From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #205 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Sat, 29 April 2000 Vol 07 : Num 205 In this issue: [none] eskrima: spam eskrima: Re: stick length, etc. eskrima: Re: blocks and John Wayne eskrima: Re: tag, you're dead! eskrima: Re: size, grappling, etc. eskrima: Tacosa Serrada Eskrima update - Mai 2000 eskrima: Re: Size, Length etc. eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #202 Re: eskrima: Re: tag, you're dead! Re: eskrima: Re: size, grappling, etc. Re: eskrima: Re: stick length, etc. [none] ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, the Martial Arts Resource, Inayan Eskrima Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 19:19:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 19:26:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: spam Sorry for the spam from Moratalla@ij.net. Ray ------------------------------ From: "Jerry Bikendova" Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 03:54:14 GMT Subject: eskrima: Re: stick length, etc. "From: Steve Klement Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 06:16:40 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Re: Arlan's big stick "You mean in all your doggy fights you never encountered even one good Serrada player?" You may have started this line of questioning in a less than perfect manner. "Doggy" connotes a certain disdain, and no one said anything about good people, only preferred ranges. As for the rest of the post, I have to agree with Arlan. With an impact weapon, shorter almost always equals more ease in clinching. A note about range: TKD works best against TKD, judo against judo, boxing against boxing, and I would say the same of Serrada and certain other styles of FMA. The common denominator is range, or, more specifically, both players' interest in maintaining a similar range. Both TKD players want to kick each other and thus maintain a range favorable for such techniques. The big judo throws are seldom seen in BJJ tourneys because the players often do not maintain the upright stance and distance of judo players. A bad boxer could survive many rounds against a good one IF all he wanted to do was defend and clinch. As soon as he maintained the distance to attack, he would begin getting taken apart. For the above reasons, Serrada would tend not to work in an environment where it seems the intelligent fighters want to be either at the end of a 30" stick or on the ground. The fraction of a second it would take to pass through the range the Serrada player hoped to maintain would seldom be enough to end a fight against an agressive and well-trained opponent. Jerry ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Jerry Bikendova" Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 04:19:04 GMT Subject: eskrima: Re: blocks and John Wayne "You say that if you "have six inches reach on the other guy, I'll make him pay." All I can say to that is I'll gladly give you twelve but it won't help. For the weapon to hurt me it has to hit me and to hit me it has to be in my blocking range. I don't care if it's the end, middle or base of your stick, as soon as I block it I will get the same result." In a John Wayne movie someone would have remarked, "Them's mighty big words for a one-eyed fat man." Here I will reply that they are mighty big before having made the trip out to Hermosa Beach, or New Mexico for that matter. Your original question about Serrada players in "doggy fights" and your latest 12 inches could all be answered in one visit to either laboratory. I hope I am not being overly aggressive here, but I believe the beauty of activities like DBMA and BBJ--despite their obvious limitations as pointed out by Rocky and others and always acknowledged by the intelligent practioners themselves--lies in their ability to move beyond near meaningless speculation of who would block what using how long, etc. Just go do it, then either keep talking or apologize for past hubris and ignorance as the results demand. Jerry ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Jerry Bikendova" Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 04:26:50 GMT Subject: eskrima: Re: tag, you're dead! "When the man struck at GM Cabales he blocked and then struck at the mans head, when the man blocked with his shield GM Cabales then struck at the mans knee he then pulled the shield open with the butt of his weapon and flip hit the man. He then said 'your done, you are dead'. All this happened while Angel was smoking a cigarette - he never lost his ash. Hope this all helps! Steve Klement" An entertaining story. Sort of like the death touch. But what happens when the guy you tell is dead decides to be alive and perhaps tackles you and starts punching just to prove his version of reality can compete with yours? Jerry ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Jerry Bikendova" Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 04:34:53 GMT Subject: eskrima: Re: size, grappling, etc. "In a life or death street confrontation with a big guy who chooses to take me to the ground it would not be difficult to break his thumbs/fingers, take out his eyes, crush his throat, or grab his boys and do my best to cast them aside. Regardless of his size, these targets will be there for me if we are grappling. I agree that in sports size is a factor, but with the absence of rules there are a great many equalizers. The only dirty fight is the one you lose. Regards, Tom Skoglind" We have been over this before. Being a good grappler is the way to survive/win in a grappling situation. If you are mounted and being punched let me assure you that your survival instincts will have your hands covering your face and not probing your opponent's private parts. And, as I and others have written before, if you do stick your thumb in someone's eye chances are he won't die. Chances also are, you being on the bottom and dominated, he will retaliate with a new level of force to which you have unwisely escalated. Jerry ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: tom@serrada.de Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 14:44:49 +0200 (CEST) Subject: eskrima: Tacosa Serrada Eskrima update - Mai 2000 Greetings to all, please note that the Mai update of the Tacosa Serrada Eskrima homepage is on the web. On Master Jimmy Tacosa's pages you will find a new section about the Art of Tacosa- and Cabales Serrada Eskrima. Please check also our most up-to-date link page to other FMA related pages. For those of you interested in Serrada Eskrima, don't miss our extensive video clips section. peace, tom - -- The Art of Tacosa Serrada Eskrima http://www.serrada.de/ ------------------------------ From: "Branwen Thomas" Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 10:25:18 -0230 Subject: eskrima: Re: Size, Length etc. In eskrima, as in life, it is the wielder of the tool/weapon who will determine how well it is used. Size is only a limitation if you think it is. The more perceptive and creative the brain in control, the better the results. Being accustomed to a large stick, for example, one may slack off and neglect other important areas, simply because one thinks that a big stick is enough. Some prefer a longer stick, some prefer shorter, but ultimately, should we not know what to do with whatever falls to hand? The principles remain the same, even if the size or length vary. Obviously the tool itself is never the only focus; mental preparation, commitment to the outcome, and knowledge of complementary principles and techniques, and a general knowledge of "opponent/training partner" are all factors in the ultimate achievement of the goal. ;) jocelyne - Hardcore Girl Roaring Girl * Purveyor Of Fine Books * Beater Of Bodhrans * Smiter Of The Wicked * * Owned By Angus, Most Elegant And Pleasing Of Cats * ------------------------------ From: "arlan and angel sanford" Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 07:09:36 -0600 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #202 >The attack is so very important but if you can't block my strike than it's >nothing more than caveman style and hopefully your head is harder than my >stick/sword. You're sort of making the assumption here that your hits can't be blocked or evaded. >You say that if you "have six inches reach on the other guy, I'll >make him pay." All I can say to that is I'll gladly give you twelve but it >won't help. For the weapon to hurt me it has to hit me and to hit me it has >to be in my blocking range. I don't care if it's the end, middle or base of >your stick, as soon as I block it I will get the same result. Once again, your making assumptions, this time that you can't be hit and that you will be able to block everything that comes your way. I think both of these are false assumptions, whatever size stick is used. I've based my thoughts on stick length on my personal preference based on several hundred fights. I've received several e-mails from others, both pro and con, and all seem to be based on personal experience, and so I respect their thoughts. However, when someone makes sweeping statements about how they do this and they do that, I have to figure they may have a good background in training, but not fighting. >Now if all things being equal mean neither my opponent nor I do any blocks >then by all means I will meet him in the circle and he can have a long stick >if he wants but by gosh I will have a staff. Blocking and closing the gap is >what makes some styles such as Serrada possible to win against the longer >weapons. Are you saying you want the longer weapon? Arlan ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 7:37:43 PDT Subject: Re: eskrima: Re: tag, you're dead! > An entertaining story. Sort of like the death touch. But what happens when > the guy you tell is dead decides to be alive and perhaps tackles > you and starts punching just to prove his version of reality can compete > with yours? As an FMA, remember that Serrada is a blade art. There was to be a Masters tourny in the RP some years ago, to be fought with sticks. I recall that Tatang Ilustrisimo {rip} couldn't understand why a Kali/Eskrima tourny would use anything but a blade. To the old timers, or most of them, the stick was just a training tool, not their weapon of choice. So I see at least two types of FMA now common, those which are stick based and those which are blade based. Yes, both can use the other's primary weapon, but IMHO a stick art employing a blade will not be as effective as a blade art employing a blade. And vice versa. I personally take FMA to learn how to use a blade. Angel was first and foremost a blade man. Angel quickly demoed to the SCA guy that in a real fight, a blade fight, he had just put him out of commission. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com A P.S., in all fairness, in the story of Angel and the SCA fighter, I believe that one part was left out. Supposedly the SCA fighter first took on a Master of the Largo style and he soundly defeated that Master. I suspect this was a case of two long range style fighters coming together w/one having a much longer weapon. In which case the Master w/now the shorter long weapon should probably have switched to a short range style given that his weapon was now not a long range weapon. Now Angel was perhaps in the area at the time, I don't know if he was or not, to observe the SCA fighter move and use his weapon. If he did get a chance to observe the SCA fighter, then Angel would have had an advantage during their encounter. ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 7:41:05 PDT Subject: Re: eskrima: Re: size, grappling, etc. > We have been over this before. Being a good grappler is the way to > survive/win in a grappling situation. If you are mounted and being punched > let me assure you that your survival instincts will have your hands covering > your face and not probing your opponent's private parts. Ummm, not so sure. At least not to someone that has been hit in the face before. > And, as I and others have written before, if you do stick your thumb in > someone's eye chances are he won't die. Chances also are, you being on the > bottom and dominated, he will retaliate with a new level of force to which > you have unwisely escalated. Have you seen how someone really does react when their eyeball is down on their cheek? They do not retaliate with a new level of force, the fight is over and they are looking for their mommy or at least the nearest emergency room. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 7:54:56 PDT Subject: Re: eskrima: Re: stick length, etc. > A note about range: TKD works best against TKD, judo against judo, boxing > against boxing, and I would say the same of Serrada and certain other styles > of FMA. The common denominator is range, or, more specifically, both > players' interest in maintaining a similar range. Both TKD players want to > kick each other and thus maintain a range favorable for such techniques. The > big judo throws are seldom seen in BJJ tourneys because the players often do > not maintain the upright stance and distance of judo players. A bad boxer > could survive many rounds against a good one IF all he wanted to do was > defend and clinch. As soon as he maintained the distance to attack, he would > begin getting taken apart. > > For the above reasons, Serrada would tend not to work in an environment > where it seems the intelligent fighters want to be either at the end of a > 30" stick or on the ground. The fraction of a second it would take to pass > through the range the Serrada player hoped to maintain would seldom be > enough to end a fight against an agressive and well-trained opponent. For those that are more into sport, this is probably true. Football players don't usually try to play using the rules of basketball. But as martial artists we don't play by rules. We should train to be able to use our TKD to defeat an Eskrimador. We should train to use our Eskrima to defeat a Taekwondoin. We should train to use our Larga style to defeat Serrada man. And we should train to use our Serrada to defeat an Largo man. We explore all the variations. We do not just play the sport of Serrada against Serrada or Dequerdas against Dequerdas or Larga against Larga or rasslin against rasslin. One style is not the King and neither is one fighter (except maybe on one particular day). Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 08:05:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #205 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.