From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #293 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Wed, 14 June 2000 Vol 07 : Num 293 In this issue: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #291 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #291 eskrima: Ready? Dig WAY down! eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #292 SF Bay area eskrima: fist controversy eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #292 eskrima: Vid update(again) eskrima: Vid update(again) [none] ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, the Martial Arts Resource, Inayan Eskrima Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Powrscrol@aol.com Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 21:00:47 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #291 In a message dated 00-06-13 09:24:58 EDT, you write: << The vertical fist is more conducive to keeping the elbow down which is a better alignment for generating power. Keeping the elbow down also seems (to me) to make that vertical gunting less effective because it rotates that nerve plexus just above the elbow toward your center line making it more difficult to strike. The twisting punch rotates this plexus outward (into the open) exposing it more to attack by the vertical gunting. IMHO of course. Respectfully, Dave Fulton >> True. And the same is true with the 3/4 twist punch (instead of full twist). Also with the 3/4 twist, it's easy to focus on the index knuckle -- with the elbow locked (but not "overlocked"), or slightly bent & dropped with dynamic tension. Try knuckle pushups on the 1st 2 knuckles; there will be wrist flexion; " " " " " index knuckle " " " less flexion; " " " " " last 3 knuckles; " " " even less. This shows where forearm-wrist-fist alignments are stronger. Again (of course), last 2 knuckles don't recieve initial impact with Wing Chun punch. ------------------------------ From: Powrscrol@aol.com Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 21:01:25 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #291 In a message dated 00-06-13 09:24:58 EDT, Buz writes: << I find myself almost always using the vertical fist. Think the main reason is that I like backfists and find it's easier to throw them starting from a vertical fist. >> If you launch your backfist from a 3/4 or horizontal fist position, you'll have a little torque-power along with your speed, as the 1st 2 knuckles rotate into the strike. ------------------------------ From: "Dave & Heather Fulton" Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 22:54:23 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Ready? Dig WAY down! This question is directed mainly towards the old time Pekiti-tirsia people from the NY era, like Tuhon McGrath, Eric Knaus, etc (you'll see why in a minute). My teacher (David Wink) often mentions a Kuntao teacher from the NY era that used to hang around with Leo Gaje, but he knows him only by the name "Master Edwin". Anyway, I'm just trying to find out more about Master Edwin ... who he is, where he is now, does he still teach, etc .... just curious. Also, if anyone has any recent info on "Eddie" Jafri, I'd like to hear that as well. The last I heard, he was back in Indonesia and that was about a year ago. Finally, to clarify my previous comment on punches, as a rule of thumb I go by: hard-target=soft-weapon/soft-target=hard-weapon. As a result, I attempt to avoid punching people in the head so this obviously affects my methodology, as does the fact that being vertically challenged I'm usually punching upwards anyway . Of course, if I had to hit someone, my first choice would be a stick. Thanks in advance. Dave Fulton Full Contact Martial Arts Association "As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another." ------------------------------ From: Jeffrey Monaghan Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 20:59:20 -0700 Subject: eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #292 SF Bay area I would also like to add Guy Chase to the list. He teaches Inosanto-LaCosta blend under Dan I., LucayLucay from Ted and Lucky before they passed, Villabrille-Largusa Kali under Ben Largusa and Mel Lopez (He trains with Fremont group regularly. Guro Manny Dragon is in Daly City about ten minutes from SF). In addition to kali he also teaches grappling (Certified Full Instructor under Karl Gotch), Mande Muda (Full instructor)from the late Herman S., Bukti Negara from Dan and DeThours. Thai under Arjarn Chai, and Silver Glove in France in Savate (I can't even begin to spell his name). We use to have a lot of French and Algerian fighters come and train but not lately. Lots of good material. School info @ www.GuyChase.com Jeff Monaghan ------------------------------ From: SpiritWkr3@aol.com Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 01:24:06 EDT Subject: eskrima: fist controversy out of lurking once again...... great discussion on hand positioning and which knuckles are most effective for striking. It's been my experience that different trainers or instructors may teach a different method of hand positioning for the jab, cross, etc. (I myself have been instructed in 4 different "correct" ways to jab...) Unfortunately many people see their way as the "only" way, without taking into account not only the biomechanics involved, but more importantly IMO that people are anatomically different... that is, while the basic anatomy of the hand is the same, variations in individual bone length, mass, etc. can and do exist between individuals. Not to mention the subject of individual muscle and ligamentous support. So what "feels" right to one practitioner may be quite different to another. When I started training in karate years ago, I was taught to left hook by pronating my fist so it was parallel to the floor. Felt unnatural as hell to me but I was assured it was the "correct" way to hook, even though every time I landed a shot it felt like my wrist was going to break. It wasn't until years later when a boxing instructor advised me to keep my fist in a "neutral" position (perpendicular to the floor) during the hook that it finally felt right. He referred to it as a "mexican hook", a term I've never come across since. Anyone familiar with the terminology? Anyway just my $.02.... Peace, Rick spiritwkr3@aol.com ------------------------------ From: "Steven C. Drape" Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 00:03:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #292 Service Brought To You By http://WWW.DWP.NET - -------------------------------------------- >> Next most common fracture would be the fourth knuckle (ring finger/4th >> metacarpal head). It's much less common but pops up occasionally. I >personally >> have never seen a fracture of the 2nd or 3rd (index and bird) knuckles >from >> striking although someone probably has. They are not common. > I think people are talking about two separate things here in this thread. If we are talking about boxing, then there is little point in discussing which knuckle does what. The hand is wrapped such that you basically hit with a club- a flat surface across several knuckles. With boxing, the problem is more with wrist and elbow problems. It is interesting to note, though, that whenever you hear about boxers getting in a streetfight, you also often hear that one or both broke their hands. They are used to fighting with wraps, and don't train for bareknuckle contact. With barehand striking, knuckles become the focal point of the discussion. Unless you practice striking hard surfaces everyday, and have built up heavy callus on your knuckles, then you will break your hand when you hit someone, or at the least, get cut/scraped by teeth. You don't hear about it so much, but several of the UFC fighters quit fighting mostly because they had broken their hands so many times they couldn't participate anymore. Myself, I've had two fights where I suffered damage to the knuckles. In the first one, I actually had a tooth get lodged in one of my knuckles, embedded in the bone. The resulting infection was no fun. The second fight resulted in the bird and ring finger knuckles being crushed, so badly that those two fingers are now more than a centimeter shorter than the same fingers on the other hand. There is another aspect of hitting with a closed fist, even if you never throw a punch in anger. Repeated strikes to heavy bags or makiwara posts over years of training can have a very detrimental effect on the small bones in your wrist. Many fighters end up with several of these bones fused together from the repeated pounding, and this is a major cause of arthritis and other joint problems later in life. I can't speak for anyone else, but I have gone to using only palm strikes and fingertips to the face/head. Anyone who continues to strike hard surfaces repeatedly under the guise of training for fighting is kidding themselves. Steve Steve_kbs@dwp.net http://www.geocities.com/eartes/KBS_System_index.html ------------------------------ From: Chad Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 02:47:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Vid update(again) With all this talk about punching, Stuart put up another video of him punching someone in the mask. For those of you that have read it, this is the fight that I talk about James slipping up and losing his stick under the "Sunday Battles" section "10-07-99". So do you guys think this is a vertical or horizontal punch? BTW, he got a nice kick in there,too. I wonder if Stu cared. Stuart "The Animal Web Technician" just keeps on going. ===== Chad Full Contact Stickfighting Hawaii http://www.fullcontacthi.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! http://photos.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Chad Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 02:42:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Vid update(again) With all this talk about punching, Stuart put up another video of him punching someone in the mask. For those of you that have read it, this is the fight that I talk about James slipping up and losing his stick under the "Sunday Battles" section "10-07-99". So do you guys think this is a vertical or horizontal punch? I wonder if Stu cared. Stuart "The Animal Web Technician" just keeps on going. ===== Chad Full Contact Stickfighting Hawaii http://www.fullcontacthi.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! http://photos.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 06:59:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #293 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.