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:55:14 -0600 Subject: eskrima: MomBat Forgot to mention that the 80 year old woman who suffered the baseball bat attack could have died. Two inches more towards the temple area and they estimated that she would have been DOA. Altho unrelated, I wanted to tutor the perp a bit myself. I'd recommend that if someone were to approach with a bat, consider it a lethal weapon capable of delivering deadly force and respond accordingly. Be well, Mik ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 06:56:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #29 *************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, and Inayan Eskrima Standard disclaimers apply.