From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #244 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Mon, 15 May 2000 Vol 07 : Num 244 In this issue: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #242 eskrima: RE: Back kick Re: eskrima: Message from Maha Guro Uddin eskrima: A Research Project - need the names eskrima: AAbortion eskrima: Re: "defend yourself with a gun" eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #243 eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #243 eskrima: parting gun comments eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #243 [none] ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, the Martial Arts Resource, Inayan Eskrima Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ron Levy Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 09:22:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #242 > Second, my point was that the problem here isn't an > attack on the Second Amendment, [...] > [...] a failure > of gun owners to mend fences with the greatest victims > of gun-related crimes and to work with people to build > solutions that makes everyone happy. I'll try to be quick. :) You will find that the above has led in the past to what's called 'salami-slice politics.' One year, the pro-gun people make a compromise with the anti-gun people. They give up something, like greater-than-ten-round-clips. Hooray! The pro-gun people have worked together to make everyone happy. Next year, though, the anti-gun people want more. They want a fifteen-day waiting period for a background check (even though a background check is generally instantaneous). The pro-gun people work together to make everyone happy, and get it down to seven days. In the past, every time the pro-gun people 'work together to make everyone happy' they are really losing. A salami slice at a time is being taken away from them and they get nothing back. Nothing. > Finally I am disturbed by this code talk of armed > resistance to the USA. A wise man (one of those Founding Fathers we talk about in the US) once said, "America maintains its freedom on three boxes. The ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box." The order is important. First the political process. Second, the juidicial process (read up on the Fully Informed Jury Amendment and the rights of juries in the US sometime and you might not worry about guns any more). And only when those have failed, the cartridge box. We have a long way to go before we get to the cartridge box, but don't fault us for using every tool in the first two boxes so we never reach the third. - -Ron Levy ------------------------------ From: "Wallace, John" Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 10:23:07 -0700 Subject: eskrima: RE: Back kick Ouch. I wonder if they make shoes like that in my size ;) - -JW - ------------------ Change of topic: I got a short mpeg that shows a back kick. It is about = 800 kb big an it is WELLLLLL worth having a look at. I showed it to Suro = Mike Inay and we had a look at this kick for about 10 times and all we could think of was ouch, that hurts. If anybody wants to have it, send me a mail and I will mail it to you. = But please send a comment about it. I have send it to Ray. What=B4s your comment on that kick? Dieter - - -- E-Mail: dk@abanico.de ------------------------------ From: "Ernest Westbrook" Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 17:54:10 GMT Subject: Re: eskrima: Message from Maha Guro Uddin IESA@goplay.com: wrote, >Dear Members, > >First of all, Sultan wants to personally thank Ray Terry for running >the digest after all these years. Nice touch, good policy to follow, and now if we can get All the members of this digest to refer to Mr. Uddin as 'Mr', 'Master' or "'Sultan', since he has chosen to change his name to conform to his religious beliefs, that would good a long ways toward recipricating his polite and respectful response as report by the above quoted writer. >Secondly, to clarify all that's been going on, I myself, and the rest >of the instructors in IESA are the ones who address him with title, >out of respect for what he's done in the art and in the community. >He was >quite surprised, knowing that his titles were discussed on the >digest. He told me directly that he does not mention his titles at >all unless required to do so to qualify himself, either at a lecture >or during a workshop. When I told him that his credentials and his >teachers were mentioned in public, he said that you should all delete >those records since he didn't want anyone to know his business. He >said he was too busy to worry about titles. This is a good example of students carrrying on matters without their instructors knowledge and the troubles that can develop from that behavior. Titles are fun to have and play with in some cases, but were they meant to used publicly in every venue? Apparently not in this case! >Thirdly, he suggested that instead of mincing titles and words, we >should all get together as a community, and also as individuals, and >help someone in the community. Instead of "computer-banging", we >should stop kids from gang-banging on the streets. Instead of >pointing fingers, we should point to someone who needs help and help >them out. From the posts I had forwarded, he said if we, including >myself, had directed that energy to something positive instead of >disecting words, we could've accomplished alot. A well intended piece of advice - but the kids in my little 'burg' are not gang banging, on the other hand, there are other problems that need addressing and your instructor is correct - we all need to take care of our own business and make sure that our own houses are in order. If we took care of our own business, then the troubles that we are having in many communities could and would be resloved fro the most part. >He has no animosity towards anyone subscribed or un-subscribed to >this, or any other digests. He does his thing, Mark Wiley does his >thing, the Inayans do their thing, just like everyone else, and he >feels it's all good. As long as you have pure motives for teaching >and propagating the art, then he offers his help. If you have >personal motives, then he cannot. Good poit, however, the title issue is not so easily put away. >My previous posts were emotionally charged, to say the least. I >recall words like "veiled threats" in response to what I wrote. >Personally, I reacted the way I did not only to defend my teacher and >lineage, which all of you would do in that situation, but also >because I >have seen the passion and effort he puts into the art. Therefore, I put >alot into what I had to do to represent my school and >my teacher. It is good to believe in your instructor and the system that you are a member of, however, please think before you type and re-read before you send out a post or e-mail. To think before acting is a positive thing, especially, when what you are writing will be going to a newsgroup, digest or list. On the other hand, is the above statement meant to be an apology or a rationalization for the posted comments? I can't tell and it could be read either way. >As he said, Tatang opened his mind to the fact that all styles come >from one. Maha Guro Uddin has no opinions about any of the various >arts because of that fact, and because he holds rank in alot of >them. He's seen alot in the 30 years of unbroken study in the >Martial >Arts, so he doesn't trip on "styles" or titles. I can understand his philosophy and I do agree with his position that we do not need to get so exorcised over styles and systems. However, the bare naked truth is that too many students are following their instructors leads and putting down other players for being involved in a different system. That is the larger problem and one which can only be resolved on a person by person basis. Master Uddin, has done some things that some others have not and there is some jealousy/envy involved in the posts of some people with regard to the title issue. That is something that you need to keep in mind as you write your posts. >If you really have a need to know his credentials, he is open to >people coming by to talk with him. As he said, "Ask, and it shall be >given...seek and you shall find...knock and the door will be >opened.". >He encourages us to get together over some food and talk about the >arts. That way, all the knowledge and hard work of those warriors >before us won't go to waste amidst our quarrelling. He and many others are assuming that the warriors of the past did not quarrel and disagree. This is not likely, however, I agree that to the degree possible, people of good will must get together and share with one another, open doors, build bridges and establish networks that allow people to talk and discuss rather than argue and snipe at one another. Good luck in this effort. >Peace, > >Bob >IESA EBrook ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Ernest Westbrook" Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 18:08:05 GMT Subject: eskrima: A Research Project - need the names A friend asked me for some help with a research project and he is seeking the names of those people who have been awarded the title of "Datu" by Professor Remy Presas of the International Modern Arnis system. Please, just send me the names - I am not interested in starting a contoversy - just the names. Thanks, EBrook ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Bladewerks@aol.com Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 14:41:12 EDT Subject: eskrima: AAbortion Wwell hey everyone is still alive here on ED!! Hey can we start something about Abortion??/ Roe V Wade? Maybe Gay Rights or maybe even afirmitive action? Im sure we can tie them all in to FMA somehow. Barry a.k.a. Bible thumping,extreamist,right wing fundamentalist radical Come on smile:) ------------------------------ From: LIVEBLADES@aol.com Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 14:44:10 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: "defend yourself with a gun" In a message dated 05/15/2000 10:34:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: snip << And there is a big advantage in being mugged with a knife: Knifes are more controllable, so you are more likely to only get cut instead of getting shot dead, you can run away, you can disarm the attacker, etc. etc. etc. >> What do you mean by more controllable? Easier to control, for the muggie or mugger? Do you mean. You can't disarm someone who has a gun, and it is easier if he has a knife? <<< c) All this "defend yourself with a gun" ist crap. Firearms are OFFENSIVE weapons. Unless with a stick or sword, you CANNOT BLOCK an incoming attack with a gun. That means, if firearms are brought into play, you are going to get shot regardless if you carry a gun or not. So the only way to reduce chances of getting shot is to reduce the amount of guns in the population. >>> Do you mean to say that you can't defend yourself, with an offensive weapon ?? And are you implying that the best way to protect yourself is to BLOCK an incoming attack. How long can you block attacks? Do you block them so long that the attacker gets tired and walks away? Or at some time, do you attack him? You stated that : <<" Unless with a stick or sword, you CANNOT BLOCK an incoming attack with a gun. That means, if firearms are brought into play, you are going to get shot regardless if you carry a gun or not " >> Your logic is a little shaky it seems that you're imagining some kind of duel between just two people in the middle of a big open space with no one else around, and both people know the other is carrying a gun. And somehow someone says GO and they both shoot each other at the same time, and then fall backward. Then the credits roll. It seems to me that a gun is just another weapon, a tool to be used at the proper time and place. To be used when it affords the proper tactical advantage. It is no more and no less. I've seen people shot, it didn't look like fun, but it wasn't so bad. I've seen blade wounds and had a few myself they also weren't fun, but nothing is absolute. A gun isn't some magical weapon that kills all around them. I personally wish there weren't any guns, so all you, little, untrained people, would have less of a chance against me...LOL TAK "The river of death has no lid on it, there are ten thousand ways to enter" ------------------------------ From: Bladewerks@aol.com Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 15:01:20 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #243 <>Well, with all due respect, in Vietnam, the French and Americans both had bigger guns and still got their/our asses handed to them/us.<> Coming from family of vets I know this for a fact: We did not get our asses handed to us by Veitnam or the VC...We won practiclly every single major battle of signifagance with only a few exceptions.Our asses were handed to us by our own politicians up the chain of command. Roan,I do see the point you are making though and do agree with you on that point.I relize you ment it differantly.Gurilla warfare is an art unto itsself. Barry ------------------------------ From: Stuart Igarta Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 17:09:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #243 Massad Ayoob, is an ex-law enforcement officer, he has written several excellent books regarding tactics and training (handgun, shotgun, etc.). He also is a contributing editor to Combat Hanguns Magazine. Check out our website - http://www.fullcontacthi.com ........................................................ iWon.com http://www.iwon.com why wouldn't you? ........................................................ ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 14:35:10 -0700 Subject: eskrima: parting gun comments A Howl etc: If I may make my parting comments on the gun issue: > Of course, it is easier for the people to revolt and set up a revolution - > fighting for freedom with a gun in their hands, but I would like to mention > for the second time the revolution and reunion of the DDR - without any guns > this time, and therefore nobody died. > > > Bernd Giller, Germany > ptbernd@gmx.de Umm, may I suggest you are forgetting NATO, the United States and President Reagan? > > Since so many of you brought the Nazis in the play, let's do a little > > thought experiment: Let's suppose in your country a totalitarian government > > arises and start collecting your weapons. A squadron of soldiers comes to your > > home and demands your weapons. If your answer is in the vein of "they will > > have to take it from my cold, dead fingers", they simply shoot you, TAKE it > > away from the cold dead fingers, and go on to the next house. End of scenario. > > You are dead and you still have a dictator. ;-) > > > Well, with all due respect, in Vietnam, the French and Americans both > had bigger guns and still got their/our asses handed to them/us. (No > disrespect to any Vietnam veterans, you all have my sincerest > thanks...hell, ALL the veterans out there have my sincerest thanks! > BTW, I'm a former jarhead!! ;-) And as to civil disobedience, it's all > a question of time and PLACE. Ghandi would not have been successful as > a Jew in the Third Reich. Hell, look at Tiannenman (sp?) Square. And > if a squad of soldiers comes to my house and I resist, they shoot me > dead. Yeah, no argument there. But if a squad of soldiers comes to my > neighborhood and the neighborhood resists, they get whacked. Keep in > mind that urban warfare is the most dangerous warfare around. There is > not enough military strength in the world to securely occupy even Los > Angeles if all the residents fought back with firearms. > Okay, I'm done. Peace, respect and an open mind. > Aloha, Kalani If there is no registration, the dictator does not know to which homes to go. And Kalani's point about urban warfare is correct (as are his others) and indeed Los Angeles is an example. Only a few years ago in the Rodney King riots, the police ran away and major portions of Los Angeles went up in flames. I assure you that the guns that the police were worried about were overwhelmingly illegal. Noteworthy is what happened when the rioters went to the Korean neighborhood. The Koreans pulled out their guns and defended there livelihood very successfully. This is less than 10 years ago. In closing I'd like to make a couple of points: I very much understand and respect the emotion and values of those opposed to guns. It was the way I was raised. And perhaps history makes a difference. America was born of an armed people throwing out colonialists, and law came to the west in the form of posses, drawn up from the people supporting the sheriff. Germany was disarmed by Hitler, then by the Allies who defeated him and his supporters, and then defended by those same Allies who had vanquished him and his supporters. Switzerland has its history, and so forth. This is not a hostile comment directed at modern Germany and modern Germans. It is simply the truth. The behavior of my country in victory at the end of WW2 I believe to have been one of its finest hours-- look at the difference in results from the peace imposed by WW1 and that of WW2, which also allowed the victory over another brutal dictatorship in the Cold War. Just as you reject the deeds of your previous generations, I reject the passive response of mine. I trust that we share the desire to move forward together as friends. Indeed, I will be in Germany in a few weeks teaching a seminar and I look forward to it without ambivalence. I eat at a Palestinian restaurant in my neighborhood. I mentioned my ethnic background by way of shedding light on my assertion of having a substantial education in the matter of Hitler, (I know that there is a general impression that many Europeans have that Americans are often pretty ignorant in matters of European history and well, often it is quite correct) and to make as stark as possible the consequences that can happen when only the state has the guns. It applies equally well to Stalin, to Mao, to the victims of the Khymer Rouge and victims of hatred everywhere. I very much agree with Ray that the mass media has not been honest or accurate in its coverage of this issue. Their mind is made up and they do not want to be confused with facts. It is entirely too simple to impute a correlation with gun ownership and crime. Crime has declined dramatically in the US for the last 8 years or so as gun owndership has continued to rise. I would offer that people consider the possibility that the War on Drugs fueled and fuels most of the most horrendous stories of that have touched all of us emotionally as packs of fatherless young males have turf wars over profits unlike anything else they believe they can achieve in this life. And all of this is untouched by registering the guns of the American people. In contrast, the absolutely huge number of cases of citizens defending themselves correctly simply is not reported by the mass media. If you ever have a chance to read one of the NRA magazines (I receive the one about self-defense) there is a page in every issue towards the beginning that excerpts about 20 cases from sundry local newspapers around the country reporting cases of citizen self-defense. This is every month and these are just some of the ones they have room for. Yet you NEVER see them reported in the mass media and this is profoundly dishonest. I sincerely believe that many people, once exposed to ALL the facts, would change their minds about this issue, emotional as it is. If I believed that those who suggest this or that additional law and regulation would stop there, I probably would go along in a spirit of compromise. But as Ray has pointed out, we already have an extraordinary number of laws that have not worked very much at all. Even the 5 day waiting period to check for felons trying to buy guns that the liberals fought the NRA so bitterly over has been semi-meaningless. It is not a bad idea, but of the 10s of thousands of felons who have been caught trying to buy guns over the counter, (ie when they are rejected, they go black market) if I have my number correct, something like 5 ( yes 5) have faced legal consequences (such as revocation of parole etc). The NRA has consistently called for vigorous enforcement of laws against criminals using guns, but for reasons only the very cynical can seem to explain, this has not been the case. These laws are not enforced, and instead more laws are called for. I believe that if the liberals could clearly show that there was a reasonable point beyond which they would not go that compromise could be reached. Of course I could rant on, but enough. Last word to whoever wants it. Woof, Crafty Dog ------------------------------ From: "Scott Smith" Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 21:48:15 GMT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #243 I don't post alot but I read the posts everyday. I have not studied MA for long like everyone else, I have been into FMA for only 2 years but really enjoy it. The reason I am posting is on this gun topic that is older then I am (28 yrs). First off, I am from Canada so my opinion is from being raised there. As for protection, are you not supposed to keep them locked up and unloaded, with ammo in another room? If someone was breaking into your home would you have enough time to unlock, grab, move to the room with ammo, unlock the ammo, grab the ammo, load the weapon in time to use it? Personally I don't think so, but that is my opinion. Yes "bad" guys and thugs use guns, but they are also me likely to use it on someone reaching for a gun of thier own. My advice is know your home and suroundings and know things you my use as a weapon other then a gun...a lamp in your bedroom or livingroom, a chair in your kitchen or dining room, if you happen to be in the washroom (canadian for bathroom) I am sure you have some sort on spray, especially if you are or live with a female. (NO OFFENSE MEANT) Point is, there are alot of ways you can protect yourself or your home. And As for myself...my life is worth ALOT more then my TV set..I'll just find a door or window in the room i am in and let them have my TV. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 15:50:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #244 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.