From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #48 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Thur, 27 Jan 2000 Vol 07 : Num 048 In this issue: eskrima: Re: sumbrada cycles eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #46 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #47 eskrima: The football thing eskrima: FMA Instructors database now available eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #47 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #47 [none] eskrima: Stick making- FMA GROUND FIGHTING eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #47 eskrima: Recent event eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #45 eskrima: Re: Estoka Parada [none] eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #47 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #46 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #46 [none] ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, and Inayan Eskrima Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Branwen Thomas" Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 17:58:41 -0330 Subject: eskrima: Re: sumbrada cycles Rob wrote: >Roaring girl A attacks with a strike, >Roaring girl B counters that strike and returns a strike, >Roaring girl A counters that strike and returns a strike, >etc, etc, >No more need to worry about remembering patterns. :-) heh heh heh...;) i know, i know, it's not about memorizing patterns, but bear with me, i'm still only a youngster in the art, so i have to have a basic pattern to start with, and then break out of it a bit at a time. We also do "free-flow" stuff...veeery slooowly to avoid them "big swole up knuckles" (not very ladylike ;) and the plan is to get to where it doesn't matter what strike is coming... Randy: hi; thanks for the drill - haven't seen it before so it'll be a good challenge to work out...and thank you for the politeness of "Ms.", but please feel free to call me Jocelyne/Branwen/Hardcore Girl/C4 etc...as someone recently pointed out, it's not what you call me, it's what I answer to that's important :D and thanks to everyone else who's sent me info! Roaring Girl * Purveyor Of Fine Books * Beater Of Bodhrans * Smiter Of The Wicked * * Owned By Angus, Most Elegant And Pleasing Of Cats * ------------------------------ From: "Cory Eicher" Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 15:55:22 CST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #46 Rocky, I have no problem sending emails to A&E as you suggested (in fact, it sounds like a good idea), but what email address will reach them? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Kurokuwa@aol.com Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:55:57 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #47 << ESTOKA PARADA, neither he nor I nor any of my friends know what this is. Ilooked it up in a Spanish dictionary and got as far as something like : moving stick' which tells us a lot. Can anyone enlighten us. >> Actually, what the dictionary probably meant was closer to "unmoving stick." The Spanish words "estoca" and esctocada" mean a thrust of the type delivered by rapiers and stilettos. The Italian fencing term "stoccata" and even our own word "stuck" have similar meanings. In a general context it can also be applied to thrust form a stick. "Parada" means stopped, as in intercepted. The Filipino spelling "Estoka Parada" would simply translate to "intercepted thrust." Naturally, this can relate to a FMA system on many levels. Perhaps Crafty, who has an understanding of Spanish etymology as regards FMA, knows more about this system. Crafty? James Loriega ------------------------------ From: "Kevin Sheehan" Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 18:37:24 -0500 Subject: eskrima: The football thing When you think about it the "hubud" motion is a lot like the football "swim move" many D line men train to beat the O line. I think the person who popularized it the most was Reggie White of the Green Bay Packers ------------------------------ From: Loki Jorgenson Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:05:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: FMA Instructors database now available Looking for FMA instructors in your town? Finally!!! The long overdue overhaul of the FMA Instructors database is done. All the listings have been moved from the old database that Mike Seilnacht compiled to the new system. The new system is entirely interactive. It allows you to view, search, browse, edit and delete on the spot. Hope you find it useful http://www.pekiti-tirsia.org:8080/FMA/ A few notes: o if you previously submitted a listing to the old database, you should go check it out - if you haven't already received an e-mail telling you the Owner/Password that you need to change or delete it, then send e-mail to "fma@pekiti-tirsia.org" - say who you are and what listing(s) you want to change o currently the server uses port :8080 - in the future it is likely to change to the default 80 port - but for now you need it o you will see that other services are due - in particular the organizations database should be ready shortly - PLEASE DON'T SUBMIT ORGANIZATIONS LISTINGS TO THE INSTRUCTORS DATABASE o if you have any problems, PLEASE report them to fma@pekiti-tirsia.org so we can fix them for everyone - try to provide as much detail as possible (a bug with the submission interface was recently fixed thanks to several responsible submittors) o any comments or suggestions will be greatly appreciated even just personal preferences about appearance and interface - -- 'gards, /\ Pekiti-Tirsia kali / \ silat Jati Wisesa Loki Jorgenson < MANOyBASTON Martial Arts > / __ \ Dog Brothers MA loki@pekiti-tirsia.org (604) 254-0240 / _L \ Majapahit Empire www.pekiti-tirsia.org/ManoBaston/ /________\ (Inosanto-IMAIA) ------------------------------ From: AnimalMac@aol.com Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 19:27:46 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #47 In a message dated 1/26/00 2:12:50 PM Mountain Standard Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << On yesterdays's short 948 mile flight from San Jose to Denver Damn Ray, you show up in Denver, just as I leave for Sweden. Next time you are in time come on down. ------------------------------ From: RBalicki@aol.com Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 19:59:24 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #47 In a message dated 01/26/2000 1:12:51 PM Pacific Standard Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Now I might be european and not supposed to understand this, - but I think it should be the other way around: A defensive lineman getting past the offensive linemen to sack the QB or...?? Anyway, - I recently (4 months ago) started playing on the university american football team here in Germany, - and I can surely attest that FMA helps you as defensive lineman. It at least enables me as not even a rookie but an absolute beginner, to get past people with years of experience on the offensive line. Cheers, Jonas >> I am sorry. Your right. I wrote thiat post at about 3:30 in the morning and was half a sleep. Ron Balicki ------------------------------ From: Luis Pellicer Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 09:33:54 +0800 Subject: [none] >ESTOKA PARADA, In Tagalog this would mean "Parade Stick" or "Parked Stick" I would imagine the second would be the appropiate meaning in the sense of "Stopping a Stick". Same with "Hubud", it is sometimes spelled "Hubad" in the digest which means to literally, "strip your clothes off" or "Naked". LSPIII ------------------------------ From: Stikfyter@aol.com Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 20:48:01 EST Subject: eskrima: Stick making- FMA GROUND FIGHTING Does anyone have any info. on how to make or bake sticks? Is there a proven formula, or trick to look for while you are choosing wood/ baking/ etc? I would like to start experimenting with softwoods. I know. they will splinter, but if they are soaked and baked? Any info is helpful. Thank You. PS- What is the name of the Filipino Ground Fighting style? I seem to keep recalling the word Dumog. Any info? ------------------------------ From: "Carlton H. Fung, D.D.S." Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 23:51:23 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #47 - ----- Original Message ----- > From: brosterj@qesmansfield.schoolzone.co.uk > Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 15:59:25 -0000 > Subject: eskrima: estoka parada > > I have a friend who is a JKD type and poses me various questions, but I can't answer this one. > > He says that at the Impact Academy in Stoke on Trent (Cass Madga's rep in England)a lot of the guys were talking about something called ESTOKA PARADA, neither he nor I nor any of my friends know what this is. EP is a static setup used in the Villibrille system (It has been really long since I learned this pretty sure I'm right) . It is part of the repetative footwork of their numerato and has set hand postures before the numbered strikes Regards, Carlton H. Fung, D.D.S. Redondo Beach, Ca. ------------------------------ From: "Kevin Davis" Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 21:04:09 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Recent event I thought I would share the following with digest members: Last weekend one of my LEO students had to use his ASP baton to save himself from death or serious bodily injury. The officer, who was working off-duty at a metropolitan housing apartment building, responded to a check the disturbance type of call. Turns out the occupant, who was manic-depressive and off his meds was trashing his own apartment. My guy knocks on the door which is opened by the bare chested approx.300 lb.mental. Before my guy can even speak, the EDP (emotionally disturbed person) says, "I'm gonna kill you!"and punches the officer in the head breaking the orbit of his eye and leaving him dazed. The officer, who told me he knew if he fell to the ground he would be seriously stomped or worse, had his baton in the closed position in his hand was able to move away from the EDP, expand the baton and deliver blows to the suspects head to keep him off of him. The EDP pursued my officer down two floors actively attacking him. The officer was able to get to the entrance to let in backup officer which were responding to his radio calls for assistance. The EDP died on scene of a heart attack in a phenomenon known as Excited Delirium or Acute Exhaustive Mania. The officer was quick to thank me and his training for saving his life (I have been harping on officers that work plainclothes or off-duty jobs to carry an intermediate weapon, i.e.-OC or baton)for some time. The officer feels OC would not have worked. I pointed out to the officer that he should take credit for saving his own life. That his preparedness and fighting will kept him alive. Would your training and will see you through an attack from a deranged 300 lb.mental? If the answer is no maybe you and I should train harder and more realistically! KD ------------------------------ From: ginom@info.com.ph Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 10:28:32 +0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #45 >From: Matt Albanese >Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 14:30:38 -0600 (CST) >Subject: eskrima: Re:SCARS and FMA My two cents on SCARS: Really, the only useful techniques I found were take downs like kenjat siko and some dumog style techniques, which of course I later learned once I started FMA. If you already have experience in FMA, I would doubt that you need any of it. Hope that helps. Matt Albanese Thanks for the advice, Mr. Albanese. I truly appreciate it. I've been getting private e-mail that unanimously echoes your observation. I have yet to receive a comment that says otherwise. Regards, Gino ginom@info.com.ph ------------------------------ From: Mike Casto Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 18:03:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: Re: Estoka Parada I don't know for sure, but I'll make an educated guess. We don't use the term "estoka parada" ... but we do use the term "parada" and we do it with a stick, so I guess it could be termed "etsoka parada" as well. However, I would guess that it's at least related to what Cass' group is doing over there given that Guro Cass and my instructor have similar backgrounds (i.e.: they've trained with a lot of the same people). I believe that my instructor got the "parada" from Diony Canete ... but I could be wrong so get out your grain of salt for that comment. What we call a "parada" is done in a solo drill. Imagine an angle 2 (i.e.: right backhand) done with generous energy and carried to the floor while, simultaneously, your right hand goes up with the palm out. Now, the application of this could be that as your opponent delivers an angle 2, you do a "drift" (angle 2 to opponent's hand while your left hand comes under his arm) as you carry through to hit your opponent's foot (i.e.: where you hit the ground in the solo version), you body drops and your left hand carries his attack over your head (your left fingers could also end up in his face/eyes if your close enough). Hopefully that description is enough to get a visual from. I'm not sure that this is the same technique that they're referring to ... but my guess would be that it's at least related. Now, as to translating the words "estoka parada" to this movement ... I have no clue :-) Regards, Mike __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Luis Pellicer Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 10:06:03 +0800 Subject: [none] >I remember in the past talking to Guro Dan about the time he spent at the >Dallas Cowboy's training camp. I remember him talking about Randy White (an >offensive line man on the Cowboy's). Randy had credited over 15 of his sacks >to Guro Dan's Hubad. Getting past defensive line men can't be that easy, I >know that football is not combat, but Hubad did prove it self useful. > > I was training with Tim Tackett and Bert Poe when they and Dan did the Dallas Cowboys training camp, and saw tapes of the offensive line using the move during practice. (Along with film of Tony Dorsett trying to throw a Muay Thai round kick, TRYING!) It worked in Football, how well it would work against a well thrown straight right, well. I was with Tim Tackett Jr. and Dennis Blue (a JKD instructor, now.) at a bar where we used to hang out, and got into it with a College Football lineman. I tried it when he came at me FOR REAL, sorry not quite the same as in training. Straight rights, left hooks, fish hooks and snap kicks to the groin saved my butt against a much larger opponent. When Dennis saw me try to apply the Hubud, he said he would never "try and use that shit" after seeing it in an actual encounter. Nice training drill, but keep it in the gym. LSPIII ------------------------------ From: TMo9589446@aol.com Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 21:09:53 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #47 I do have the "Hostile Control System" and, while it has some good information in it, it really does not have that much to recommend it. It is basic common sence,some body mechanics, some good advise, and a bit of hype. If you saw that tapes, the first thing you nwould say is, 'I knew that already'. 2 good products from TSR are "Secrets of modren professional warriors", which deals with firearm disarms, and the 2 audio tapes "The heart of the warrior", by Dr Ross Stewart. The secrets videotape was made by 2 guys whose approach to gun disarms is similer to the Dog Brothers approach to stick fighting, they put wax slugs in the guns, and tried to shoot each other while the other tried to take the gun to take the gun away. It was very educational, and worth the price. So remember, TSR is not all crap, its merely mostly crap. ------------------------------ From: David Reyes Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 22:15:37 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #46 > The > information I have is that it was called "Herada Batangueno" A larga method (30"-32" garrote/alpanghe) born from the province of Batangas. The Hirada from the spanish word "girada" translates to mass conflict. "Batanggenyo" is one who hails from Batangas, hence a style from Batangas created to fight multiple opponents. This style was tested during the De Salcedo conflict and has lineage to Dr. Jose Rizal, an expert in spanish/european fencing. As such he was able to create a method that could possibly counter the bladed methods used by the Spaniards. The defining characteristic of this method is the use of continuous upward slash known as "sarwag". Sige, David Reyes ------------------------------ From: "Carlton H. Fung, D.D.S." Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 23:44:26 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #46 - ----- Original Message ----- > Doc Fung Wrote something about Dr's and seminars which I pretty much > agree with but at least they were Dr's before they went to the seminar, > that is right isn't it Doc? ( I am not being a smart ass here ) Please > don't tell me that they weren't Dr's first!! Or are you just kidding? I am not kidding! In all of our professions there is a certain level of expertise we all have. It is the fool who is either too stupid or too bold or too greedy to step beyond them at the expense of his patient, student, or client. > > On another note Doc, since we haven't communicated in a while, you > know it always struck me funny you being a Dentist and an Instructor Sorry...Dentist yes, Instructor no. I am a perpetual student of comparative MA and do not even hold a white belt in any system. While I am most versed in the JKD/FMA arena for personal reasons I avoid all titles/credentials in MA except student. >the next time Crafty has one of his get > together, I am sure he hands out flyers of something , at least he > should. You should get the exclusive rights from him to advertise on the > other side, Can't you just see it, on one side " DB martial arts invites > you to experience Real stick fighting and what not. ANd on the other > side "Present this flyer and receive 25% off your first visit to Doc > Fungs Dental clinic". Man I crack myself up!!! > > Of course if you guys use this I'll expect my customary 15% > > Rocky Actually the DB venue in the park is about 1 mile from my office. I rarely miss one for its entertainment value and to say hi to guys I see but twice a year. Crafty does bring in some interesting surprises e.g. Minerva. I think he should bring in the Budwieser Ring Girls but the park gatherings are getting pretty huge and it is a family show...my 6 year old girl loves to watch stick fights. Finally, I have an aversion to fixing things I break so I don't miss! How's that for a little bit of arrogance. However, Rock you have my personal invitation if you ever break something out I'll be glad to fix it. Regards, Carlton H. Fung, D.D.S. Redondo Beach, Ca. ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 06:49:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #48 *************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, and Inayan Eskrima Standard disclaimers apply.