From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #260 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Tues, 23 May 2000 Vol 07 : Num 260 In this issue: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #239 eskrima: Re: Full Contact or Not (from another post list) Re: eskrima: Ohio eskrima: Poor Taste eskrima: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #257 eskrima: Virtual Drillmaster update eskrima: Bustillo Seminar eskrima: RE: hand protection for sparring eskrima: RE: death points [none] ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, the Martial Arts Resource, Inayan Eskrima Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SReiter000@aol.com Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 10:37:17 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #239 In a message dated 5/14/00 6:06:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Mikal Keenan Date: 14 May 00 18:50:24 CDT Subject: eskrima: Majapahit Read a post which seemed to relate "Majapahit influence" to use/inclusion of Krabi Krabong in training. What's the link btwn the Malay empire of Maja pahit and the Krabi Krabong of Thailand? >> majaphit empire included - but not limited to -- the p.i., indonesia,malaysia,burma,madagascar, thailand(siam), easter island, cambodia/vietnam - cant think of any more off the top of my head - tuhon gaje and eddie joffery(sp) got together (and later asked guro i) to form a majaphit MA class/group that would teach and incorporate all the indiginous arts from the countries in the empire - there was so much inter mixing between the peoples that a lot of each's arts can be found in the arts the the others - such as silat in the p.i. - or thai like kicks in bersilat- ect. not to mention keeping the arts of south east asia alive and "kickin' " steve ------------------------------ From: Chad Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 15:46:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Re: Full Contact or Not (from another post list) ATTENTION:SUPER LONG POST-This is in no way an attempt to start a controversy of full contact or not. We have all been there and done that. So let's all just get along. BTW, I've really missed the digest. The following is a post on another FMA onelist that I subscribe to. I usually just delete it as they don't have the personality of the group we have here. Anyway, (Dog Brothers) caught my eye in the subj line and I read it. This is a copy of the reply I sent to it. Included is the origingal message I recieved as well as the message I sent. >>two arrows is the original poster. Person #1. >one arrow is the replier to Person #1. Person #2. no arrow is my reply, usually to Person #2. The post starts below the line. _____________________________________________________________________ I would like to make a few comments on this particular post because I do full contact sparring using only a light fencing mask. Once, I started using gloves, kneepads, elbowpads, and shoes, and a heavy fencing mask, but I have gotten better and took alot of that gear off. Please visit http://www.fullcontacthi.com for more information on full contact stickfighting in Hawaii. I will be making some reference in reply to Dog Brothers type of sparring. I am not a representative and do not speak for DB, DBMA, or DBMAA. Anyone wanting more info should go to http://www.dogbrothers.com . My point is that as MA we should not be putting down other groups for what they do or choose to not do. We should be learning together. If you can not learn somthing from me, move on, don't condemn. I you do not drink soda, will you try to condemn it and those who drink it. I owuld think that full contact sparring using minimal to no gear is far from MORALLY wrong, so what is the fuss. I have never heard a full contact fighter say that people who do not full contact fight are wimps or less of a martial artist. On that note, I would like to begin. In Response To; >>Going back to the history of FMA in the Philippines, the old masters >>earned >>their reputations in full contact stick battles or in real fights. >>> >>Please tell us who told you that sounding Exclusive Truth? >>I suggest it is a myth!.. many were led to believe ignorantly, >>naively or >>deliberately for profit, fame or pride. How did the old masters receive their reputation, than? I recall Tatang Ilustrissimo, Joe Mena, Angel Cabales, and my grandmother's cousin, Floro Villabrille telling stories of this. ================================= >>Therefore, if you wish to go back to the "old school", then it isn't >>difficult to figure out what you need to do. >What? Learn fma and get into real fights? I hope we are not forced into "real" fights. No matter how good one is, no one is perfect, and suprise as in the story you posted about the fight in Hawaii. I think the whole point was to try full contact sparring as a vehicle of progression so that one may have an idea of what it feels like to actually be in a dual. >To most that might be foolish, don't you think? for most would learn >martial arts so that they would learn to avoid fights or defend >themselves confidently, while you are preaching the complete opposite! And this is the exact reason why I do Full Contact sparring wearing only a light fencing mask, tank top, and shorts. No pads, no gloves, no shoes. That is why the full contact sparring is used. So that you may get a glimpse of what it is like to have someone really trying hit you with a real weapon. In the real situation, I do not "believe" that me techniques will work, rather I "know" that my techniques work. I know exactly what I am good at, and I know exactly what my weak points are. >How can letting the Dog Brothers "wail on your head every weekend" >bring >confidence into someone? Maybe one can learn how to defend against the wailings. >Do you really think this is smart? C'mon think about it and really >find where your logic is "let them wail on your head every weekend" >sounds like "let them make you a willing ginny pig! " to me ! ! ! I >won't be fooled with their guised, illogical, and barbaric reasoning >that can appeal only to those who love to dare... "the dareDevils". We dare to walk into a potentially dangerous world today. We dare to have our families believe that we can protect them from dangers. I dare to "know" that I can handle someone trying to swing a stick at me. >Adults (mature martial artists) don't play with matches... they know >how dangerous it is. They don't use it UnNecessarily! They just >simply use it When They Need It. You can "teach" someone to fire a gun, you can even have him fire snap caps, but he can't actually say he can shoot until he actually shoots the gun. ================================= >>Those guys are more than >>willing to help you find meaningful, realistic full contact >>training. >I am sure! ! In their terms and condition you may say so, but you see >my friend, they make money out of it and you don't, and at their best, >they study their video tapes and "learn at the Expense Of The Mistake >Of Others"... a completely smart move in their part. Actually, the Dog Brother's don't charge money for people to come and fight in the Gatherings. Sure they have classes and charge for that but so do alot of instructors in alot of MA including FMA, so the classes charge is not even a point. As far as me and the group here in Hawaii, we video tape the fights and ALL fighters who bring me a blank tape will get a copy for no charge so that they may study themselves and see what they did wrong and right. >In fact this is the reason why, a good fma discipline would never >compete, for his match will light for sure when he strikes it and >won't work again should he uses it... sooner or later he would run out >of matches.... why of course some moves are better than a match and >are more likened to a good joke which can be told twice or more and >still get a laugh, but time would come that such a joke would no >longer get a laugh but rather a toma'toe' on a face. >But I guess, some people would open the gift ahead of time before they >would give it to the celebrant... and reason, "well I wanted to make >sure it is what I bought you!" Actually, my fighting ability is for myself, and not a "gift" for anyone. I don't spar so that I can tell my students about it. I spar so that I can say I have the real fighting ability for myself. I know what I can and can not do. ================================= >>"Unfortunately", we live in civilized times, and not many people >>care to do that anymore. >It never did make sense before, it never makes sense now... Doesn't made sense to you now. This is understandable. At a different time and place in a different culture and society, it could have made sense then. ================================= >>Is that a bad thing? Well, that remains to be >>seen. >That sure is to many and not to few, otherwise, they would be >overwhelmed with support from the majority of at least fma >practitioners. Full Contact sparring with very minimal or no gear is not for everyone. Not everyone wants to gain "fighting" ability. Some are here for the art form. Some are afraid. Some even fool themselves with the "my style is too deadly" and "I already know that my stuff works, why should I do that" excuses. Nothing is wrong with someone that doesn't want to do full contact or doesn't believe in it. That is there point of view. It's like one person saying "Why do we need IBM, Apple computers, Microsoft is the best. For every reason that one can give me that Apple is better, I can give one that MS is better. It all boils down to preference. What one man would or would not do, does not mean another man should or should not do. >In my opinion, the Dog Style matches are the making of fma into an >American Style... so long as they say "fma American Style" or "fma >Braveheart Style", I have no problem with it. I wouldn't necessarily say an American style, but maybe a fighting style. What is more important? Remaining "Filipino" or being "effective". This reminds me of how one can see a beautiful flower and put it in a box. He can than tell all his friends all about it, draw pictures about it, and write stories about it. Six months later when he has a large gathering of followers that come to see the flower, he pulls it out of the box to discover a dried up brown stump. The beauty has died because he tried to preserve it by keeping it. To capture the beauty of the MA, one must return to the source. The tree that springs the flowers is the source. You can not capture this type of beauty, you must watch it as it alive and always growing. >Now should Leo Gaje says the 'Dog Style' is "Pekiti Tirsia", my >problem with it May Be lessened as the title now goes to him. I actually speak to Grand Tuhon Leo Gaje and know for a fact that he advocates this type of Full Contact sparring that the Dog Brothers do, that our group here in Hawaii does, and that his groups in the PI do sometimes without headgear. >As for now so long as people understand that the 'Dog Style' is Not >Pure FMA but in reality an "FMA Dog Style" I can live with it though >not as much as if it were known as "fma American Style" regardless of >how appropriate the "Dog Style" is to match their style. Actually the DB learn and teach other arts outside of FMA. I believe they are interested in being effective. ================================= >May all deeds, good or bad, have good end results. . . . >Peace, Joy, and Freedom, >Guro Guro_Omikl_D@Teachers.Org >Omikl >D. >Your Punong Guro >Omikl >D. >Always Once again just a reminder that I am not in any way connected to the Dog Brothers, DBMA, or DBMAA. I am in no way connected to Grand Tuhon Leo Gaje Jr., and or any Pekiti Tirsia organization and am speaking on my observations only. It is only my point of view. To learn more about the Dog Brothers, you should visit their web site at http://www.dogbrothers.com or to learn more about myself visit http://www.fullcontacthi.com for full contact stickfighting in Hawaii. "What one man would or would not do, does not mean another should or should not do." ===== Check out our web page at http://www.fullcontacthi.com and visit Chad's Corner-Full Contact Stickfighting in Hawaii. "What one man would or would not do, does not mean another man should or should not do."-Me as Myself Chad Hawaii __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: BillyJa695@aol.com Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 11:30:22 EDT Subject: Re: eskrima: Ohio Where in Ohio ? Take care, Brian Johns Columbus, Ohio In a message dated 5/20/00 9:23:42 AM, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: >From: Ray Terry >Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 04:53:46 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: eskrima: Ohio > >Off to Ohio... > >Ray > ------------------------------ From: Chad Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 10:14:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Poor Taste >>Certain things (I know what, but this is nothing to be discussed in a >>public forum >>like the Eskrima Digest and I donīt want to go into detail) happened >>between the >>brothers, that Ernesto did to Remy, that Remy could not forgive >>Ernesto. Thats why >>there is hardly any contact between Remy and Ernesto. And for what >>happened, I >>canīt blaim him for that. This kind of post really does need to stop. The man is not here to speak for himself, and this kind of post can be very dangerous. Please think more thoroughly about how we post subjects. ===== Check out our web page at http://www.fullcontacthi.com and visit Chad's Corner-Full Contact Stickfighting in Hawaii. "What one man would or would not do, does not mean another man should or should not do."-Me as Myself Chad Hawaii __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Sunny Graff <105605.2047@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 16:08:36 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #257 Hi. I=B4m hosting Grandmaster Ondo Caburnay (Cebu, Phillipines) (10th Dan= ) and Grandmaster Raoul Gianuzzi (9th Dan) (Luxembourg) for a training semina= r in the FMA Lapunti Arnis de Abanico on June 10th and 11th from 12:30-4:= 30 p.m. und 10:00-2:00 pm in Frankfurt, Germany. Cost is 70 DM. Location: Small gymnasium of the Phillip Holzmann Schule, Siolistr. 41, 60323 Frankfurt, Germany. For directions, contact me by private e-mail. Sunny Graff ------------------------------ From: abass@iname.com Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 17:39:41 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Virtual Drillmaster update Times New RomanEarlier this year some of you may recall my asking for input on a software program I was writing that would serve as 'Martial Arts Flashcards' in that random images/text/sound would play and I would then have to react appropriately with a defense, evasion, counter, whatever.  I got a lot of user input on it and even more after I finally released it. Now there is a new and VERY user friendly version of The Virtual Drillmaster available at: http://www.fyi.net/~abass/domino/ma.htm Again, your input and comments are requested and appreciated. Also, my Filipino Martial Arts page as been updated with 16 new items this month at: http://www.geocities.com/kalipages ashleyArial ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ All the busy little creatures Chasing out their destinies Living in their pools They soon forget about the sea... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~N.P.~~~ ------------------------------ From: FRANK LEE Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 19:35:37 -0600 Subject: eskrima: Bustillo Seminar INTERNATIONAL MARTIAL ARTS BOXING SEMINAR With a Black Belt Hall of Fame & World Martial Arts Hall of Fame inductee, RICHARD S. BUSTILLO. The hands-on training is not designed to compete against your style but will compliment all levels above age eighteen: male and female, beginner to advanced. We do not want to teach you only martial art techniques. We want you to be able to develop them. We call this process Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do. Evolve with change for a simple and practical seminar. No spectators or video allowed. SATURDAY AND SUNDAY, AUGUST 26 & 27, 2000 At Abbeydale Community Hall 821 Abbeydale Drive NE Calgary, Alberta Canada Saturday morning: 9:00 to 11:30 a.m. - Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do Bruce Lee's basic footwork, hand/foot speed, explosive power and strength drills, philosophies, and training concepts to enhance the three major combat ranges. Saturday afternoon: 1:00 to 3:30 p.m. - Jujitsu / Wrestling Learn basic standing and ground grappling. Sense body positioning for escapes and defense. Recognize submission holds, locking drills, counters and reverses. Sunday morning: 9:00 to 11:30 a.m. - Boxing / Muay Thai Offense/defense/counter drills on Boxing and Muay Thai techniques. Understand knee/elbow/punch/kick techniques with Thai pads for self defense and sport. Sunday afternoon: 1:00 to 3:30 p.m. - Kali / Escrima / Arnis Sinawali (double stick) and Solo olisi (single stick) drills to Pangamot (empty hand defense), Agaw (disarming techniques), Dumog (grappling), and Pormas (forms). Fee: $160 Advance $175 Door $ 90 Day $ 50 Session $150 Group (5 or more) Contacts: Sifu / Guro Daniel G. Rutano (403)250-8069 Guro Steven J. Kormos (403)248-8927 Guro Dan Lizotte (403)208-3849 Guro Frank Lee (403)248-6336 Send cheque or money order payable to: Steven J. Kormos 369 Abergale Dr. NE Calgary, Alberta Canada, T2A 6H9 ------------------------------ From: "Phil Tong" Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 23:37:25 -0700 Subject: eskrima: RE: hand protection for sparring > don't know if this was proposed before > > motorcycle type of gloves! > > -many have padded knuckles and joints > -separate fingers still allow manipulation > -thin palms for maintained feel of weapon (studded palms would > have to be illegal though) > -doubles as sparring glove > -lots of room to add/remove padding for wrist and still maintain > flexibility > -etc. > > Just an idea. > Phil > ------------------------------ From: "Phil Tong" Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 23:37:52 -0700 Subject: eskrima: RE: death points > Just wondering what if anything precursed Sulite's (?) stroke? > Because have studied information (from the "ancients") which > reports strikes to certain areas will cause stroke later in life. > Scary stuff. Was he ever injured in the neck area? > > Protect yours at all costs. > Phil > ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 07:35:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #260 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.