From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #336 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Wed, 12 July 2000 Vol 07 : Num 336 In this issue: eskrima: TLC Documentary Revisited eskrima: KK in Hawaii eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #335 eskrima: The Definition of 'Maha Guru' eskrima: Mime-Version: 1.0 eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, the Martial Arts Resource, Inayan Eskrima Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kendal Coats Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 11:01:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: TLC Documentary Revisited Watched the tape again last night, and I noticed that the policeman student stated that Bruce Lee used Escrima for his weapons scenes, they then showed some footage of a Bruce look alike, Bruce Li mabey, but Bruce Lee, nope. Mabey the editors just didnt know? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Chad Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 12:42:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: KK in Hawaii Met someone last Friday that tells me she knows some people that trains in Krabi Krabong here in Hawaii. She is going to get in touch with them for me. Does anyone know of these guys? ===== Chad chad@fullcontacthi.com Full Contact Stickfighting Hawaii http://www.fullcontacthi.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Mike Casto Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 17:32:29 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #335 << From: WEE Shin Hoe Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 15:13:01 +0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: Maha Guru I would like to clarify that my earlier reply on the subject does not imply any disrespect to Maha Guru Nathan Defensor. In my opinion, he is one of the few that do deserve the Maha Guru title by founding an effective fighting system. The words Maha Guro do come from Sanskrit. If you study the early history of South East Asia, most the countries here are heavily influenced by Hindu culture before the advance of Islam. In fact, you can still see hints of Hindu influence in Bali and Thailand. The Malay language, either Bahasa Malaysia or Bahasa Indonesia, borrows heavily from both Sanskrit and Abrabic. However, Maha Guru is not a title to be given lightly, only the founder of a system or "Teacher of teachers" uses the title. One does not declare himself as Maha Guru unless he is the head of the system. As most of the Silat systems here are quite old. Out of respect to their system's long deceased original founder, most of the current head of a system here avoid using the title Maha Guru. Sincerely, S. H. Wee shinhoe@pc.jaring.my >> Absolutely! Pak Victor de Thouars uses the title Maha Guru for the system of Tongkat which he developed. He calls himself only a Guru of Silat Serak. Pak Vic also considers the term Maha Guru in the same light as you ... it is earned when one is the founder and teacher of a system. Regards, Mike - -- In the middle of difficulty lies opportunity. -- Albert Einstein _______________________________________________ Why pay for something you could get for free? NetZero provides FREE Internet Access and Email http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ------------------------------ From: John Chow Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:39:46 +1000 Subject: eskrima: The Definition of 'Maha Guru' This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------093AB35D82C3E48E606E309D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The term 'Maha Guru' is originally Indian. This is the definitive definition since I have been a student of Buddhism and Hinduism for more than 25 years (was founder of the Buddhist Club at university in 1976):- 'Maha' means 'great':- as in Maha Guru, Maha Pandit, Mahatma, Maha Vairocana, Maha Gana Puja, Maha Karuna, Maha Ati Yoga, Maha Sukha, Maha Siddha, Maharaj....etc.... all meaning something very high and mighty and elevated. As Mr. Wee pointed out, it is not used in normal addressing, and very much used post humously, and only very occassionally (rather, rarely) used when addressing a very great figure. In Tibet, when we use this term, and the term 'Guru Rinpoche', it usually refers to the very great master Padma Sambhava ( Guru Rinpoche means 'precious guru', but every guru is most precious to his Tantric student, but the student will never address his lama as Guru Rinpoche, NEVER!!! ). Maha Guru also refers to Padma Sambhava, especially to the Nyingma Sect. Every Tantric student regards his master as the great, and greatest guru, but he will never call his master by the title Maha Guru, although that is what the title actually translates as - Great Guru. (I do note that in devotional and refuge prayers, the term Lama Sangye Rinpoche is used, meaning........ I take refuge in 'the Lama who is the precious Buddha'..... but that is not addressing the lama as by that title) This is Asian custom, whether Indian, Chinese, Tibetan, Indian, Malay, Indonesian or maybe, Filipino. Whether we follow this custom or not in the West is another issue. I am merely stating what we used to adhere to as custom at home. I think Head/Principal Instructor or Master in Filipino circles may possibly translate as 'Punong Guro'? I deliberated/debated this title of Punong Guro with PG Edgar Sulite, and he said his idea is the 'chief or head master', so he felt he is entitled to it since he is the founder and chief instructor of Lameco. I think different people have different opinions and ideas how titles should be constructed and used. Some people may just used it as an advertising gimmick, and not really view themselves as that great, and not really use it in student - master relationship. (Like a few Datus in Modern Arnis do not really care whether you datu them or not). The titles catch attention - that brings in students and help spread the art. The real world is a fantasy world - remember this! We need to cater for such mentalites, which may be the majority, if we wish to spread the art. We are dreamers. If we do not have a dream, a fantasy,......... we do not strive for a goal. Of course, how far into fantasy we venture into, is a matter of skill in balancing reality/truth/fact with fantasy. That makes a balanced person! I note:- truth is only fantasy made reality - as long as people believe in something and work hard towards it, then it BECOMES true, .... our truth is a self created truth. Fact and fiction is a matter of degree in this 'funny' world. So, what should we do about people who call themselves all sorts of high sounding names? Well, my opinion is just treat as a joke and humour. Either they were ignorant when they compose the title or they deliberately used the title to bring in students and prestige which, ultimate, may help spread the art. Whatever the reason, if they insist to be called that, well, why not humour and oblige them? They expect to be called that and the respond to that title, so that is a way of calling them. Might as well call them a title or name that they will respond to. I do not mind calling someone God or Jesus Christ if that is the name he goes by. Whether I think it is a bit odd that he wants to be known as God is another issue which I reflect with humour, but I will certainly call him 'God'. Not a problem with me. One thing - it is a frequent and typical customary joke in Asia to call someone or refer to someone as "Oh.... Mr Tan, my great master!" "Grandmaster Ho" etc etc. Sometimes it is just a jest, a friendly pat, ....... anything, and occassionally, an annoyance, even a subtle criticism of the addressee's ego. It is very common. When I am In Asia, I am always sensitive to such addressing - it MAY mean something other than the actual words used - something opposite. And I do it myself too! I called somebody here "Maha Guru, Maha Vidhydahara Jeff Tan", and I bow profusely to him. I actually mock him because my group of friends think his big ego got so much the better of him. It is an Asian way of hinting to look at yourself! We do not tell people straight in their face 'You have such a f.... big ego'. Mr. Wee, right? - --------------093AB35D82C3E48E606E309D Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="jychow.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for John Chow Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="jychow.vcf" begin:vcard n:;default x-mozilla-html:FALSE adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:default@au.oracle.com fn:default default end:vcard - --------------093AB35D82C3E48E606E309D-- ------------------------------ From: Luis Pellicer Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 09:12:59 +0800 Subject: eskrima: Mime-Version: 1.0 > >The words Maha Guro do come from Sanskrit. If you study the early >history of South East Asia, most the countries here are heavily >influenced by Hindu culture before the advance of Islam. In fact, you >can still see hints of Hindu influence in Bali and Thailand. The Malay >language, either Bahasa Malaysia or Bahasa Indonesia, borrows heavily >from both Sanskrit and Abrabic. > > I have no background in the arts of these countries, but I would imagine that if the title would be properly used, it would pertain to these arts more so than the FMA. In fact, the only time I've ever heard the word "Guro" used here was with reference to school teachers. I have never heard the word Maja Guro used in the Philippines, and I've lived here all my life, and traveled all over. I'm sure the word may have existed, as both ARE still used singularly. As the only intact Hindu culture in SEA, I'm sure Bali would be an interesting place to experience pre-islamic SEA culture. A similar title, "professor", is used in Illoilo for FMA instructors, but it is used in the Spanish sense which is a couple of notches lower than the American word "Professor". ("teacher" in general as opposed to a " Senior Teacher" in a institute of higher learning.) LPIII ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 20:55:11 PDT Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #336 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.