From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #118 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Wed, 8 March 2000 Vol 07 : Num 118 In this issue: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #117 eskrima: Jungle fighting eskrima: Re: weak spanish soldiers eskrima: Fitness/Fighting eskrima: Ground Knife Fighting eskrima: INOSANTO SEMINAR IN NYC eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #117 eskrima: FMA in the jungle eskrima: Flight and Fight eskrima: The Rogues gallery - no makeup allowed 8-) eskrima: NJ ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, the Martial Arts Resource, Inayan Eskrima Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AnimalMac@aol.com Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 10:14:38 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #117 In a message dated 3/7/00 7:37:53 AM Mountain Standard Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << As a Filipino who knows his country's history, let me tell you that the Spaniards won by reason of political strategy--pitting Visayans against Tagalogs, Bicolanos, Ilocanos against Moslems, Pampanguenos, etc. Next their priests did a great job of softening hostile hearts with the gospel. >> Ohhhhhhyeah! Your post covers many of the topics I didn't have time to mention. But boy are they important. The truth is imperialism has always relied on the tribal hatred and competition with each other. The tribal people would jump at the chance to zing thier own enemies. Unfortunately in doing so they slit thier own throats. Also let us not forget the influence that making money has on people. First comes the soldiers, then the priests then the businessmen. When some guy is making more money than he ever has in his life or than his father or grandfather did suddenly that isn't an oppressor -- he's my buddy. While that may not apply across the board, it still keeps the rivalry between the haves and the have nots going among the people. ------------------------------ From: AnimalMac@aol.com Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 10:34:17 EST Subject: eskrima: Jungle fighting In a message dated 3/7/00 7:37:53 AM Mountain Standard Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << recon was learning kali because one day on patrol in the south, a gorilla jumped out of the bushes and killed a solider or two before anyone could react - so depending on the environment - hand to hand may just be your greatest/most effective weapon To a point I agree...in fact in consideration of jungle warfare I added the creavat of "As allowed by circumstances." However, although they were training in hand-to-hand for such occassions, how many pistols, shotguns and CAR 15s do the recon units carry? As the cutlass developed to fight among the riggings of the ships where you couldn't move as well, many shorter guns came out of jungle warfare. Combat in the jungle still goes for distance. It's just that the distance is signficantly shorter and you may not see the guy you are shooting. The guerrilla you mentioned jumped out of the bushes, hit and then booked, using the jungle as cover. Unfortunately, while trunks may stop them, leaves don't stop bullets. The guy may or may not have survived his ambush if they raked the bush before he got to cover. Not finding a body in the jungle is real easy. Basically my point is in a one-on-one (as was the ambush) hand to hand is a very important issue. However you'll notice the guy didn't hang around to take on the entire squad under those same conditions. Remember martial arts techincally means the arts of war...that includes all sorts of things, just mano y mano, one-on-one fighting ------------------------------ From: Ludwig Schwarz Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 16:56:09 +0100 (MET) Subject: eskrima: Re: weak spanish soldiers > I am new on this list but I hope u guys would accept > my humble opinion on this. As a Filipino who knows > his country's history, let me tell you that the > Spaniards won by reason of political strategy--pitting > Visayans against Tagalogs, Bicolanos, Ilocanos against > Moslems, Pampanguenos, etc. My apologies! I didn't want to offend the filipinos on this list. Actually my father comes from Spain, and I myself grew up in that country, so I learned the same history "from the point of view" of the conquistadores ;-). And yes, you right, the spaniards won mostly by encouraging some tribes to fight against the others. The point I wanted to make was more or less the same that Marc MacYoung made some postings ago: It's nearly impossible for an untrained person, even if he is chopping crops all the day, to win a fair swordfight against a tarined soldier, i.e. someone who does swordfighting professionally to earn his living. [To Gints] > Agreed. Also, man-to-man bladed combat is also a game of numbers. > There > weren't many conquistadors. I would more than 300 have landed to fight > thousands of islanders? AFAIK there were less than 100 conquistadores in Mactan I recall reading some historical accounts of > Columbus that didn't need more than 20 soldiers to occupy a Caribbean > island. That's not amazing ;-). Amazing ist the fact that Francisco Pizarro managed to conquest the whole Kingdom of Peru, ruled by the powerful warrior Tribe of the Incas, with only 13 (thirteen!) conquistadores. But as said earlier, they managed to infuriate subordinate tribes against the government of the Incas, they split some Inca Nobles from the King and convinced them to support the spaniards, they spread legends of invulnerability and "fire cracking magic wands" betwenn the superstitious people etc. Yes, this was not done by "swordmanship". But even then, they did some really admirable soldierwork. For example when they were fighting to occupy an supposedly inconquerable Inca fortress located very far up in the mountains, they did an long, long march all around the mountain, carrying all their armors, weapons and supplies, climbed all the way up the mountain FROM THE OTHER SIDE, and appeared on the top of the mountain, in the back of their enemy fortifications, and able to shoot their rifles DOWN on their enemies... No, you can't really expect a farmer to stand up these kind of soldiers.IMHO the whole issue of the "weak soldiers" is an invention of books, comics and even films in which the lone hero is able to slaughter down entire armys of stupid enemies. You see "Zorro" fighting against the stupid, unshaven and always drunk mexican soldiers, you see Robin Hood fencing simultaneously against the four or five clumsy soldiers of the King, and even in contemporary action films you see some weirdo in fatigues or in a ninja outfit shooting down whole armies of uniformed soldiers in fictitious countries in the near east or south america, without any of the enemies bullets passing even near him, even if every one these soldiers probably would have spent a hundred times more hours in the shooting stand than the average teenager hero. Well, you see all these fictitious facts and always you get the message that soldiers are stupid and are bad fighters. And then you imagine some strong farmers with bolos.... ;-) Best wishes Ludwig from Germany - -- Sent through GMX FreeMail - http://www.gmx.net ------------------------------ From: Mike Casto Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 09:01:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: Fitness/Fighting While I agree that competition levels of fitness don't necessarily make any difference in a fight ... they may make a huge difference to survival. I mean, if I'm surrounded by five guys who are about to thrash me and I don't have an immediate way out, then I've only got 3 choices (and only 2 are acceptable to my way of thinking). 1) [the unacceptable one] is to take the beating and hope for the best 2) Try to create an opening and run like the Flash on metamphetamines 3) Try to beat all of them Of course, scenario 1 is technically an option ... but it's not acceptable in my worldview. Option 2 requires running ... and running requires fitness. Option 3 requires a long period of punishment (both given and received) ... this will also require fitness. Sure, in a 1-on-1 fight, your fitness isn't necessarily a factor so long as you're strong/quick/skilled (any combination will suffice) enough to beat him. But, against multiple opponents, or in a situation where you have to run/think/move quick after the fight, your fitness will play a more pivotal role. Regards, Mike __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Eric Knaus Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 11:06:09 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Ground Knife Fighting Regarding Andrew R Breton's knife scenario - Every position you described is bad for the guy without the knife. When I was training BJJ with John Machado (of the famous Machado Bros.) we explored just such a scenario. Other than watching a few Gatherings, John had not seen much in the way of weaponry but he was very curious to do a "what if?" with me holding the knife and him with a BJJ black belt. After about 40 minutes of being sliced and diced from about every position we could think of, John reflected for a moment and then commented that the only strategy he could think of against a skilled knifer was to stop the knife first. We then revisited each position again and he literally attacked my weapon hand with his entire body - quite successfully I might add. I was able to switch the knife from hand to hand in the early "rounds" but he soon had the antidote to that. The entire scuffle was over the knife, and, granted, there were still several positions where the knife was insurmountable (most notably when I was in the mount or on his back). We both came out of that session with a greater respect for a knife (especially John) and with the understanding that if you have a black belt in BJJ to the level that John has, you stand a much better chance of handling a skilled knifer. Important note; I said a "better chance" i.e. his odds were 50/50 if we started from scratch and only if he could get a good handle on my weapon hand early on. In regards to some of the knife vs bat discussions, I have a strong leaning towards the blade because most fighters will have a harder time controlling a heavy blunt weapon no matter which end they hold. If the fight has any likelihood of going to the ground, give me a knife. Eric Knaus ------------------------------ From: NYJKDC@aol.com Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 16:00:33 EST Subject: eskrima: INOSANTO SEMINAR IN NYC Just a Reminder: Progressive Martial Arts Academy Presents our 4th Annual Seminar with Martial Arts Legend GURO DAN INOSANTO =B7 JEET KUNE DO =B7 FILIPINO KALI =B7 SILAT=20 2-Day Seminar Saturday March 11th & Sunday March 12th 2000 11:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. both days (registration begins at 10:30 a.m. sharp) Location: Bayside HS Gymnasium 32nd Ave. & 208th St., Bayside, NY =20 Fee: Advanced registration: $130 - 2 Days $80 - 1 Da= y At the door: $150 - 2 Days $9= 0=20 - - 1 Day For more info contact Nick Sacoulas at 718-461-0700 or email=20 nick@progressivemartialarts.com=20 ------------------------------ From: "Steven Drape" Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 17:49:26 PST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #117 > >Combat fitness is indeed an important part of any MA's >survival repertoire. While it is true that the any physical >exercise that is less than 2 minutes in duration will be >anerobic in nature, aerobic fitness (having some wind) will >let you recover faster and make better decisions under >stress. I also believe in fitness, but I'm talking about fighting. Your point about recovery and decision-making is moot in an altercation that lasts 30-40 seconds. (Ever try to make a sound tactical decision when >you're winded?) Don't get me wrong, I firmly believe that >most fights are over in seconds and never get past that >anerobic threshold but conditioning does have an important >function in combat. When my SWAT team hits a house >(narcotics search warrant) for instance, the time frame is >usually less than 60 seconds. It is amazing that although >we don't run (you only move as fast as you can shoot >accurately) how winded you are. Here, you are talking about preparing for a potentially life-threatening situation. You think about what is coming, your heart-rate increases, your adrenaline has been elevated for perhaps minutes, and you're probably just plain nervous/scared, depending on the severity of the situation. The adrenaline is what takes it all out of you. In most fights, while the aggressive posturing , etc. may have gone on for a while, that preparation for combat that you are describing generally has not taken place, or if it has, not to that same degree. >In terms of fighting let me relate what one of my combat >shooting instructor/mentors, Evan Marshall (Detroit PD >sergeant/retired) said about his "many" gunfights. He never >once saw a guy holding a stopwatch and a tape measure. In >other words, the mere fact you are in a fight to begin with >is an "anomaly." Anything can happen in street combat from >standing with weapons to going to the ground, from over with >one or two blows to locked into a position until one or the >combatants either is stopped (structurally i.e.-broken >bones, choke, etc..) or is unable to continue due to >fatigue. You're correct and I agree with you, except that in my experience, usually "anything could happen" is not what happens. Usually, one guy takes out the other in short order, or somebody breaks it off and runs. > >If we are to really prepare for combat we must not disregard >conditioning. > Again, no disagreement. It is always better to be fit than not, I was just commenting on the experiences I have had. Steve ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Rudolf Kimbel (100432.650@compuserve.com)" <100432.650@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 21:53:12 -0500 Subject: eskrima: FMA in the jungle to:INTERNET:eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Steve wrote: >training along side of the PI force recon (their special forces) - recon was >learning kali because one day on patrol in the south, a gorilla jumped out >of the bushes and killed a solider or two before anyone could react - so Was that a guerrilla or really a gorilla ??? If yes, how would you plan to fight a gorilla with FMA? I'd prefer a shotgun. Rudolf. ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 19:31:46 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Flight and Fight A Howl etc: Herewith my 9 fingered yip on fitness and fighting. No argument with the points that Rocky and others were making, but I would add my experience growing up in NYC. Muggers are hunters looking for dinner. If you are on a subway platform late at night (or any isolated situation-- and they can be unavoidable) the ability to sprint the hell out of there can be real important. If however, you can not outrun some feral 16 year olds with 100+ muggings under their belts you may have to turn around and deal. Better to be somewhere short of your heart's red zone as the merriment begins. Crafty PS: Someone asked about the finger-- it happened in BJJ when someone's knee came down on the finger in an instant when it was on the floor something like a fingertip on a guitar fretboard. The tendon on the top of the last joint of the middle finger was snapped from the shear force. I can bend it, but I can't straighten it. Its in a special splint to keep the joint straight for the next 2 months in the vague hope that perhaps the tendon will reconnect. The surgeon told me not to bother with surgery. Its no big thing-- gripping (and fighting) is unaffected. ------------------------------ From: "Jon Howard" Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 10:16:19 -0000 Subject: eskrima: The Rogues gallery - no makeup allowed 8-) Hi there. Many thanks to the first batch of people who signed up to be immortalised in the eskrima digest rogues gallery - especially Tuhon Bill and Pat Davis for showing their true colours (and their faces). Stay tuned - The first pages will be up in the next couple of days... Special thanks go to the person who informed me that rogues was spelt "ogu" as opposed to my dislexyic blunder "oug" - apparently some people wanted to be included in the rouge gallery, sorry folks no make up allowed 8-) Anyway I've fixed the blunder gallery submissions can now be sent to either rogues@techdojo.co.uk OR rouges@techdojo.co.uk (maybe the latter will be used by the roaring girls *grin*) Thats all for now Jon... ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 08:17:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: NJ Hello from New Jersey. Ray ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #118 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.