From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #42 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Mon, 24 Jan 2000 Vol 07 : Num 042 In this issue: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #41 eskrima: mea culpas all around please... eskrima: re:Burt's Comments on Straightblastgym.com eskrima: More or less my point eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #41 eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #41 eskrima: Need help finding an old book. eskrima: FMA & Morals eskrima: They have a school for that? eskrima: chicago area schools eskrima: whoz who eskrima: Re: P.Martino's post on ED #41 [none] ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, and Inayan Eskrima Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BENRBRAUN@aol.com Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:38:43 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #41 In a message dated 1/24/00 10:55:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: <> Hubud is for the most part an excercise in SENSITIVITY. The drill is not merely meant to perfect your parying and striking skills. Granted this is the initial aim of the drill but when one learns the parys and the strikes then the excercise is all sensitivity. In addition hubud serves as a platform to work on kilaps, guntings, locks, disarms and everything else. If you can't use the technique during real time hubot you'll never be able to use it when you need it. Hubud is obviously not something you would perform in a real altercation the same way it is done at the school, but the attributes and skills that are learnt by training with hubud correctly are certainly aplicable. Perhaps this never was apparent to Burt, in wich case I would argue that he has missed the point of hubot. <> I have problems with people that claim that training methods that have been used in the FMA for centuries will never be effective. Ben ------------------------------ From: tenrec Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 16:40:58 +0000 Subject: eskrima: mea culpas all around please... Maj. Ken McD wrote in response to my reaction to the Sunderland article: >Additional response: I did not take your response personally. However, >I believe you overreacted and missed the central theme, re: a light >hearted look at a cultural phenomena. and to my other post (to steve) he also responded with: >Response: Mr. Tenrec I respectfully pose a question since I respect your >opinions. Do you debate and question in an open fashion ? Also, if I >subsequently disagree with you are you accepting of divergent thought. I >was curious since I am new to the list and like to know what may occur. >Thanks. Also, if I >subsequently disagree with you are you accepting of divergent thought. I >was curious since I am new to the list and like to know what may occur. >Thanks. My profuse blanket APOLOGIES to both Mr. McD and to Steve for the following: 1. About the Sunderland Article: I am sorry you thought I was displeased with the article, or that I was responding negatively to what Mr. Sunderland wrote. On the contrary, I thought it was a hoot and a howl (i.e. very funny). I liked it so much that I attempted to give a "reason" for each type of name...each reason being a joke. Upon rereading it just now, I can see that it DOES sound serious. (And nobody got the joke about Apple Pie's sister Tina...Tina Pie, get it? get it?....oh brother) Anyway it was not meant to be taken seriously. (Nothing sadder than composing a four-page joke and no one getting it.) Boy is my face red. (BTW: On the Sunderland article: nice post!) 2. About my response to steve (about the dueling etc etc): AGain, it was a childish heckle about his use of one insignificant word (ALMOST) which I thought might be funny to jump on...again a joke that went flat. My apologies to you both for the misunderstanding on this. Guess I'll keep my day job. My joke-writing career is over... :( >Do you debate and question in an open fashion ? Always and quite loudly when necessary...please feel free to join in at any time... :) >Also, if I >subsequently disagree with you are you accepting of divergent thought. I >was curious since I am new to the list and like to know what may occur. >Thanks. Nothing. Well not entirely true...I'll probably cry. But aside from that, absolutely nothing. Please keep posting whatever and whenever you wish, Maj. Ken...I personally don't agree with anyone on this digest (well, hardly ever), but I always enjoy "hearing" what's on everyone's mind...this digest always makes me pause and think... Well, back to SOB mode! :) (geez, I can't believe nobody got the Gigi joke either) tenrec (ten as in ten toes which are in my mouth, rec as in "wreck" which is what I am now) tenrec@avcorner.com (in Cyberspace, no one can tell you're funny) ------------------------------ From: Patrick Davies Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:04:16 -0000 Subject: eskrima: re:Burt's Comments on Straightblastgym.com My own personal view is that hubud is an attributes provider and is a tremendous vehicle in which to approach the empty hand and espada y daga techniques. It can allow you the route in which to increase your familiarity in that area. Of course no fool is going to walk up to you and engage in hubud, but the attributes developed from that training can provide you with the proper basis in which to develop. It can help with your footwork, hand to foot co ordination and timing. Like anything else we can get trapped in things and this is where maybe there is reason to challenge set ideas. There is a common trait on this list to feel insulted if someone questions the validity of something. If you are comforthable with the knowledge that what you do is right you shouldn't get upset with the suggestion. Sometimes, as is the plea of mr Reiter, the way we express ourselves may differ in the way others interpret what we say. I have had previous correspondence with Mr Richardson, who in no way am I associated with for any gain. "Many people are quoting me as saying that "Trapping doesn't work." I have never said this. ....!" >From my discussions which would be unfair to print here without first the authors permission, I realise that what Burton was saying was what many of us here say. Now I have yet to read the article so I cannot comment fully but if someone has an opinion then when they discuss it on a forum its well worthy of looking at it without immediately discarding it. We are adults after all One of the attributes claimed by many FMA people in my experience is that they are more effective than certain other sport orientated ma. Then certain people exposed that as a myth in some areas. I refer to groups such as the DB etc. This however is not a universally accepted approach and so questioning of the way we train will still be discussed and will see controversy because of it. I for one am happy to hear it. I d rather be challenged in an intellectual forum than find that my training methods were weak when it matters the most. Best regards Pat Davies Aberdeen Martial Arts Group. UK From: tcsno Burt Richardson made an interesting comment in Matt Thornton's page. He said roughly,,....He practiced hubud for 12 years, never was able to apply it, and never saw anyone apply it(I guess that means Inosanto, Illustrisimo, and Gaje, also) or use it in a fight. Gee, I see Carlos Machado use it from the guard (he called it a block from Chinese MA) in Dog Bros. video's, and I see Larry Hartsell use it as part of his boxing matrix in his first video. Hmmmm, I guess Hi-Performance Martial Arts doesn't view the above gentlemen's fighting experiences as real or valid. Same page, Thornton says that Sumbrada, etc, will never be effective training methods. ------------------------------ From: Rocky Pasiwk Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 13:08:05 -0500 Subject: eskrima: More or less my point > At least I would probably still be here, maybe not so many others.?. > > More or less my point Ray, they had no influence in the other masters training/ability at all. They just open doors and let the world know of FMA. Which indirectly gave many a great masters a larger group of informed people who previously would have never known what the FMA's were. Rocky ------------------------------ From: d g Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:34:54 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #41 eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com wrote: > > From: "Marc Halleck" > Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 08:09:56 -0600 > Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #40 > > Pete Hetrick teaches out of Beloit Wisconsin, he is certified by Guro Dan > and Larry Hartsell, He is awesome and a really nice guy. i dont know how > far it is from you though. > Too far. He is 4 hrs away. Donna - -- Me and my shadow ------------------------------ From: sikal@yahoo.com Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 13:10:37 -0500 Subject: eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #41 Ray, while it is true that Dan and Remy weren't the sole pushers of FMA ... you have to admit that they were very instrumental in their own ways. Regardless of personal feelings about either individual or their martial methodologies, I think the FMA would have a very different public face (maybe better, maybe worse) than it does today. People outside of the FMA community have rarely ever heard of Dizon, Cabales, Sarmiento, Lucay, Inay, Latosa, Taboada, etc. To us in the FMA, these names (again, regardless of what we may think of any of them) are reasonably well known ... but outside of the FMA most people, if they've heard of FMA at all, associate it either with Remy and/or Dan because they have been so visible to the public at large. Just my humble 2 cents for the day ... Regards, Mike ==== I am prepared to meet my Maker. Whether my Maker is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting me is another matter. -- Winston Churchill ------------------------------ From: David Fulton Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 13:18:24 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Need help finding an old book. Hi! A friend of mine is looking for an old book. It's name is "Karunungan sa Larong Arnis", and was written by someone by the name of "Cruz". It is supposedly the first book ever published on arnis. Any leads on locating a copy of this book would be greatly appreciated. Sincerely, Dave Fulton dfulton@computerpackages.com Full Contact Martial Arts Association "As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another." ------------------------------ From: "Applied Combat Sciences" Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 13:54:18 -0500 Subject: eskrima: FMA & Morals Filipino or any other Martial Art is just that a Martial Art. The morality of it's user depends on his or her truest Character. Character is quite simply doing what is right for the sake of doing what is right. Not for other people to see or recongnize. Sometimes Character runs into conflict with passion. Passion is doing what you want for the sake of what you want and to heck with anything else. I am not saying that Pasion is bad but the practice of putting pasion over doing what is right (Character) is very bad. Your practice becomes your habit, your habit becomes your manner and your manner becomes your life. People who wish to evade this argument will immediately raise the question of "Oh Yeah well who is to say what is right and wrong?". Well we all know what is right and wrong. Our parents taught it to us when we were Kids. The Tora teaches it to us, The Bible teaches it to us (oh my Gosh he mentioned the Bible) Laws have been written to protect what is right from those who would do wrong. It is not that we do not know what is right or wrong, it is rather that some simply wish to do wrong and they are not strong enough to admit otherwise. Small wrongs if no one sees, then it must be OK. Big Wrongs that everyone sees, well then we have an excuse. Bottom line Morality is the consistent true application of Character. Either you apply it or you don't, either you have it or you don't, no matter what Martial Art you are in. It is my opinion that we all should do our best to apply Character in our everyday life but I am not here to debate that. This post is not directed to anyone or any group specifically it is rather to specifically address the question of Morality in Martial Arts. If it applys to anyone or any group that is for your heart to decide. By definition of Truth there must be a Falsehood, by Definition of Falsehood there must be a Truth There is no grey area Allen J. Sachetti ------------------------------ From: Drew Zimba Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:18:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: They have a school for that? >I am going to be up in the Chicago area for about 3 >months this summer for a naval rating school curriculum outline: month 1 -- in-ies month 2 -- out-ies month 3 -- lint magnetude Huh... navAl? Oh, never mind... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: "Marc Halleck" Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 14:30:29 -0600 Subject: eskrima: chicago area schools Hi, up in the north suburbs is Northshore Academy of Martial Arts in Libertyville Illinois. we train FMA and am certified by Guro Ron Balicki, you are welcome to come and train. Aslo Guro Ron Balicki and Diana Lee Inosanto will be at NSA Martial Arts on Feb 5 - 6 for more info call NSA at 847-573-1672 Thanks ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 13:01:34 PST Subject: eskrima: whoz who > Ray, while it is true that Dan and Remy weren't the sole pushers of FMA ... > you have to admit that they were very instrumental in their own ways. No doubt about it! All I'm saying is that there are many that were influential. Many also that influenced Remy and Dan. Most martial artists probably only know of Dan from his close relationship with Bruce Lee and JKD, but yes many know he is much more than that. Also, once we get outside of the US, I suspect their influence is reduced significantly. I'd rather point to the generation that is recently & now dieing off (Canetes, Ilustrisimos, Villabrilles, Dizons, Bacons, Cabales, etc) as those that brought the arts to popularity and made the FMAs highly popular (well, sorta :) thru influencing the Gajes, Inays, Largusas, Inosantos, Presas, Sulites, Bustillos, etc. IMHO the first group and their contemporaries of the first group are the ones that got us to where we are now. (But I think we're now off on a different thread than where Rock was headed.) Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com P.S. And please do not read my comments as a slam against Remy or Dan as they are not intended to be such. ------------------------------ From: Joshua Hutchinson Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:48:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: Re: P.Martino's post on ED #41 I liked your post! That's all... Back to work. ;( Mabuhay ang Eskrima!!! Fry Bread _______________________________________________________ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit http://freeworld.excite.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 13:42:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #42 *************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, and Inayan Eskrima Standard disclaimers apply.