From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #264 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Thur, 25 May 2000 Vol 07 : Num 264 In this issue: eskrima: In response to Dr Carlton eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #263 eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #263 eskrima: Re: Oh-oh eskrima: Re: Motorcycle Gloves eskrima: Certification eskrima: Modern Arnis rank eskrima: Re: Dr. Fung's post eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #263 eskrima: Seminar in germany with Animal eskrima: Midwest Filipino Martial arts association eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #262 eskrima: Rank is rank eskrima: Rank rants eskrima: Reply to Guro Jundis [none] ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, the Martial Arts Resource, Inayan Eskrima Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jason Inay" Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 16:20:45 PDT Subject: eskrima: In response to Dr Carlton This has to be the most intelligent post I have seen yet on this thread. WTG! Jason ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Chad Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 17:47:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #263 Pat, Big Joe forwarded me #261 so here we go... Eskrima-Digest vs. Pekiti-Tirsia Digest. Superman vs. Hulk. Largo Mano vs. Serrada(oops, not that again) Thanks for putting me stuck between Ray and Loki's(BTW, congrats to Tricky Dog and all the other promotions) glances wondering who's better. I am thankfull to the both and look forward to the digests every day, as I know alot of people do. For the record though, I actually forwarded it to eskrima digest first, than PTD and forgot to take it out. OOps. >I don't mean >that >as an offensive criticism but this is a good thread. At what intensity >do >you train at and how often do you go at maximum? Stuart didn't post this part on his reply, so I got the wrong idea of what Pat was asking/saying. My bad, see what I get for responding to half a story. Bad me. >Full contact sparring what's the point? Full contact sparring >helps you be a better fighter no more than learning an FMA triangle >footwork pattern. I have to disagree with that statement Doc. In my opinion, I am a much better fighter today than I was a year ago...even 4 months ago. The lessons it has given me in timing and distance, I don't know how to really explain. >Many people miss the point of NHB/full contact/real contact etc... I have to agree with the Doc on his point also. I have seen guys that do full contact, and then think they never need to do "regular" training/practice. This is not the case. FC can be used as a vehicle to learn "how" to do what you have actually been training. I have also seen guys that do train, but never fight. Is one better than the next? IMO, no. Majestic mountains to desert of oceans. Chocolate and Vanilla. Ebony and Ivory. In my experience you learn, you practice, you fight, find out what you did wrong(did you get hit?), find out what you did right(did you hit him,deflect, etc.?), practice some more, fight, practice, fight, etc. Fighting does not make you an FMAist, however practicing doesn't make you a fighter. ===== Check out our web page at http://www.fullcontacthi.com and visit Chad's Corner-Full Contact Stickfighting in Hawaii. "What one man would or would not do, does not mean another man should or should not do."-Me as Myself Chad Hawaii __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Stuart Igarta Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 20:49:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #263 Carlton Fung, D.D.S. wrote: First I do full contact sparring and lite sparring sometimes with gear sometimes without. Here is a bold statement...Full contact sparring what's the point? Full contact sparring helps you be a better fighter no more than learning an FMA triangle footwork pattern. Many people miss the point of NHB/full contact/real contact etc... These are a piece of the puzzle and not a critical one either. Those who think it is are uninformed or diluding themselves. The late Pendekar Herman Suwanda always said..." Fighting is cheating". Think about what this means and the reality of my post becomes crystal clear. That's your opinion and I respect you for it but, I know that going full contact has not only taught me about distance and timing but about my knowledge of the art and how much I still need to learn. You can always say that you'd do this and that, if someone did this, but can you actually execute it. Full contact is a testing ground. It's asks the question, can you execute such and such deflection, if someone is coming at you at full speed with the intent of actually hitting you, instead of stopping short. I believe that full contact is a critical part of the puzzle, if that makes me uninformed and deluded then so be it. Check out our website - http://www.fullcontacthi.com ........................................................ iWon.com http://www.iwon.com why wouldn't you? ........................................................ ------------------------------ From: Chad Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 19:04:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Re: Oh-oh >>I don't mean >>that >>as an offensive criticism but this is a good thread. At what intensity >>do >>you train at and how often do you go at maximum? >Stuart didn't post this part on his reply, so I got the wrong idea of >what Pat was asking/saying. My bad, see what I get for responding to >half a story. Bad me. Another retraction on my part...it was in his original post, my apologies. My mistake. ===== Check out our web page at http://www.fullcontacthi.com and visit Chad's Corner-Full Contact Stickfighting in Hawaii. "What one man would or would not do, does not mean another man should or should not do."-Me as Myself Chad Hawaii __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: "Phil Tong" Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 20:14:05 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Re: Motorcycle Gloves Hi Chad: It figures "da boys" would have tried this out already :) Was thinking about protection not to reduce the reality aspect but potential life long injury from just working out w/friends. I say this because I've been whacked pretty good w/nunchaks (doh!) and the spot remains weak to this day (no not my head ha ha!). Not to mention all the other things wrong with this old 40 yo body. Not good. Anyways, I really like this list as I start from ground zero. The interlocks don't look like much fun if you're on the "wrong side" though so imagine if you're already hurt. "Inject, inject" (PAIN!) ho ho! Best to all, Phil ------------------------------ From: "Phil Tong" Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 20:41:14 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Certification >given the rank of 5th degree Mom always said if you can't say anything nice ;) What I wish to share is maybe this isn't that rare of an occurrence? At a recent promotion I witnessed the award of a 7th degree and the recipient performed one empty hand set and one weapon set, the style of which wasn't really to related to the sponsor school of study to begin with? But it was explained this person was promoted on the basis of not only his demonstration but that of his students also, who were up for their various promotions as well. He himself later explained it was more political than anything. Needless to say I came away disillusioned with the experience. Think I would rather stay a "white" belt or no belt at all and just concentrate on the arts. Best regards to all, Phil ------------------------------ From: rocpas@ameritech.net Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 00:50:18 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Modern Arnis rank The rank issue was always a sore spot with Remy and I. I have tried and tried to figure out the things he does. And to be honest, I use to think it was about money, but Remy has so many seminar stops now a days that he actually turns some down. My opinion for what its worth, is Remy doesn't give a rats you know what about rank. I know this to be true because he has told me. He for what ever reason, has made it his mission in life to make people happy. When I talked to him a couple years ago after not uttering a word to each other in about 3 years, I came right out and asked him where I stood since he had all these new masters and high ranks floating around. He exact answer was " Rocky you are what ever you want to be" so their you have it. This makes for an organization with no organization, and unfortunately an art that will not flourish after the man is gone. Its to bad because as I have stated I truly believe that Modern Arnis is the best FMA out their for basic self defense that can be achieved in a minimal amount of time, which suit the vast majority of the public these days. Rocky ------------------------------ From: Joshua Hutchinson Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 21:38:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Re: Dr. Fung's post Doc- I agree with the philosophy that fighting is cheating. While I feel that I am not even close to beginning to comprehend the many truths to the martial arts, I do feel that fighting is not the main objective in the MA's... Except when some jerk off knocks over my beer!!! ;) You get my drift, right? Regards, Fry Bread _______________________________________________________ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp ------------------------------ From: "arlan and angel sanford" Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 22:53:30 -0600 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #263 > First I do full contact sparring and lite sparring sometimes with gear > sometimes without. Here is a bold > statement...Full contact sparring what's the point? Full contact sparring > helps you be a better fighter no > more than learning an FMA triangle footwork pattern. Many people miss the > point of NHB/full > contact/real contact etc... These are a piece of the puzzle and not a > critical one either. Those who think it > is are uninformed or diluding themselves. The late Pendekar Herman Suwanda > always said..." Fighting is > cheating". Think about what this means and the reality of my post becomes > crystal clear. > > Regards, > > Carlton H. Fung,D.D.S. > Redondo Beach, Ca. Piece of the puzzle? It is the puzzle. We're not training to become dancers, we're training to fight and protect and become the best we can, otherwise why bother! I have to say, I love posts like this. Comments like these always seem to come from people who can't seem to make it to a fight, they talk about hard sparring, but seem to have a different context of what that entails. Everyone I've met, in or out of DB, who has really fought against someone of equal or superior skill, and wanted to improve, have talked how it changes their training from then on like nothing else they've done. People talk about how good they are (or usually,were) at being in a real fight and how sparring is not real/not applicable/ or as above, not effective or important. Blah, blah, blah. So, get out of martial arts and take up chess, 'cause what's the point? You think hard sparring and footwork drills are on the same level? Do you live on another planet? If you don't know you can apply your skills in real time, you're living a lie. I hear sometimes that fighting like we do is not real, maybe so, no fight I was in working bars required anywhere near the skill I need to fight someone like Eric. Even the biggest jerks around probably have only a handfull of "real" fights, most of which I've seen were pretty onesided. Anything more than a few begins to denote stupidity as opposed to just being a jerk, which I don't think is a problem on the digest. I would put several hundred DB fights against a couple of street fights any day. Some talk about how good they are, how deadly their strikes are, how they would do this or that- they're like Gods in their own minds! But somewhere in the back of their minds, there has to be a little voice going, "do I really know what I'm doing?" How will you know? You want to run all the plays and not play in the game? You can talk self defense (legitimate) or any number of other reasons for training, but I think it's all about developing grace under pressure; no pressure, no grace. Arlan ------------------------------ From: Kautz.Kraft@t-online.de (Michael Kautz) Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 12:45:31 +0200 Subject: eskrima: Seminar in germany with Animal The Police Sports Club in Karlsruhe/Germany is proud to present two seminars in germany with Marc Mac Young in september 2000: September 30 in Karlsruhe (contact me: Kautz.Kraft@t-online.de) October 01 in Cologne (contact Joe Thumfart: Joe-Jutsu@gmx.de) Self-Defense against armed attackers , No-Nonsense Self defense and much fun! CU Michael Kautz ------------------------------ From: "William T. Anderson" Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 23:41:32 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Midwest Filipino Martial arts association Greetings from Guam, I saw a posting concerning a Filipino Martial Arts association posted by Sid (I think). My question is who can I get in contact with regarding information of this organization? I am in the process of relocating to the Northern Illinois area and would like to get an idea of possibly joining this organization. Thanks Bill Maharlika Kuntaw Guam ------------------------------ From: "Maytin, Jose" Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 09:38:30 -0400 Subject: eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #262 Does anyone have the web page link for Chris Sayoc ? I remember coming across it a long time ago on a 'knife' site. I know he has a monthly knife seminar in NY and the schedule and info are there. Thanks ------------------------------ From: Sam Beckett Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 06:41:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Rank is rank The discussion on people "given" rank that they may not "deserve" is an interesting topic. I study the arts of combat to better prepare myself mentally, physically, and spiritually. It is an inside job for me. Rank "bestowed" for long,hard effort can be gratifying; if that is an individuals goal. I could care less if someone else is presented with a higher position, title, or rank than me, even though in MY own perception I have given more for a longer period of time. The Martial Arts serve to free the spirit from the trappings of Ego, or they serve to bind the spirit with the trappings of the Ego. Where will your spirit be when what really matters is simply the TRUTH? "If you cannot be strong, and yet cannot be weak, this will result in your defeat" Sun Tzu __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Tim Lavoie Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 10:39:30 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Rank rants With all the recent ranting about who has what rank, title and so on, the question that keeps coming to mind is... Why does anyone really care? I suppose much of my confusion is that I've come to this game relatively late (at 33, I've been doing this for a few months), so I'm not exactly seeking fame or fortune here. I train with a few others, in an informal environment. My instructor's business card mentions black belt ranks and so on, but other than that, it's never come up. Ditto for uniforms, only the kids' karate class wears them, so there are no belts to differentiate at a glance. I guess the point here is that we know who we are, and we know who is teaching whom. I don't really see the point of fretting over rank, *EVERYONE* has something to learn. If you know enough to be the teacher, you likely have a teacher of your own, or perhaps peers that you share with, and learn from. Lineage should be useful to know someone's background, to know what they may have to show, and what you know that maybe they don't yet. Beyond that, it should soon become obvious who knows what, without anyone declaring that they or someone else is the Ranking Grand Poobah on a particular land mass. Sorry, I guess this is a rant of my own. I just want to hang out and learn, without all the fuss; we don't need a pecker-stretching contest, we have sticks for that. Cheers, Tim - -- Ah, yes. I remember my first beer. -- Steve Martin to a heckler ------------------------------ From: "IESA" Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 12:44:42 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Reply to Guro Jundis Dear Elrik, Thanks for your post. It's been quite a while since we all got together and I'm sure there's much to talk about since so many things have changed personally and also within the art. It was a different time back then. We were all different people then. Now, things have changed and there's alot of things happening within IESA. We do our own thing, everyone else does theirs, and it's all good since we're all practicing and promoting the arts. Let's get together over some food and talk. Just shoot us an e-mail off-line. Peace, Bob IESA +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | The coolest site for free home pages, email, chat, e-cards, movie info.. | | http://www.goplay.com - it's time to Go Play! | +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 16:35:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #264 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.