From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #271 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Wed, 31 May 2000 Vol 07 : Num 271 In this issue: eskrima: Re: full-contact eskrima: Lightning Scientific Arnis/Outside Deflection Application Video eskrima: fc knife fighting? how about guns? eskrima: Rosie O'Donnell-"Pistol packing mama" [none] ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, the Martial Arts Resource, Inayan Eskrima Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jeff T. Inman" Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 11:04:38 -0600 (MDT) Subject: eskrima: Re: full-contact > From: "q" > Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 23:24:07 -0700 > Subject: eskrima: what-is-the-point? to your "EDGE" > Patrick writes: > > However, if you spend your time learning what it is like to be hit > (and > > to hit) you loose the concept that Eskrima is a blade art. There is > > absolutely no place for swapping blows. > > Very important point. Cutting does not need much force. I have not talked > to Crafty Dog about this but it appears that he does realize this. That is > the reason I believe he brought in the aluminium training daggers and > discouraged the blunt short dowels. He is bringing DB into a higher > reality. An intersting note I witnessed in the last DB gathering was that > it appeared that the combantants where swinging harder and trading more > blows with less defense. Consistent with that intensity level there was a > great "long and aluminium dagger" contest where one combatant apparantly > forgot this is not a wood dowel. He closed and took a NASTY aluminium > dagger to the chest wearing nothing but a t-shirt. He kept going dispite > obvious effect by his instant body posturing. For the remainder of the > contest he did not close anymore. If you're talking about my fight with Chris "True Dog" Clifton, I'm going to have to add a few comments. First, I don't consider it very ignoble to get dinged up a bit fighting with Chris. He fights like a bucket full of pit bulls, and has put dings in better fighters than me. He put some marks on me. My bad. Had this been a fight with real knives, I would've probably been killed. (By the way, and Chris can straighten me out on this if I'm mistaken, but I think part of the reason he wanted to close was that I had smacked the heck out of his stick arm, and he couldn't swing it effectively.) But that is just Arlan's point: if my only options were training with drills or fighting with real knives, the lesson I learned there would probably be impossible. As it is, I've learned something that (my opinion) would be damned difficult to teach someone in a class, and which probably stands a halfway decent chance of being applicable in a real fight. Sure, the footwork stuff is nice. Sure, it's useful to know trapping and disarm techniques. Yes. But in my experience it is very rare to go full contact with someone who hasn't done much FC before (regardless of how many drills they've done), and not get the feeling that they are easy meat. They don't understand timing, and they don't understand distance. This isn't a failing of their teachers, in my opinion. Secondly, I guess you didn't see the bit where, chastened by my initial failure to fend Chris off, I closed cleanly on him, cut him a new carotid artery and got back out again. Or for that matter, the stroke he took from me at the very beginning of the fight. Maybe the guys standing on the sideline are not always the most knowledgable about what happened in a fight. Also, if it is indeed my fight you were talking about, you are very mistaken about whether I was feeling pain. If you've done much full-contact, you know that pain is a strange thing. I've had several bones broken at DB gatherings, and have usually not noticed them until the fight was over. When I broke my ulna, the reason I stopped the fight wasn't pain, but rather the crepitation (look it up), which made me think I might be hurt. What was going on there is exactly what was supposed to go on there: I became determined to focus more sharply for the rest of the fight. I agree with you that full-contact fighting is only a part of the puzzle, but it's a big fat honking part, and you can't build the puzzle without it. Obviously, that's just my opinion. Also, no argument about whether DB-style fighting teaches you everything you need to know about defending yourself. But given the opportunity to face your attacker, I'd say it's got some relevance. If a guy lets you tap instead of breaking your arm, it's a perfect opportunity to learn about how you might get your arm broken in a real fight. Obviously, it's still up to you to try not to let that happen again. If you do make the choice to learn something, then someone who *is* willing to break your arm will find you that much harder to catch. If a guy is willing to smack you upside the haid with a tire iron, he'll probably find you harder to hit, because others have smacked you with rattan and you've learned how to avoid it. But I'd call it negligence to convince a student that he was ready to deal with tire irons if he's never been hit good and hard with rattan. Drills are not enough. Nobody has claimed that drills have no place anymore. In fact, everyone I've ever seen do any DB-style fighting seems to approach their drills afterwards with new enthusiasm. It's like they suddenly understand what they want to learn from the drills. They suddenly understand "what the drills mean". Regards, Jeff Inman ------------------------------ From: Chad Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 17:07:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Lightning Scientific Arnis/Outside Deflection Application Video I know Allan Sachetti has a Lightning Scientific Arnis Video, but he also has a "Masters" video with Elmar Ybanez and some others on the tape. I think he's on the digest, if not someone else listed his site. BTW, very nice execution of an outside deflection during a full contact "sparring/whatever" on video in slo-mo at http://www.fullcontacthi.com/chad/video/outsidedeflection.htm . ===== Check out our web page at http://www.fullcontacthi.com and visit Chad's Corner-Full Contact Stickfighting in Hawaii. "What one man would or would not do, does not mean another man should or should not do."-Me as Myself Chad Hawaii __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Raphael Chiu Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 18:07:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: fc knife fighting? how about guns? Hello Everyone, I am way late for the discussion on FC fighting. But maybe I can get some feedback on a question with a little spin to it. My disclaimer here is that after going through five E-D mailings, I started to skim through the letters sent, thus I might have missed some important details. My other disclaimor is my background is very minimal with FMA and I am rather young with it. However, in my pre FMA days I did spar with only the intention of finding out what works, i.e. this was NEVER done for point sparring or tournament reasons. Thus I understand and appreciate the arguments made by all. Here's my point. I think we all agree that at the bare minimum, fc sparring is another tool in your toolbox, with how far it goes being argued. Being that we do this to learn to fight, how far does the approximation go? I'm not arguing here that sticks aren't mortal. I see the obvious modern day translation to tire irons, kro-bars, baseball bats, etc., but I think most of us would agree that it is probably easier to survive a blow with a blunt weapon than a like blow by that of a blade. So to come full circle, how many of us spar with knives and at what intensity do you go? Examples: 1. Preset drills with real blades. 2. Light sparring: face shield with neck guard, magazines and newspapers wrapped around the torso and arms, dull blade. 3. FC sparring: mimimalist padding, sharp blade. On a crazier note, how about with guns? Didn't I hear somewhere that some group trains with rubber bullets and padding? With much respect, Raphael Chiu Filipino Kali-Eskrima Academy of Chicago Defensor Method __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: T2J2M2@cs.com Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 21:51:23 EDT Subject: eskrima: Rosie O'Donnell-"Pistol packing mama" On FoxNews.com I read that Rosie O'Donnell, the anti-handgun activist, has now received a CCW from the state of Conneticut. Since she has little direct knowledge of how to properly handle a firearm, I would humbly suggest that we send her several subscriptions to magazines such as guns and ammo, soldier of fortune, handgun, combat handguns, delta press, palidin press, swat, and other such reading material so she will have all the information needed to utilize new weapon should she need to. ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 18:55:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #271 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.