From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #35 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Thur, 20 Jan 2000 Vol 07 : Num 035 In this issue: eskrima: RE: Serak eskrima: Apropriote Animal eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #34; Filipino Names... eskrima: crafty comments eskrima: Re:Silat Serak eskrima: My take on a few things. eskrima: fma morality eskrima: Code of Conduct in FMA eskrima: moro moro play eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #34 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #24 eskrima: On people snapping... eskrima: search back digests Re: eskrima: search back digests [none] ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, and Inayan Eskrima Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sikal@yahoo.com Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 14:28:23 -0500 Subject: eskrima: RE: Serak << From: brosterj@qesmansfield.schoolzone.co.uk Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 15:37:40 -0000 Subject: eskrima: Silat Serak In the February 2000 issue of Inside Kung Fu there is a family tree for serak. On it Victor de Thouars is listed as: (Younger brother of Paul de Thouars)(Carrier of the Tongkat system)no longer affiliated. Does this mean he is no longer officially part of the main stream serak group or what? Does anyone know ? Jon >> Actually, that article was more about Paul and his training of Serak and Bukti Negara. Pak Vic split from Paul in 1994 (brotherly disagreement). Pak Vic developed Tongkat (as well as O.D.F. for LEO). However, he is still teaching Serak. He and Maurice (the eldest living de Thouars brother who lives in Holland) are a separate Tjabang (branch) from Paul. I would guess (don't know for sure, though) that they are not officially recognized by Paul and his Tjabang. It's all very political and I try to avoid politics. I am training in Silat Sera-Serak (this naming convention is to distinguish Pak Vic/Maurice's Tjabang from Paul's Serak Tjabang). My instructor is an Antek Guru (assistant instructor) under Pak Vic. All the political crap is just that ... crap. As a dear friend of mine once said, "That's political crap ... I'm just here to train." Anyway, I'm currently working with Pak Vic to put together an article for IKF. It will be non-political ... merely a brief history of Serak and a statement of purpose of Pak Vic's Tjabang. So, the answer to your question: Is he part of the "mainstream" Serak group ... that would depend on how you define the "mainstream." If you define this as Paul's Tjabang, then the answer is "No, he's not." However, there are other people in the world who have Serak (one of them -- Pak Rudy ter Lindend -- just recently passed away). I personally (not a political thing at all, just my opinion) don't think that there is a "mainstream" Serak group. Paul has very few "finished" Serak students (and some of them, like Stevan Plinck, have split from Paul as well). Anyway, I hope I've answered your question. I'm by no means an authority on this .. I'm just a small-time student trying to shed some light on the subject. Regards, Mike ==== Poetry is: the heart coming around a corner and unexpectedly running into the mind. -- Anna Quindlen ------------------------------ From: "Carlton H. Fung, D.D.S." Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 11:51:13 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Apropriote Animal From: AnimalMac@aol.com Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 11:32:21 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #29 In a message dated 1/19/00 8:00:48 AM Mountain Standard Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: > It never > occurred to him that maybe it wasn't him, but that the style was ineffective > under those circumstances. << No, He was ineffective with that style under the circumstances. Big difference. >> >>how so? I'm not sure I see your point. Are you saying that because he didn't >>understand his style he couldn't choose the most appropriate responses? Hi Animal....Not quite. The problem is only sometimes the tool. Usually, the problem is a person's application of a tool at a specific point in time. Example, a screwdriver is not an appropriote substitute for a wrench on a bolt head. However, you can use a screwdriver on the "flat to apex" of one of the hexes on a bolt and wack the screwdriver with a hammer and lossen the bolt so you can take it off by hand...sometimes. On the other hand sometimes you use the tip of a screwdriver to help spin on a bolt in a tough access situation and torque it down with the wrench at the end. See what I mean now? What is "appropriote" is what gets the job done. What may "appear" appropriote is what has worked successfully in the past. Close, but still big difference, and hence not always the answer. Regards, Carlton H. Fung, D.D.S. Redondo Beach, Ca. ------------------------------ From: Ken McDonough Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 11:48:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #34; Filipino Names... It is now snowing and I am stuck in my house. My wife, a lovely Filipina, receives The Manila Mail Newsletter. This newsletter carries articles about Filipino's, and the Philippines. I have been to the PI several times. I am going again next November 2000. My wife pointed out the following article and it is "right on point" and humorous. I will pass along a few parts for your edification and enjoyment. The author is from England currently working in the Philippines: "A Rhose by any other name...by Matthew Sutherland... When I arrived in the Philippines from the UK six years ago, one of the first cultural differences to strike me was names. The subject has provided a continuing source of amazement and amusement ever since. The first unusual thing, from an English perspective, is that everyone here has a nickname. In the staid and boring United Kingdom, we have nicknames in kindergarten, but when we move to adulthood we tend...to lose them. The second thing that struck me is that Philippine names for both girls and boys tend to be what we in the UK would regard as overberingly cutesy for anyone over about five. Fifty-five year-olds with names that sound like five-year olds...Where I come from a boy with a nickname like Boy Blue or Honey Boy would be beaten to death at school by preadolescent bullies, and never make it to adulthood. So would girls with names like Babes, Lovely, Precious, Peachy... Here,however, no one bats an eyelid. Then I noticed how many people have what I have come to call "door-bell names." These are nicknames that sound like-well, door-bells. There are millions of them. Bing, Bong, Ding, and Dong are some of the more common. They can be used in even more door-bell like cominations such as Bing-Bong, Ding-Dong, Ting-Ting, and so on. Repeating names was another novelty to me, having never before encountered people with names like Len-Len, Let-Let, Mai-Mai, or Ning-Ning. This had me confused for a while. Then there is the trend for parents to stick to a theme when naming their children. This can be as simple as making them all begin with the same letter, as in Jun, Jimmy, Janice, and Joy. More imaginative parents shoot for more sophisticated forms of assonance or rhyme, as in Biboy, Boboy, Buboy, Baby.Even better parents can create whole families of say, desserts, Apple Pie, Cherry Pie, Honey Pie, or flowers (Rose, Tulip). How boring to come from a country like the UK full of people with names like John Smith. How wonderful to come from a country where imagination and exoticism rule the world of names. Even the towns here have weird names; my favorite is the unbelieveably-named town of Sexmoan (ironically close to Olongapo and Angeles). Where else in the world could that really be true ? Where else could you have the head of the Church really be called Cardinal Sin ? Where else in the world could Angel, Gigi, and Mandy be grown-up men ?..." The above is true. My wife's sister's housekeeper's name is Ling-Ling. Cheers, Ken McD... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: "Carlton H. Fung, D.D.S." Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 12:00:00 -0800 Subject: eskrima: crafty comments >>Our mind tells us the superior logic of not getting started with some situation such as the one Barry described, yet our primal core flares testosterone and we become out of center with ourselves whichever of these two responses we take.<< Crafty, Good point. The answer is that in a few thousand years to attempted evolution somehow we have not killed each other off. Perhaps the reason for this is a) that is why our brains are bigger and we use them sometimes, b) you can't keep people from F**king each other (eg get progeny). The better question is which head do we use more often? Our government knows what is best for us and thinks "B" so we get get guncontrol so we don't kill each other. WE should all try a bit harder to use "A" and vote the bums out! Regards, Carlton H. Fung, D.D.S. Redondo Beach, Ca. ------------------------------ From: Todd Ellner Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 12:45:42 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Re:Silat Serak brosterj@qesmansfield.schoolzone.co.uk writes > In the February 2000 issue of Inside Kung Fu there is a family tree for serak. > On it Victor de Thouars is listed as: > (Younger brother of Paul de Thouars)(Carrier of the Tongkat system)no longer > affiliated. > Does this mean he is no longer officially part of the main stream serak group > or what? Does anyone know ? It means that he has his own organization. There really isn't a "main stream serak group". There are gurus and students. Some of them proclaim an affiliation with one another. Some of them don't. My teacher was a long-time student of Paul de Thouars. He isn't part of any organization except for TGOYWPSISG (The Group Of Yahoos Who Practice Silat In Steve's Garage). Todd ------------------------------ From: "big Joe A." Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 13:02:42 PST Subject: eskrima: My take on a few things. Hi all, I've got a few things to say about a few of the threads going. First off I agree with Kalani. If any idiot ever disrespected my woman that way I would rip him a new orifice. Secondly to the guy who used the universal hand signal to the guy in the truck. More power to you bro. That guy was an A&*hole for almost running you down and I would have done the same thing without hesitation. I am usually a peaceful guy. Ask anyone who knows me, but almost killing me and /or disrespecting my family, friends, or woman and you will find yourself in a world of hurt. As far as the bat thing goes I agree move inside the arc of the blow if you can. But my one experience with someone trying to use my head for batting practice went quite differently. As far as the different situations crafty went into if I was the one who was tripped I would have kicked that fools a** in all the aforementioned situations. I know myself and no matter how much I would like to say I would just walk away and be a good boy I know I wouldn't. I'm patient and would take someones S**t to a point but once you pass that point I loose control. Well anyways I just had to put my 2 cents in. When I have more time there are a few more things I would like to respond to. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "*" Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 13:02:59 -0800 Subject: eskrima: fma morality >This is the problem I see with FMA, in other MA's there is usually >some kind of code of conduct >that reminds you of the moral obligation that comes with the trained >ability >to do physical damage. FMA focuses on the fight and does not really >express a moral consideration. - - a few people have stated that no one or very few teach this aspect - I find that interesting because almost everyone has trained at some time with guro Dan or one of his instructor's - in his douce methodos (12 area's/method's) the last one is healing/spirituality (dr. gyi also says one cant be a warrior without being a healer) but anyway guro Dan's has a litany of criteria for being given the rank of instructor - 99 % have nothing to do with ability- they are things like conduct, integrity, honesty,faithfulness, ect. - so if his instructor's aren't passing that message along, well i guess they missed the boat, and obviously pulled the wool over guro Dan's eye's, because they where only putting on a faced around him and he didn't know their true nature - steve reiter PS - this is why i wont ever be awarded a instructor ship from dan ( i just cant turn the other cheek, as most who have read my posts can attest to), but conversly thats why i am a instructor under his son-in-law guro ron balicki, who knows the value of beating the hell out of some a-hole who desperatly needs it ------------------------------ From: hec mail Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 13:17:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: Code of Conduct in FMA This is response to Paul's comment regarding FMA not being taught with any guidance as when to use force. There is such a code within the FMA, a warrior's code of conduct. Eskrimadors were well respected in the society of the Filipinos, because they were viewed upon as protector of the people. They were treated with the utmost respect right up there with other leaders of the Filipino society. This was before the land was taken over by the Spaniards. With such responsibilities that comes with being a warrior. The Eskrimadors had to carry themselves in a manner that the people would continue to respect them. They did not go around killing or hurting someone at the slightest incident. They fought when they had to... not because they want to. The "old men" that have decided to share their knowledge with us kept that code. They were kind, gentle, and try to help their fellow neighbors when they can. They love life and cherished it. When they fought, it's because they had no choice, it came down to a matter of life or death. Unfortunately, what we hear of the FMA is how effective & deadly the art is. And that Eskrimador tested their skills in "Death Mathches". But you don't hear the other side of the story. The kindler and peaceful side to these warriors. It becomes the responsibility of the instructor to talk about this in their class, and explain what it means to be a warrior. There has always been a code of conduct/moral guidance in the FMA, it's up to each individual to follow it or not. ____________________________________________ Service Brought To You By http://WWW.DWP.NET ------------------------------ From: "Vincent Bollozos" Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 13:43:36 PST Subject: eskrima: moro moro play Hey All, I'm looking for resources on Moro-Moro play's on the a web, print , a contact or otherwise. Ideally, I'm looking to actually put one on. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Vince ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Fritz Schneider Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 13:41:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #34 Rock wrote: > In a nut shell I believe as an instructor in the FMA's you simply have > to police your own, like Paul said (basically ) you don't give someone a > weapon without teaching them the rules and implications of using it. I'll jump in here and agree with you. I am of the opinion that MA instructors should stick to just that: teaching martial arts. Letting someone dictate your moral worldview because they teach you ways to move your body seems to me rather silly. Hell, you can kill someone driving your car irresponsibly but your driver's ed teacher never tried to impart his morality to you. It's like a your firearms instructor: he advises you of your position with regard to the law and advocates safe and responsible use of your tools. He doesn't tell you how to live your life. Neither should a martial arts instructor. Teach *responsibility* and leave philosophy and religion to the individual. Anyone who makes ethical calls based on how some else has told them to live their life is selling out one of the very things that makes them human: their ability to reason. Thats what I think, anyway :) - -- fritz ------------------------------ From: LKPsyA@aol.com Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 16:58:35 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #24 Yet another suggestion for the e-d tee shirt: Front: a stick and knife crossed over a computer with "eskrima digest" around the logo; and Back: "stickin' it to the 'net since 1994" Larry Kenigsberg Student of Guro Nick Sacoulas Progressive Martial Arts of NY ------------------------------ From: "TAD" Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 14:03:48 -0700 Subject: eskrima: On people snapping... My best friend just came back from the Philippines (Manila). He said that one evening his cousin noticed an 11-year old boy scoping out his cousin's car in a parking lot. Something suspicious. So his cousin approached the kid to ask what the matter was. The kid then turns around and stabs his cousin 11 times then runs away. Fortunately, not fatal. Just brings to mind that "you never know". The kid was well... a kid (size and looks). 11 years old!!!! Since taking up FMA I admit that I now tend to walk away from potential situations. I respect the fact that I know I can get cut more than a hundred ways. Of course, it also does not help that a good number of people (there) walk around with fan knives or guns. Nor that death or violence is more (for lack of a better word) tolerated - just look at the Filipino news shows on cable where they show stabbings, shootings and actual morgue bodies. Discretion is the better part of valor.... anywhere. It ain't worth it. Tito Tito Deveyra tdeveyra@emelnitz.ucla.edu ** Don't be irreplaceable. If you can't be replaced, you can't be promoted. - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: info@kalieskrima.com Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:26:01 -0500 Subject: eskrima: search back digests Ray, I have had a blast playing around back issues of the digest. I did a search on my name and had no idea that I had posted so much. Try it out on your own names. My earliest post was back at the beginning of v.3. Is that as far as the archives go? It may have been around that time that we went to a digest rather than multiple messages. Thanks for setting that up, it is a great feature. See you in the sticks, Dale Rocky, I also tried to find your fictional essay where in the midst of a conflict, you made a mental note to fire Short Stick. That really cracked me up. ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 14:59:21 PST Subject: Re: eskrima: search back digests > I have had a blast playing around back issues of the digest. I did a search > on my name and had no idea that I had posted so much. Try it out on your > own names. My earliest post was back at the beginning of v.3. Is that as > far as the archives go? On that server, yes. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 14:45:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #35 *************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, and Inayan Eskrima Standard disclaimers apply.