From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #243 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Mon, 15 May 2000 Vol 07 : Num 243 In this issue: eskrima: time to end the thread eskrima: re Million moms... eskrima: AW: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #241 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #242 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #242 eskrima: Bigger guns eskrima: walls coming down Re: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #242 eskrima: Re: Masaad Ayoob [none] ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, the Martial Arts Resource, Inayan Eskrima Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 07:49:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: time to end the thread Ok folks, I started this thread on freedom and rights, now it is time to wind it down. Yes, I am one that was converted by reviewing the facts. After moving from the pro-gun to the anti-gun side in my college days, I finally took the time to read Wright-Rossi, Kleck, etc. Then later Lott. Yes, there are studies on the 'other side', but read all with a eye on their experimental and statistical methods. Some are believable, others are not. Re the 2nd, read the comments and the writings of the authors after they came out of the Convention. Read the early drafts of the Bill of Rights before the editor's pen came into play, read the constitutions of the states that they used for patterns. There is NO question what they meant and nothing has served us better over these 200+ years. And how does this apply to those in other countries? If your news coverage is like ours, you too have been brainwashed as to the facts about this debate in the US. You need to understand, just as we in the US need to understand the situation in Europe and elsewhere. Why, just the other day I was watching a Brit produced documentary about 'the gun problem' in the US. All he wanted to do was compare the UK to the US. Perhaps if he really understood the situation that documentary would have been produced with a very different slant. Knowledge is power! You owe it to yourself to read the literature on BOTH sides of this issue with a critical eye. Please do that. Ray ------------------------------ From: "Jon Howard" Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 15:44:09 +0100 Subject: eskrima: re Million moms... Hi there, I can't, don't and won't claim to be an expert on this subject but FWIW I listened in disgust to yet another news item over the weekend that yet another person in Birmingham (UK) had been shot dead... This is IN a country that has effectively BANNED and made ILLEGAL all forms of handguns and most forms of firearms - maybe someone just forgot to tell the bad guys.... Fortunately my only source of comfort in this matter is that the majority of people involved in these incidents are not totally inocent - old arguments, revenge attacks, drug related etc etc etc... Belive me my heart really goes out to the parents of the children murdered by reckless people both in the UK, USA and elsewhere - but's that what they were - MURDERED! The method of delivery doesn't matter - so far we've had psychos going ape with guns, psychos going ape with knifes and machetes, even psychos going ape and ploughing a car into a group of people (although granted this was several years ago). How do we or can we legislate or protect ourselves from the (granted - very small) element of society that has a burning desire to do us harm The gun is a tool, it is a souless item - education is the key! How many parents leave their car keys lying about or the kitchen door open, or the tool shed unlocked ???? I have to say that I admire the determination of a million moms to protect their children but I feel their efforts are misguided and misdirected - but this a typical knee jerk reaction to a complex situation (usually fueled by people with their own political aims) Thanks for listening Jon... ------------------------------ From: ptbernd@gmx.de Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 16:59:26 +0200 Subject: eskrima: AW: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #241 Hi there again! > Gun control IS the loss of freedom. But, why??? Be honest, how many people are living in our world feeling free without having any gun?!? E.g. I do - I feel free without any gun. And, I feel much more relaxed knowing that most of the Germans do not have guns either. By the way - it is possible to get guns legally here in Germany, one just need to prove that he/she has a need for and that he/she is ok!!! > The loss of the > Freedom to= > =20 > through off any Goverment that insist on impossing terany and undue=20 > oppression upon the "people". Of course, it is easier for the people to revolt and set up a revolution - fighting for freedom with a gun in their hands, but I would like to mention for the second time the revolution and reunion of the DDR - without any guns this time, and therefore nobody died. Bernd Giller, Germany ptbernd@gmx.de ------------------------------ From: abanico-video-knuettel@t-online.de (Dieter =?iso-8859-1?Q?Kn=FCttel?=) Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 17:06:42 +0200 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #242 OK forks, I am sorry having started the gun thread. I will not continue to contribute to that topic. Change of topic: I got a short mpeg that shows a back kick. It is about 800 kb big an it is WELLLLLL worth having a look at. I showed it to Suro Mike Inay and we had a look at this kick for about 10 times and all we could think of was ouch, that hurts. If anybody wants to have it, send me a mail and I will mail it to you. But please send a comment about it. I have send it to Ray. What´s your comment on that kick? Dieter - -- Dieter Knüttel ABANICO Video Productions E-Mail: dk@abanico.de Internet: http://www.abanico.de European Modern Arnis Representative Internet: http://www.modern-arnis.de ------------------------------ From: jester@jdweb.com Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 15:00:45 GMT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #242 Ludwig wrote: >If you forbid weapons, on >the short run you are taking them away from the good guys while the bad guys >still will have them. But ON THE LONG RUN there will be less weapons >factories (because they can't sell them), less shops from which to steal them, >less >istributors, and in the whole much less availability of firearms even for >the bad guys. If no shop or factory is near, you have to import weapons, i.e. >smuggle them over the border, which is a task only big organizations can >manage. So, there will be fewer guns overall but the percentage of ownership swings more heavily toward those willing to break the law to get them? I'm not sure I'd like THAT trend... >And there is a big advantage in being mugged with a knife: Knifes are >more controllable, so you are more likely to only get cut instead of getting >shot dead, you can run away, you can disarm the attacker, etc. etc. etc. "ONLY get cut"? That's pretty funny, particularly in this forum. I think you are underestimating the potential damage from bladed attacks, and overestimating that from firearms. Movies notwithstanding, people don't usually just drop over dead from a handgun wound. >All this "defend yourself with a gun" ist crap. Firearms are OFFENSIVE >weapons. Unless with a stick or sword, you CANNOT BLOCK an incoming attack >with a gun. That means, if firearms are brought into play, you are going to >get shot regardless if you carry a gun or not. So the only way to reduce >chances of getting shot is to reduce the amount of guns in the population ..hmm... Weapons are not innately offensive OR defensive. One can't reliably block a decent attack from a knife or sword either. Bad guy pulls a blade, if you have time, YOU pull a blade. He either runs away or attacks. If he attacks, you try to stop him, which, unless you're a fool, means *cutting to stop*. Or, bad guy threatens, you pull a blade. He runs away. The mechanics of these situations don't vary greatly from similar ones involving firearms. jester ------------------------------ From: Roan Kalani Grimm Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 09:29:25 -0600 Subject: eskrima: Bigger guns > To Crafty: My sympathies for your family, but I don't think it would > have changed anything if the Jews had weapons. The Nazis would have come with > BIGGER weapons and done them anyway. That's exactly what happened in Warsaw. > That is also what happens in most ditatorial governed countries. As you all > said: The fist thing an dictator does, is TAKE AWAY the weapons from the > citizens. So they had them, and they got taken away ;-). > > Since so many of you brought the Nazis in the play, let's do a little > thought experiment: Let's suppose in your country a totalitarian government > arises and start collecting your weapons. A squadron of soldiers comes to your > home and demands your weapons. If your answer is in the vein of "they will > have to take it from my cold, dead fingers", they simply shoot you, TAKE it > away from the cold dead fingers, and go on to the next house. End of scenario. > You are dead and you still have a dictator. ;-) > Well, with all due respect, in Vietnam, the French and Americans both had bigger guns and still got their/our asses handed to them/us. (No disrespect to any Vietnam veterans, you all have my sincerest thanks...hell, ALL the veterans out there have my sincerest thanks! BTW, I'm a former jarhead!! ;-) And as to civil disobedience, it's all a question of time and PLACE. Ghandi would not have been successful as a Jew in the Third Reich. Hell, look at Tiannenman (sp?) Square. And if a squad of soldiers comes to my house and I resist, they shoot me dead. Yeah, no argument there. But if a squad of soldiers comes to my neighborhood and the neighborhood resists, they get whacked. Keep in mind that urban warfare is the most dangerous warfare around. There is not enough military strength in the world to securely occupy even Los Angeles if all the residents fought back with firearms. Okay, I'm done. Peace, respect and an open mind. Aloha, Kalani "We must remember that one man is much the same as another, and that he is best is he who is trained in the severest school." --Thucydides P.S. Happy Peace Officers Day, and my thanks and sympathies for all current, former and fallen peace officers throughout the world!! ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 9:05:54 PDT Subject: eskrima: walls coming down > Of course, it is easier for the people to revolt and set up a revolution - > fighting for freedom with a gun in their hands, but I would like to mention > for the second time the revolution and reunion of the DDR - without any guns > this time, and therefore nobody died. Well, actually it was 'gun' related, but big guns. :) The economy of the USSR could not keep up with the arms race and the wall came down. In that case, 'the people' had little to do with it. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 9:06:18 PDT Subject: Re: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #242 > I have send it to Ray. What´s your comment on that kick? Haven't seen it, received it, yet.?.?. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: AnimalMac@aol.com Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 11:52:56 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Masaad Ayoob In a message dated 5/15/00 8:32:25 AM Mountain Daylight Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Massad Ayoob is supposed to be coming to Hawaii in June. I was wondering if anyone here has met him and can give a brief description of the man. Thanks in advance. >> Listen to the man, he knows of what he speaks. Mas is a friend and respected instructor -- maybe not among the politically correct, but among those who spend time out in the field his words carry wisdom and weight. If you are considering taking his Judicious Use of Lethal Force seminar I applaude you and say it is money well spent as it will go miles for indemifying you against both criminal and civil charges if you ever have to defend yourself ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 09:01:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #243 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. 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