From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #31 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Wed, 19 Jan 2000 Vol 07 : Num 031 In this issue: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #30 eskrima: Re: training against a bat eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #30 eskrima: Krabi krabong eskrima: Re: Bladeworks learns a valuable lesson eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #30 eskrima: SCARS and FMA eskrima: Sundry eskrima: Yip eskrima: patting my woman's ass?!?!?!? eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #28 Re: eskrima: Sundry [none] ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, and Inayan Eskrima Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ABurrese@aol.com Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 16:01:15 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #30 >>>Not to take away from Animal's point but, sometimes, the other guy is better. Although it is easier on our ego if we blame our failures on external factors. Take two guys in the same class with the same experience. One is going to do better than the other. Don't blame style, chi, or the tides.<<< Something you will hear me say often, and I put in my book is that it is true that you can always run into someone better, but you can be beat by someone not as good as you as well, for many reasons. (book chapter is "Anyone can be beat") I like to use Sumo as an example. I used to watch the bashos faithfully when I lived in Japan, and still like catching them on ESPN at times now. Every once in a while, the little guy who is not as good beats the big top Yokazuna. Big upsets for sure. That happens elsewhere as well. So yes, you may run into someone better, but you may be beat by someone not as good too. Point of all of this, avoid when you can. Close friend's father was killed in a bar parking lot by a pipe to the head by a guy who was not as "good." Yours in Training, Alain Burrese ------------------------------ From: Ted Truscott Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 12:57:19 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Re: training against a bat Since I got involved with FMA, our empty hand bat defenses went all to hell because no one telegraphs large swings or steps in with the bat way back to expose their forearms and the swing is so fast, no one can get inside and if you wait for it to go by and try to enter, control of the centrifigal force brings it right back onto us. It certainly has upped the ante. Ted Truscott "the fighting old man" ------------------------------ From: "Mikal Keenan" Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:59:10 -0600 Subject: eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #30 > it was also one of those instances that I jsut > couldnt resist What we cannot resist is what we follow to our fates. As one of my teachers once put it: "Ask yourself ... 'To how many things am I a slave?'" > What would you suggest doing to someone who has just disrespected you and > your girlfriend/wife by patting her on the ass? This is a real BIT muCH. Similar Q: What to do when some idiot invites your wife/girlfriend to his private parts? (Ye old crotch hoister). My first response to the latter was to arrange things so that the fool would not hurt himself ... I believe in the natural protective instinct which revolves around the dynamics of family ... not jealousy, PROTECTiveness. Jealousy means envious of something someone else has that you don't have. Any action(s) I might take on behalf of my family ain't got nuthin' to do with jealousy (crazy social convention of speech). Choice of action depends on relation to the offender. Other family member (yeah, it happ ens)? "Friend"? Associate? Stranger? Different dynamics with each of those, but one common vein ... the dynamics of protecting the nuclear family. Generalizes to extended family and friends. Heck ... I get pretty damned protective of other guys' wives/girlfriends if they're not around! Response will also depend on scenario and location. Was this person a lone stranger or with others, etc.? If "out and about" and it's a stranger with pals the best response is "Vaminos! Pronto!" Discretion is the better part of valor? Be well, Mik ------------------------------ From: tcsno Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 17:37:02 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Krabi krabong I have a couple of questions for the members........... Does anyone know who and where the Krabi Krabong instructors are in this country? What kind of luck would I have walking into Thai restaurants and looking for anyone who knows about Thai sword--Old style Thai? Has anyone had luck with talking to members of Cambodian, Laotian, ethnic groups/clubs and seeing if their tribal arts are still active?? Thanks, Tom Furman tcsno@mciworld.com ------------------------------ From: Ken McDonough Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:56:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: Re: Bladeworks learns a valuable lesson Bladeworks stated: Response: The best response you made above was the recognition that you made an error. You made an error in judgment, that we all make, and there was no unfortunate result. It would be easy for me or others to say that we have reached nirvana and can preach learned answers. The bottom line is that I did the same thing you did and went further. Subsequently, I realized that the result was not correct. About six months ago I was in a Sears parking lot with my 11 year old. As I was leaving the parking lot a driver moved right into my path. I immediately reacted as he did. We both had children with us. As I was reacting I realized that I was neither injured nor was my life in jeopardy. I also realized that my young son was with me. So, I verbalized to the other driver and stated, "hey, we were both wrong and there is no damage, right ?" He nodded and we both drove off. I told my son that is how you should attempt to deescalate a situation. Several years earlier I may have flipped him the bird and got out of my vehicle in a confrontational posture thus escalating the event. Of course the situation changes when your life is in danger. When that occurs I try to listen to the sage advice of seasoned artists on this list. Cheers, Ken McD... Major, USAF __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: AnimalMac@aol.com Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 19:03:05 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #30 In a message dated 1/19/00 1:46:01 PM Mountain Standard Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Too often I think people look at fight as fun. You may feel good about going through your internal routine on looking for fight cues and see a flash instead. "Though boys throw stones in sport at frogs in the pond, the frogs die not in sport, but in earnest" "A "generic" D.C. "Street Man" once told me "Anybody who starts a fight deserves to be shot." Whoa, that's extreme, but that was his belief ... he was otherwise a -very- peaceful guy. >> There are entire sections in society where that attitude is not unusual. The big question is how do you know when you are messing with such a person...you don't :\ ------------------------------ From: ginom@info.com.ph Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 08:34:16 +0800 Subject: eskrima: SCARS and FMA Has anyone on the E-D seen or evaluated the SCARS tapes. I've been told that the principles taught therein can be readily applied to FMA techniques and would appreciate some informed advice before making a purchase. Thanks and regards, Gino ginom@info.com.ph ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 16:22:54 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Sundry A Howl etc: Re: Flippin' The Bird: The human animal did not evolve from the kind of environment it which it lives today. It evolved around a way of life similar to that of the American Indian before the white man came. One knew dealt with others in an ongoing manner and suffering personal disrespects would lead to more of the same and a loss of status within the tribe with concomitant reduction in, uhhh, procreational success ;-) It is natural to the instinctive structure of the human animal to respond in kind to personal disrespects. In contrast to the environment of human evolutionary history, today most of us live in a world of interactions with people we have never met and probably will never see again. This is NOT natural to the human animal. These interactions are not personal; they are anonymous. Anonymous interactions are natural to a school of fish, but not to wolves or chimpanzees or humans. Sharing cultural understandings and values may make anonymous interaction possible to a considerable extent, (and BTW goes a long way to explaining human desire for cultural homogeneity) but one of the features of the modern world is the friction of different cultural understandings and values being tossed together. No one wants to concede lingua franca (i.e. dominant) status to the others and a search for mutual respect can be undermined by results that sometimes look a lot like a lack of any values at all. Our mind tells us the superior logic of not getting started with some situation such as the one Barry described, yet our primal core flares testosterone and we become out of center with ourselves whichever of these two responses we take. This is a pivotal point in my opinion. The expression of the primal self in a higher consciousness context such as a Gathering I believes triggers powerful transitions to a way of being that leaves one less and less triggered by the flying fickle fingers of annoying anonymous interactions AND prepares one for effective action when it is not "friends at the end of the day". | Crafty: | Those are a lot of varibles. Again I think realisticly my temper would | play a part in my action. (maybe for the worse) I dont thnk that i would | entertain the thought of lawyer fees. I guess if i felt that if i was going to | get a beating I might as well stand up for myself and get one. This attitude | would be differant if I had reason to belive guns would be involved. I mean if | i thought he had a gun i would basicly kiss ass untill i could escape and | contrive my revenge! Be it legal or otherwise. | Barry My point in using a law school exam way of questioning was that it is very hard to say that "this way" is the "right way" and not "that way." The associates of the bully may tolerate a "fair fight" particularly if you have a similar number of friends, but a personal fighting style limited to "death star" techniques might leave one in a position of triggering a mass situation (i.e. outraging his friends into action) or having to kitty out. Or you may have to go to death star mode because of how the guy is coming at you. No way as way. Sleeping Dog wrote: | How about just a simple provocative slogan, printed in | not-too-big letters? | "Putting the 'scream' into Eskrima" | "It takes a warrior to digest eskrima." | "Fightin' and typin'" | | Something like that. Just making these up off the top of my head. | Help me out, y'all. But I think the key ingredient of a good t-shirt | is that it's cryptic. It makes you go, "huh? what's that all about?" | If someone really wants to know, they come over and ask you. I vote to COMBINE this approach with the e-mail header. Off the top of my head: "Eskrima Digest: Its not a matter of life and death-- its much more important than that!" | We had a nice news story here in Germany recently. A well known female | german actor went for a walk with her dog. A Pitbull attacked her dog | and wouldn't let go. When nothing else worked, she bit the pitbull in | the rear and the pitbull let go. And for clarity I repeat: she bit. | Big frontpage story in quite a few papers. I had to reread the headline | twice myself. What's more dangerous than a pitbull with AIDS? The guy who gave it to him. It is my understanding that a good way to get a pit or other dog locked on to release is to stick your thumb up his butt. | What would you suggest doing to someone who has just disrespected you and | your girlfriend/wife by patting her on the ass? Especially if your lady is | offended (to say the least), and knows that you can do damage. I welcome ALL | responses. Bahala Na!!! Woof, Crafty Dog. ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 16:27:51 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Yip Yip: BTW thanks to whoever it was that posted on the derivation of the word siniwali (or was it sinawali?) Crafty ------------------------------ From: "Roan Kalani Grimm" Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 17:44:43 -0700 Subject: eskrima: patting my woman's ass?!?!?!? > Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit ><< From: "Jerry Bikendova" > Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 07:13:00 GMT > Subject: eskrima: Re: Silat, etc. > >> >What would you suggest doing to someone who has just disrespected you and >your girlfriend/wife by patting her on the ass? Especially if your lady is >offended (to say the least), and knows that you can do damage. I welcome ALL >responses. I know I'm probably gonna catch some BIG heat for this one, but if some jerk disrespected my girlfriend by patting her on the rear, I would be hugely upset. Now, my girlfriend is pretty unabashedly direct and would demand the jerk apologize. If he chose not to, then I would demand, NOT ASK, but demand he apologize. If he didn't, I would immediately launch a preemptive strike such as a headbutt to the nose, knee to the thigh, or vertical elbow to the chin. Once the initial attack happened, I would stomp his ass and then get the hell outta Dodge. Look, I'm not advocating being a bully or fighting for no reason (some of you may think I am), but at some point someone has got to stand up to the dregs of society and hold them accountable for their actions. Now, BEFORE I get ripped a new one, let me make a few points. I don't regularly hang out in biker bars or areas where gangbangers congregate. Also, if it looks like he's got his hand on a weapon of some sort (pocketknife, concealed handgun, etc.), or he's there with 5 of his assbackwards friends, I'd just leave with my girlfriend. No need to get killed. But be assured I would be looking out to catch him alone or unarmed sometime! I also figure I'll catch some crap about being "young and dumb", or "when I mature I'll see things differently" or "if you hung out in my neighborhood, you wouldn't be so tough talking." Well guess what, I don't live in your neighborhood, I live in mine and I know who the criminal element is. I also spent 5 years in the service and have seen plenty of bad things go down. A fellow marine I served with was stabbed in the neck right in front of me in Tijuana...he died. I've had knives pulled on me a couple of times. Believe me, I know when to "chicken" out. I'm not so young and dumb, and I doubt I'll see things differently when I mature. But I am fed up with the crap element of society calling the shots because a lot of people are afraid of getting sued (I blame less than ethical lawyers), or being shot for no good reason. If others want to walk away from every situation, more power to them, that's how they choose to live their lives and those are their values and beliefs. However, I've stood on the wall to guard citizens freedom and democracy, and I hate the way things are going, in as such that dirtbags get away with way too much. So that's my personal response. If yours is different, cool, but don't criticize my values, beliefs, or the way I feel. I promise I won't criticize yours. Peace, respect and an open mind. Aloha, Roan Kalani Grimm "We must remember that one man is much the same as another, and that he is best is he who is trained in the severest school." -- Thucydides P.S. Sorry about the rant everyone, and sorry about the language if it offended anyone. ------------------------------ From: "Raymond A. Dettinger" Date: Sun, 20 Jan 1980 19:04:20 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #28 From: Bladewerks@aol.com Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:19:30 EST Subject: eskrima: Streetfighting I was glad it didnt escalate. Hindsite is 20/20. Im open for critisicm Should I have gave him the bird? After the fact that i did should I have handled it (tacticly) differant?Maybe approching the truck differantly ect.ect. Lets be honest.No "Mr. Miyagi stuff" :) I know i should have controled my temper but it was a situation that i didnt.Dont we all have them? Barry Me: Barry, having been a victim of criminal violence and been in a few scrapes when I was younger plus having supervised violent criminals in a maximum security prison a few years, I now try to control myself as much as possible so I do not escalate potentially violent situations. I do this because I have learned to respect people for the violence they may be capable of. I have learned that you never really know who you are dealing with out there. You could be dealing with just an angry citizen who just got fired from his job and blowing off steam or you could be dealing with an escaped felon who is mean and nasy with plenty of guns stashed on his person. He could also be high on drugs or completely insane etc.... I have found that the average nitwits who are nasty with you just shout at you and threaten you with violence but most will not attack. They just jump around shouting at you and go nuts. I call their angry behavior the "monkey display". I just stay back and watch their hands and prepare myself for possible violence and look for an escape route if they decide to come at me. Usually, they loose their steam and go away especially if you just stand there emotionally detached which freaks them out. This takes some practice however. This is exactly what your opponent did in your story. He went nuts, did his monkey display and then lost his steam and said goodbye to you. I, too, have had these encounters here and there. However, it is much better to say and do nothing and let them act out and go away. It is not being unmanly or cowardly but extremely smart. Remember, you have nothing to prove by beating somebody up and you might be explaining yourself to the police, DA, judge, jury and the other 1000 nitwits you will be living with in the State Hotel. Also, remember that there will be witnesses to testify against you in court and other legal hassels. On occasion, I have lost control of my emotions and have done the same sort of thing you did and I kicked myself for loosing my self control. Once should not loose self control but we are human. These are just my personal experiences and observations. Other people on this ED may have other ideas on how to prevent escalation of violence. One thing I would like to learn more about is how to predict human violence. Are there human behaviors that actually predict when a person is going to attack you etc... Does anybody know of any good books on this subject? I real a lot of Animal's books and got some tips from him. Any others out there that study this stuff? Butch ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 17:16:00 PST Subject: Re: eskrima: Sundry > My point in using a law school exam way of questioning was that it is > very hard to say that "this way" is the "right way" and not "that way." > The associates of the bully may tolerate a "fair fight" particularly if you > have a similar number of friends, but a personal fighting style limited to > "death star" techniques might leave one in a position of triggering a mass > situation (i.e. outraging his friends into action) or having to kitty out. > Or you may have to go to death star mode because of how the guy is coming > at you. No way as way. Umm, well, I was gonna let his drop, but just for fun... My personal take on this comes from Ray as an almost 50 year old, not the way Ray was at the tender age of ~21. Once most of us hit adulthood fights on an athletic field of any type or in the bar are very rare. Why? After a few years of hanging around the wrong places you see too many fights end up in a shooting or a stabbing or a three-on-one or a bottle or two over the head or ... Fair fights among strangers are VERY rare. Now there is clearly a type of individual that likes that environment and seeks it out. They like seeing people getting cut, they like showing off their own multiple wounds. Me, I have just enough undamaged brain cells left that I finally learned to stay away from those places & situations, at least most of the time. So when I am forced to go into full-fight mode it is a serious situation. Is there something less that full-fight mode for me? Yep. Putting them into the wall or throwing them over a table so I can get out the exit can be fun and it gives me something interesting to write home about... :) Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 17:09:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #31 *************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, and Inayan Eskrima Standard disclaimers apply.