From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #208 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Sun, 30 April 2000 Vol 07 : Num 208 In this issue: eskrima: Re: SCA vs MA eskrima: Re-Kims post eskrima: FMAMW eskrima: Sparring questions eskrima: Re:Mount eskrima: Re: Arlan's response eskrima: Re: Jerry's comments #1 eskrima: Re: Jerry's comments #2 [none] ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, the Martial Arts Resource, Inayan Eskrima Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Casto Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 13:26:08 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Re: SCA vs MA Marlo Brown wrote: << Although I believe most of the SCA vs Martial Artist tales are apocryphal, this one has a ring of truth to it. >> Yes, I've seen both sides of this one. I was in the SCA for several years. I never fought though because I knew that with my background I would end up disqualified (never cared much for their rules). However, I was friends with a lot of the fighters ... and I have an immense amount of respect for the good ones. They are very good within the confines of their game ... and the ones I have seen who took up training in MA usually did fairly well. However, I used to hear a lot of the SCA fighters make disparaging comments about martial artists. While talking to one of the fighters (one who I respected) one night, he said something that I found pretty humorous (and enlightening). He said, "You know, the only SCA fighters who talk down about martial arts are the ones who haven't trained in martial arts ... and they're usually the ones who win their matches by luck instead of skill. The majority of the top ranked SCA fighters have some martial arts background." Most of the ones I talked to with MA background had dan ranks in Kendo or had done some fencing. A few I talked to had trained in Karate or Judo. I even met one who had done some FMA/IMA. Just an interesting tangent :-) Regards, Mike - -- . . . the voice of the Great Spirit is heard in the twittering of birds, the rippling of mighty waters, and the sweet breathing of flowers. If this is Paganism, then at present, at least, I am a Pagan. -- Gertrude Simmons Bonnin [Dakota Sioux] _____________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ------------------------------ From: Rocky Pasiwk Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 15:35:07 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Re-Kims post Kim Wrote: > Uh, Rocky, I did, a couple of posts back...I stated that it is a > misconception on most people's part to think that we Serrada players use > thin, wispy sticks, when in fact we use heavy, dense rattan, and hardwoods > such as kamagong, bahi, and ebony, in every day training. > OPPSY!! Rock ------------------------------ From: Sidney525@aol.com Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 15:02:58 EDT Subject: eskrima: FMAMW I finally put out the first issue of the newsletter FMAMW (Filipino Martial Artists of the Mid-West). Those of you on the FMAMW network should have recieved it already. If anyone else wants a complimentary issue, just e-mail me with a street address. The newsletter itself is a little rougher than I would like it, but like anything else it will improve with time. Sid Filipino Kali-Eskrima Academy of Chicago/Defenser Method ------------------------------ From: Sidney525@aol.com Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 15:06:49 EDT Subject: eskrima: Sparring questions A couple questions I had on sparring for people on the digest? By sparring I mean by whatever method, empty hands, double stick, pads, no pads, whatever. First- How often do you do it at your school? Is it every session, every week, once a month... Also, how important do you think it is? Thanks Sid ------------------------------ From: Kilap@aol.com Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 15:50:12 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re:Mount Jerry writes: << .... having your head pinned to the concrete/asphalt/dirt with no place to go and punches literally raining down on you are qualitatively different. We are not talking about a situation where you can roll with the punches, use evasive footwork, etc. It is cover your head or have it pounded. >> Sitting up in the mount high mount or whatever is a unstable position, the longer one stays sitting up the more likely I think you're going to lose the position. Just my 2 centavos, Travis ------------------------------ From: Steve Klement Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 17:35:06 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Re: Arlan's response I made the statement (assumption) based on the premise that your style might not have a "focus" on blocking. If it did I thought you would have more respect that any weapon (whatever size) could perform a block and get to the inside (if that was the goal). Therefore size is not of great importance. What I was trying to say is "if" your style is mainly focused on attacking without a strong foundation in blocking than we are doing nothing but trading blows and playing in a toughman contest with sticks. Everyone that knows me can tell you I have tested my art in reality situations. It is after-all my responsibility to have done so as an Inayan Instructor. I do have a good background in training in Suro Mike Inay's art. I also have a pretty good experience in what you call fighting and what I call sport. And last but not least I have a little experience in actual fighting and controlling fights. Toward the last of my post to you I was trying to say that if both parties agree not to block then - yes - I do want the longer weapon. If I can block then I prefer a shorter weapon though I am adept at the longer as well. By the way, I have a deep respect for all the ranges and styles and would never assume I have an advantage over a long weapon stylist just because I feel more comfortable with the shorter weapon. Thanks! - -- Steve Klement (865) 988-7599 Inayan School of Eskrima - TN. inayan@mindspring.com www.shoponthenet.com/Inayan > From: "arlan and angel sanford" > Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 07:09:36 -0600 > Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #202 > >> The attack is so very important but if you can't block my strike than it's >> nothing more than caveman style and hopefully your head is harder than my >> stick/sword. > > You're sort of making the assumption here that your hits can't be blocked or > evaded. > >> You say that if you "have six inches reach on the other guy, I'll >> make him pay." All I can say to that is I'll gladly give you twelve but it >> won't help. For the weapon to hurt me it has to hit me and to hit me it has >> to be in my blocking range. I don't care if it's the end, middle or base of >> your stick, as soon as I block it I will get the same result. > > Once again, your making assumptions, this time that you can't be hit and > that you will be able to block everything that comes your way. I think both > of these are false assumptions, whatever size stick is used. I've based my > thoughts on stick length on my personal preference based on several hundred > fights. I've received several e-mails from others, both pro and con, and all > seem to be based on personal experience, and so I respect their thoughts. > However, when someone makes sweeping statements about how they do this and > they do that, I have to figure they may have a good background in training, > but not fighting. > >> Now if all things being equal mean neither my opponent nor I do any blocks >> then by all means I will meet him in the circle and he can have a long > stick >> if he wants but by gosh I will have a staff. Blocking and closing the gap > is >> what makes some styles such as Serrada possible to win against the longer >> weapons. > > Are you saying you want the longer weapon? > > Arlan ------------------------------ From: Steve Klement Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 17:35:19 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Re: Jerry's comments #1 Jerry - First of all, no insult was implied or made to Mr. Sanford or any of the dog brothers for that matter. That I know of and acknowledge his continued presence in "the circle of enlightenment" is in itself a sign of respect from me. I trust that's the way it was taken by Arlan as well. As far as the rest of this post goes I honestly have to say that if a person were really to believe that TKD only works best against TKD and Serrada against Serrada (or whatever style/range) than that person must not have researched the art deep enough. For example, as I have stated before, in the Inayan System of Eskrima (many other styles/systems do the same thing) we constantly fine tune Largo by attacking it with Serrada and so on and so on. We study several styles and we constantly pit them against each-other to find the power and/or weakness of the art/range. It is in fact a never ending research. - -- Steve Klement (865) 988-7599 Inayan School of Eskrima - TN. inayan@mindspring.com www.shoponthenet.com/Inayan > From: "Jerry Bikendova" > Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 03:54:14 GMT > Subject: eskrima: Re: stick length, etc. > > "From: Steve Klement > Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 06:16:40 -0400 > Subject: eskrima: Re: Arlan's big stick > > "You mean in all your doggy fights you never encountered even one good > Serrada player?" > > You may have started this line of questioning in a less than perfect manner. > "Doggy" connotes a certain disdain, and no one said anything about good > people, only preferred ranges. > > As for the rest of the post, I have to agree with Arlan. With an impact > weapon, shorter almost always equals more ease in clinching. > > A note about range: TKD works best against TKD, judo against judo, boxing > against boxing, and I would say the same of Serrada and certain other styles > of FMA. The common denominator is range, or, more specifically, both > players' interest in maintaining a similar range. Both TKD players want to > kick each other and thus maintain a range favorable for such techniques. The > big judo throws are seldom seen in BJJ tourneys because the players often do > not maintain the upright stance and distance of judo players. A bad boxer > could survive many rounds against a good one IF all he wanted to do was > defend and clinch. As soon as he maintained the distance to attack, he would > begin getting taken apart. > > For the above reasons, Serrada would tend not to work in an environment > where it seems the intelligent fighters want to be either at the end of a > 30" stick or on the ground. The fraction of a second it would take to pass > through the range the Serrada player hoped to maintain would seldom be > enough to end a fight against an agressive and well-trained opponent. > > Jerry ------------------------------ From: Steve Klement Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 17:35:26 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Re: Jerry's comments #2 Jerry - After some reflection, I see these words of mine are indeed mighty big as you say. So in response to you I will say - I stand by them. I do so because of the fact that I have and do research these issues deeply and on a regular basis. With and without padding. With and without weapon. Range against range. For you to assume I haven't because I have never been to a dog brothers meeting is a very immature assumption on your part. As a matter of fact this whole thing has come full circle now. I originally posted in response to Mr. Sanford's comment that "If I'm fighting somebody who is using a shorter stick, I really feel they are at a disadvantage. I certainly have more respect for a bigger stick, the shorter the stick, the less concerned I am." I mainly wanted to say to this - NEVER assume someone is at a disadvantage because of the kind or size of weapon someone uses or the style of fighting they use as well. Any of these assumptions including the one you make can be dangerous to one's health. I have been in many a "laboratory" (as you say). I have been both test rat and scientist as the situation demanded. So as I said before there is no need to "move beyond near meaningless speculation of who would block what using how long, etc." because we were already there! - -- Steve Klement (865) 988-7599 Inayan School of Eskrima - TN. inayan@mindspring.com www.shoponthenet.com/Inayan > From: "Jerry Bikendova" > Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 04:19:04 GMT > Subject: eskrima: Re: blocks and John Wayne > > "You say that if you "have six inches reach on the other guy, I'll > make him pay." All I can say to that is I'll gladly give you twelve but it > won't help. For the weapon to hurt me it has to hit me and to hit me it has > to be in my blocking range. I don't care if it's the end, middle or base of > your stick, as soon as I block it I will get the same result." > > In a John Wayne movie someone would have remarked, "Them's mighty big words > for a one-eyed fat man." Here I will reply that they are mighty big before > having made the trip out to Hermosa Beach, or New Mexico for that matter. > Your original question about Serrada players in "doggy fights" and your > latest 12 inches could all be answered in one visit to either laboratory. > > I hope I am not being overly aggressive here, but I believe the beauty of > activities like DBMA and BBJ--despite their obvious limitations as pointed > out by Rocky and others and always acknowledged by the intelligent > practioners themselves--lies in their ability to move beyond near > meaningless speculation of who would block what using how long, etc. Just go > do it, then either keep talking or apologize for past hubris and ignorance > as the results demand. > > Jerry ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 15:58:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #208 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. 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