From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #34 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Thur, 20 Jan 2000 Vol 07 : Num 034 In this issue: eskrima: short eskrima: Silat Serak eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #28 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #28 pt 1 eskrima: Nice Butt!! eskrima: rip off eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #32 eskrima: to the pit bull's (and his victim's) surprise... eskrima: Some Ideas for the T-shirts eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #32 eskrima: ngat-ngat n stuff eskrima: Anna And The King eskrima: Re- Paul Martins Post ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, and Inayan Eskrima Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 07:24:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: short Sorry for the short issue. My bad. Ray ------------------------------ From: brosterj@qesmansfield.schoolzone.co.uk Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 15:37:40 -0000 Subject: eskrima: Silat Serak In the February 2000 issue of Inside Kung Fu there is a family tree for serak. On it Victor de Thouars is listed as: (Younger brother of Paul de Thouars)(Carrier of the Tongkat system)no longer affiliated. Does this mean he is no longer officially part of the main stream serak group or what? Does anyone know ? Jon ------------------------------ From: AnimalMac@aol.com Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 11:12:58 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #28 In a message dated 1/18/00 10:34:31 PM Mountain Standard Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Well all the threads on streetfighting gave me idea.Why dont we post our latest "encounters"---"streetfights"----"confrontations" and examine them here on ED. Im sure they will serve to enlighten us all and help us "grow". >> I am proud to announce that since coming to Colorado I have not had a single street incident. I have however, discovered that doing a dragon swat on a cow is a REALLY stupid idea. Bruce Lee never did the Owwie Dance like I did that day ------------------------------ From: AnimalMac@aol.com Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 11:52:08 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #28 pt 1 In a message dated 1/18/00 10:34:31 PM Mountain Standard Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << There seems to be some dispute as to what one calls a block. In your book "Taking it to the streets" (my treat for Christmas, great reading, wish I had three evenings to talk to you about it!) you seem to distinguish between various types of block: the one where you block the moving part (difficult, painful, bad) and the one where you block as close to the fulcrum of the movement as possible (quicker easier and less painful - definitely good). >> Here is where I run into a major problem about communication and teaching. And that is what works for me and my students vs. what works within the context of other people's systems. You can literally say I don't teach my students to block anymore. I teach them to shoot the wedge or get off line and hit from there With these motions, the block, even against a dedicated attack is a byproduct because the person is either inside the power curve or offline. However, realize that I am a real stickler for footwork and moving your body. You can ask anyone who has come down to train with me (come on guys I know you are lurking) that a significant part of what I teach is based on the premise of "your moving body is your first line of defense, you hands are your second line" (sophisticated version) or "MOOOVE or I'll cut your f**king guts out!!!" (less sophisticated). If your second line of defense fails, who cares? The majority of your safety has been ensured by your first line. However, what I teach won't work without the fundamental emphasis on moving your body. Furthermore I take body movement down to the bedrock and whip out my trusty sledgehammer and break it apart. About 90% of how we move is unconscious. And as long as we remain unconscious about it, we won't be able to move effectively. In fact, a significant part of why people are hurt is because they don't know how to move away from danger in the fastest way possible. They actually spend extra seconds there preparing to move. This loops back to what I said about training people to block first. Most people need to know this because they are going to just stand there and take the hit! Now the really bad news, most martial arts training I have seen falls into this very channel of thinking. It in fact, encourages the idea that your hands are your first line of defense. While lip service is paid to the idea of footwork and movement, it isn't taught as a fundamental (read bedrock upon which all stands) issue. Unless you, the teacher, have done major research into motion you won't be able to point out to them what they are unconsciously doing that is getting them hit. Now before anyone says to themselves "well I know that" let me point out that I have taught some really advanced people and melted their brains with this information. But until you know this stuff "YOU WILL GET HIT" I extend an open invitation to everyone on the list to come and take a day long private lesson with me or sponsor me at your school. I have a standing money back guarantee if you (or your students) don't have an eye opening experience about the nature of motion, power and surviving a knife altercations But I gotta tell you, I have never had to hand money back. ------------------------------ From: Rocky Pasiwk Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 12:35:46 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Nice Butt!! Jerry Wrote: > What would you suggest doing to someone who has just disrespected you and > your girlfriend/wife by patting her on the ass? Especially if your lady is > offended (to say the least), and knows that you can do damage. I welcome ALL > responses. > Well Jerry if we lived in a proper world you could beat some sense into him, but we don't so I suggest just look the guy straight in the eyes and say, Yea it is a fine looking butt ain't it, too bad you'll never know just how nice it is. Of course if you have witness's you could probably have the idiot arrested. But I don't think I'd do anything nasty unless he tried to carry it any further. Rocky ------------------------------ From: AnimalMac@aol.com Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 12:30:07 EST Subject: eskrima: rip off In a message dated 1/18/00 10:34:31 PM Mountain Standard Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: This was kind of specific so I'm going to answer it separately... << I have seen at least three schools advocating the initial defensive move based on a forward jam regardless of attack (Tony Blauer is one). If I understood your book correctly, your principles are similar although the wedge has a different form. >And here is the disclaimer: In no way do I imply any plagiarism on anybody's part! I still believe that great minds think alike and am happy to accept that Marconi and Popov invented radio independently... >> I assume you are referring to the recent allegation in Black Belt Magazine by one of Blauer's students that Peyton Quinn, Geoff Thompson, Sammy Franco and myself all got together and plagiarized Tony Blauer. It's true...the conspiracy is out. But do you know how hard it was to take time out of our busy schedule to do so? I mean we were already swamped with taking over the world, ruining the world's financial system, the Kennedy assassination and Roswell. Taking time out to plagiarize was no small feat. One of the problems with making that accusation (which BTW did anyone else notice that it came from Montreal?) is that I am somewhat of a mutant. Instead of pulling back and saying "my way is the only way and everyone else is wrong," I seek out the other experts in the same field. In other words, that is me and your favorite expert having a beer in over in the corner. While I have never met Geoff Thompson (or Blauer) I am buds with the other people who were slammed in that Black Belt letter. Here is the story as I understand it. Sammy Franco was friends with Blauer until they had a falling out. To say there are some hard feelings is an understatement. Peyton Quinn hadn't heard of him until about two years ago (after his book Stress Training had been published). Paladin Press had dealings with Blauer and while it didn't work out, the relationship was courteous and professional. I had first heard Blauer's name mentioned by people asking me about him, but I couldn't tell them anything as I didn't know anything. About six months ago, Masaad Ayoob spoke highly of Blauer's "Spear" and said that it was related to what I was advocating in my police tactics book. (Mas wrote the forward for my book). The impression I got was Mas liked Blauer's approach to the subject. I picked the term "wedge" up from Bob Orlando as a way to describe the hand positioning I was learning in silat. My instructor called it a "triangle" until he too started using Bob's term. Personally, I sent word that I wanted to start a discourse with Blauer, but I never heard anything back. To this day I don't know if Blauer's student took it upon himself to put on a cheerleading dress and in doing so inadvertently crossed the line accusing everyone of stealing his beloved master's idea. Or if it was an attention getting ploy. Since Black Belt just ran an article on Blauer, it doesn't seem to have hurt him any. What I do know is that if someone has seen the elephant, much of what he will report will sound real close to what someone else who has also viewed the pachyderm will describe. That's not ripping someone off, that's having lived through the experience. However, for those of you who have read my recent books, you know that I go overboard giving credit to my sources -- I do so because they are my friends or people whose work I respect. ------------------------------ From: TGAce@aol.com Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 12:36:48 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #32 Paul Martin Writes: <> Kind of in the same vein...Ive always thought that the Japanese (Samurai) addressed the "obligation" to fight in an interesting way. Combat was viewed as a duty or service to their lords. To get yourself maimed or killed in a "dishonorable" fight only made you unable to fulfull your duty and thus disgraced you. There is a general lack of the Duty concept in American culture. Most people get into scuffles over their own egos, than over a duty to protect or defend themselves or others. Since the FMA culture is very "Macho", I can see your point about the lack of "A.B.C." training. Tom Gerace ------------------------------ From: Drew Zimba Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:47:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: to the pit bull's (and his victim's) surprise... >>It is my understanding that a good way to get a pit or other dog >>locked on to release is to stick your thumb up his butt. >But how many of our fellow digesters would want to do >that??? My guess is that everyone who read it will remember it if they have a dog clamped on their testicles. At that point, it's not a matter of "want" to! Drew __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: "Al \"Got This Fish On The Move\"" Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 13:10:38 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Some Ideas for the T-shirts Ray, In order to guarantee that the T-shirts will sale you might put the names of all members' names on the back of the T-shirt. Only members who paid in advance would get their name on the T-shirt. In addition to or in lieu of the names you might list the systems or styles that members belong to on the shirt. Logos might be fine but too many will be lost on the shirt. Maybe you can put several drafts of what the T-shirt will look like on your website and maybe have a vote by all members. Respectfully, Al Sardinas Student of Garimot System of Arnis ------------------------------ From: AnimalMac@aol.com Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 13:21:42 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #32 In a message dated 1/20/00 8:17:36 AM Mountain Standard Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << ..bite his arm off and feed it to him.... >> 'Ats our own Roaring girl! BTW guys I happen to know for a fact she keeps a bottle of ketchup behind the counter for just such occassions :D ------------------------------ From: tenrec Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 18:38:54 +0000 Subject: eskrima: ngat-ngat n stuff Mr. A. Mac submitted a response to an article he wrote for a major metropolitan magazine: >Street fights involve perfectly normal people -- the same people you go to >church with or meet at school. In anger or frustration, they become >belligerent and a fight ensues. Seldom does one fight in a thousand >involve >serious injury or attempted murder. These less-lethal fights are the most >common, and that's why they are the ones good martial arts school prepare >their students for. >John Townsley >Palatine IL Well that settles it, I'm moving to Palatine IL...the home of brotherly love... Seriously, though, I wonder what Mr. Townsley's opinion would be if he lived in city where, say, a minor traffic accident could result in the shooting death of a man's pregnant wife, and the injury of other passengers (tragic but actually happened)... Wow, "seldom does one fight in a thousand involve serious injury or attempted murder"...that's the kind of city I want to raise my cats in... Paul Martin wrote: >This is the problem I see with FMA, in other MA's there is usually >some kind of code of conduct >that reminds you of the moral obligation that comes with the trained >ability >to do physical damage. FMA focuses on the fight and does not really >express a moral consideration. There are perhaps one or two clubs that DO address this (the "moral aspect of the martial arts" as one of my teachers called it), but for the most I have made the same observation...emphasis on personal conduct and the moral responsibility that comes with MA knowledge and skills varies greatly from instructor to instructor, in many cases disappointingly lacking. This is even more disconcerting when one realizes that the FMAs (many styles) emphasize edged weapons training. As a student of the FMA's, have you brought this up with your teacher? Barry wrote: >I gave him the >bird,waving it up in the air hoping he would see it in his rear view >mirrior. You violated Tenrec's Rule for Flippin' the Bird: Never flip the bird through untinted glass (or out an open window)... When you got caught, you should've said you were just trying to pick your nose, and missed... To which Maj. McD responded with: >I told my son that is how you should attempt to deescalate a situation. Amen. And BTW, Mr. Crafty wrote: >Variable 9: The playground is in the Philippines. etc. Hah! Obviously a trick question...in the Phil., basketball ain't played on no stinkin' playground...it's played on the street (they put up roadblocks first...sometimes) Jocelyne Bodhran wrote: >the guy scrammed, and was never seen again. >I hope his butt still hurts. That'll learn him...the varmint. You go girl... :) Oh and someone said a ED shirt will cost $19,800.00...just for one measly shirt??? It better have at least 2 colors... tenrec tenrec@avcorner.com ------------------------------ From: Bladewerks@aol.com Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 14:14:11 EST Subject: eskrima: Anna And The King In a message dated 1/20/00 10:19:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << www.thaiboxing.com >> Has anyone seen the the movie Anna and the King ? I noticed some Thai boxng and Kribi Krabong in the preview I thnk. Does anyone know who choreographed the senes relating to such? Barry ------------------------------ From: Rocky Pasiwk Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:36:39 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Re- Paul Martins Post Paul Writes: > I know that I am reacting strongly to this, so someone pick up the > ball...ARE you or have you ever had an instructor that includes and > demonstrates some kind of moral code of conduct that reminds students of the > responsibility that comes with training? B > > Being in the military and TRYING to be a professional, I notice this as a > glaring weakness in FMA's. > > Would you teach someone to shoot a gun w/o ensuring that they knew all the > actions esential to safely and correctly use it. Why would you consider > physical force under this scenario because you are unarmed? Would you draw > and point your gun at this same jerk if you were trained in the martial art > of pistolcraft? > > Very nice post Paul I'd have to say I agree with you on this one. I have heard many a people say that the FMA'S don't teach or influence a whole lot of the regimented moral discipline that the more traditional Karate, Kung Fu type arts do. I think part of the reason for this is that Kung Fu for instance is or was at one time more like a religion. And most of the fore fathers of modern Karate, who were trying to get their arts more widely accepted perhaps even commercially accepted new that the best way to get the modern civilized ( so to speak ) people to accept it was to so how it was not an art of combat designed to take or damage life ( which is what it really is ) but rather an art to protect and improve life. FMA's for one reason or another have remained a little more combat related, and haven't really evolved into the realm of the modern day Karate type arts, with all their karate creeds and stuff like that. At the same time, I also think that, this is why we are sought out so often by previously trained, people. The world as you know has changed tremendously in the last 100 years ( ask Crafty he was there :-) ) I personally believe that hundreds of years ago all the arts were much more violent as were the people. Know a days someone can insult a persons ability or say they can't fight or what ever , and when they get called out on it they will weasel their way out with some excuse or another, and even turn it around on you with some new politically correct BS, like " Because you told them to put up or shut up, means you have no self control, or no real confidence in your self or what ever " its like the preacher that gets caught with his hand in the cookie jug, when you have him against the wall, what does he do!!!! He hides behind the bible, and the god works in mysterious ways crap remember Jim Baker on trial!!! I'll bet 100 years ago or so, many people were called out, by many a masters, be it Karate , Kung Fu or what ever debating was more physical than intellectual. Now some people perceive this modern morality that society is trying to imprint on anything from MA's to sports to raising a child, as a better way of life, I personally am not smart enough to tell if it is or isn't. Maybe its the period in history that we live in that dictates weather or not its right, maybe we as a society just haven't caught up with our own impressions of a perfect world. It seems hard to find that happy medium, which is why so many are turning to the less Zenish ( is that a word ) and I guess violent FMA's, and of course their are those striving so much for the more Zenist type of life that they seek out the be at one with yourself type of arts like Tai Chi. Which means if you cross train and get proficient in both extremes you can maybe end up in the middle some where. What ever the case its a shame that now a days you really should be on a personal base with your Lawyer, as much as our fathers were with their Doctors, or clergymen. Some times I wonder if maybe there is so much violence in the work place or even in the school yards, because their isn't enough violence in the work place or school yard. Remember we ( especially men ) have been evolving for eons, and this modern form of civilization has only been around for what amounts to a blink of the eye as far as time is concerned. We still in some way or the other like to revert to old " there can be only one Alpha dog type of mentality". Maybe the aggression or violence that is more prominent in the FMA's allows us to purge, if you will, that pent up aggression that can develop in us. Maybe if somehow society would just let boys be boys sometimes, I think in many cases a fist fight would just be a fist fight, and not turn into someone holding everything in for so long trying to be the good civilized individuals that they want to be until it gets so overwhelming that they snap and go running thru the mall with an AK47. Things are really strange out there morality is an issue that is interpreted differently by just about every person. I consider myself a very moral person, but I believe in spanking my daughter, when she deserves it, I believe in the death penalty for murders and drug kings. I believe you should be able to kill an intruder in your home even if they aren't armed, I believe a good LEO is worth 3 times the pay they average, a believe a bad one that breaks our trust in them should be punish 3 time as much. I believe the federal government is worlds largest organized crime family. Now to many a people on this list, one or all of my beliefs would disqualify me from their definition of a moral person. Morality in the martial arts probably has to tough in a very generalized way I guess. I believe that like anything else you must find your own way, as an instructor I teach what I believe is a very effective controlled form of extreme violence that is designed to devastate my opponent, I believe this is the only way to teach effective combat. But at the same time if I get a felling from a student that they are out to learn and use this stuff in a negative way get rid of them as soon as possible. For the sake of members in society that they may inflict damage to and for the sake of my reputation. My father kind had this rule for me and my brother, " Start a fight and I kick your ass, Run from a fight and I kick your ass" The fist part of his rule I use in my teaching. If you as my student start a fight I won't kick your ass but you won't be coming back to my school. The second part is of no concern to me, as to how someone reacts when somebody picks a fight with them. In fact in today's times if you can get the hell outta dodge with out a confrontation so much the better. In a nut shell I believe as an instructor in the FMA's you simply have to police your own, like Paul said (basically ) you don't give someone a weapon without teaching them the rules and implications of using it. On a different note Paul, I am trying to get a bunch of the different Balintawak guys together this summer, in Michigan with GM Buot and who ever else wants to show if your interested e-mail me! Rocky ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #34 *************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, and Inayan Eskrima Standard disclaimers apply.