From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #96 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Fri, 25 Feb 2000 Vol 07 : Num 096 In this issue: eskrima: Re: Road Flares eskrima: kitty litter eskrima: www.fullcontacthi.com eskrima: Rick Faye's Panantukan book eskrima: Re: Attacking the Attacker eskrima: The wrong question eskrima: Question for the LEO's [none] ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, the Martial Arts Resource, Inayan Eskrima Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Just This Guy Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 19:12:54 -0600 (CST) Subject: eskrima: Re: Road Flares Road flares brought up another interesting thought. Those things burn really really hot (you can (in theory) cut stop signs with them) and they are next to impossible to put out. I was once trying to put one out by jamming it into damp soil and it acted like a relight candle. Also, they are extremely unpleasant, and I'd think the pain compliance factor would be high, so high that it would be next to impossible to seriously hurt someone with one. All they'd need, even if they were crazy to keep coming at you, would be a little taste and then they'd be ten feet away. ------------------------------ From: Chad Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 17:53:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: kitty litter [Before anyone jumps in it ISN'T so that I can tie someone up with the jumper cables, whack him with the machete, and bury him in the woods by the light of the road flares :-) And you forgot kill the smell with the kitty litter. ===== "Draw me not without reason, sheath me not without honor" Chad Hawaii __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Chad Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 17:58:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: www.fullcontacthi.com The site wwwhelper.com/sigarta has been changed to the address www.fullcontacthi.com. Everything is still the same, we just changed the site address. You can find out information about full contact stick fighting in Hawaii along with a few articles and pictures. Class information is also on the web site for those interested. For those interested in full contact sparring but not sure if it is somthing they would like to do, there will be an article up next week about "progressions in sparring". Invitation is also open for those that want to come down and see what it is like to watch and/or participate. If not sure if you have the skill to do so, that's what the class is for. Once again the new address is www.fullcontacthi.com, check it out and sign the guestbook. I'm thinking about holding a Women's Self defense Course sometime in mid/late April in Hawaii. Subjects included will be 1)awareness, 2)immediate defense, and 3)how to deal with the situation after(legality, etc.)amongst other things. Anyone in Hawaii interested e-mail me and I'll send you more detailed information. Discounts will be given on groups of 2 or more. Course will be video taped and a free copy given to those that participate and bring a blank tape. ===== "Draw me not without reason, sheath me not without honor" Chad Hawaii __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Watch Dog Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 18:36:05 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Rick Faye's Panantukan book Hi everyone, I understand Rick Faye just came out with a new book on panantukan. Has anyone seen it yet who can give us a review? Watchdog ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ From: Cplr50@aol.com Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 23:17:00 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Attacking the Attacker In a message dated 02/24/2000 2:35:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: > My question is: Can I physically knock those guys off of the poor soul they > accosted or do I have to try to get their attention? My purpose being to > try to keep them from killing the man. How can I help that man without > putting myself in legal trouble? This question arises because an old > instructor of mine said that if we hit a man to try and get him off the > person he was attacking, we could be charged as attacking the attacker. Any > > input? Well, that raises a few questions.. the first would be why wouldnt you leave first and then call the police ? After all they could have chosen you? As for being the " Good Samaritin", and trying to stop, from what you describe, a felony assualt, you are probably covered.. however, try explaing that to the arresting officer...:) They tend not to listen to well.... they see bloodied bodies with welts and they tend to think, "..Hmm.. let's cuff them now and run their finger prints to see if there are any priors or outstanding warrents. Once that's done we'll let the D.A. and the Judge figure it out".. Hope this helps Stone ------------------------------ From: "Patrick Christian" Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 06:35:44 -0500 Subject: eskrima: The wrong question Eric wrote: Can I physically knock those guys off of the poor soul they accosted or do I have to try to get their attention?... I understand that you were tossing the question out for our legal staff to answer. However, are you asking the right question? I'm sure that the legal eagles hate me now, but can you stand around and let these guys beat up a defenseless albeit drunk man to death? (assuming you think his life is in danger) If anyone answers yes, quit your MA. If you found out that it was illegal for you to help this man, would you? If it isn't illegal to stand around and watch, it should be. Patrick N. Christian Inayan School of Eskrima Lenoir City, TN ------------------------------ From: "Ken Grubb" Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 01:52:31 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Question for the LEO's Eric Primm wrote: > A friend of mine told me a story. He was at a party where > three men were rolling dice to see who they would fight. > When the person, who was half passed out from drinking, > was chosen, the group threw a pillow case over the guys > head and started beating him with a bat. Perhaps before things reached the point of intervening in an assault with a deadly weapon or attempted murder, it would be prudent to: 1) Tell the intended victim "Look dude, you're about to become a victim" 2) Notify those in charge of the party of what was brewing 3) Don't frequent parties where such things go on > Can I physically knock those guys off of the poor soul > they accosted or do I have to try to get their attention? Laws on the use of force vary, and not a little bit, from one state to the next. Your best bet is seek out an attorney who specializes in issues of guns, lethal force, self defense, etc. They will likely be knowledgeable about such things. > My purpose being to try to keep them from killing the > man. Certainly a laudable goal. > How can I help that man without putting myself in legal > trouble? Alas, the protections afforded under so-called "Good Samaritan" laws do not apply to physical defense, only to matters of first aid and CPR. > This question arises because an old instructor of mine said > that if we hit a man to try and get him off the person he > was attacking, we could be charged as attacking the attacker. > Any input? You can ALWAYS be charged with assault even if you are 100 percent in the right. The charges could be dropped, the prosecutor could decline to prosecute, or the grand jury could choose not to indict. If avoiding charges is your primary concern, do not get involved. In the case of 3 men armed with a bat assaulting a man half unconscious from alcohol and with a pillowcase over his head, there is, IMHO, a clear example of disparity of force. Drunk, temporarily blinded, outnumbered, and an instrument being employed as a deadly weapon? I would reasonably believe they could easily kill their victim or inflict grievous bodily harm. Were I present, and in a place I could legally carry my firearm, I would probably draw and order the attackers off their victim "Don't Move! Drop the Weapon!" If they failed to comply, I'd shoot the one wielding the bat. As numbers diminish, so too does the disparity of force. However, even 2 men with a bat against a man drunk and half conscious with a pillowcase over his head still represents a lethal threat. OC might end the encounter without shooting or killing anyone, but one has to weigh the effects it will have on others in a confined space. Under Washington law, I believe one is justified using deadly force, so physical force to knock the attackers off their victim should be no problem. YMMV in other states. I should note that I am neither a police officer nor an attorney. Ken Grubb Bellevue, WA ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 07:14:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #96 *************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.