From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #348 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Tues, 18 July 2000 Vol 07 : Num 348 In this issue: eskrima: Re: Kali Virus eskrima: Shaolin & Boddie-man eskrima: virus hoax eskrima: "Muay Thai : the most distinguished art of fighting" eskrima: Various musings eskrima: Equipment & Full Contact eskrima: Detriot Pekiti Seminar eskrima: email hoax eskrima: Just a matter of time eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, the Martial Arts Resource, Inayan Eskrima Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Todd Ellner Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 22:35:58 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Re: Kali Virus Bill McGrath writes: > FYI: This information was announced yesterday morning from Microsoft. Most of fake virus warnings are supposed to come "from Microsoft" or "from IBM". So I went and checked... There's no mention of it from CERT or Bugtraq. Macafee's website says it's a hoax. Don't worry about it. Todd ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 23:14:43 PDT Subject: eskrima: Shaolin & Boddie-man Like I said, time to move on. Take it offline. Thanks. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: p.taylor@talk21.com Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 09:02:21 BST Subject: eskrima: virus hoax Sorry Bill, I'm afraid this is a hoax written by sad little men than use other peoples good will and help nature to spread this junk over the net. Its been well recorded in my own IT company (BT.com) and others see http://www.av.ibm.com/HoaxFrame/TV/tv.html Paul - -------------------- talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at http://www.talk21.com ------------------------------ From: "Jonathan Broster" Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 09:26:46 GMT Subject: eskrima: "Muay Thai : the most distinguished art of fighting" There is a shop in SE London that stocks this book http://www.blitzsport.com Mabuhay Jon ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Luis Pellicer Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 19:05:47 +0800 Subject: eskrima: Various musings I think part of the problem lies in the lack of a credible unifying body in the FMA to set standards and definitions. Until this is straightened out, there will be no end to "defining" what means what. With the disagreements going on TODAY, what will it be like several decades from now, when the Filipino roots of the Arts are removed by a dozen or so generations? We can surmise for the next hundred years, and we will not be any closer to "what really was", than we are today. That is unless archeological evidence is found in the future which may prove or disprove what we want to believe. In the mean time how often do you hear the "spreading of Filipino" Culture line, yet the actual manifestation is grossly culturaly incorrect? It should properly be called then, Western manifestation of Arnis, Escrima etc. What do we know for certain? That the traditional FMA "school" (get-together would be more appropriate) was in the backyard of some old mans house, that a couple of times a week young men would come over offering some sort of gift (usually food) and convince him to show them a couple of moves, that these young men would then practice amongst themselves whenever they could. Any more than this is conjecture, or getting a piece of the puzzle and assuming the whole is similar in nature. The founders of the older "clubs" and "organizations" studied this way, and just trying to verify the name of thier teachers teacher is IMPOSSIBLE. Forget assumptions on what went on 600 years ago, we have no way of verifying what went on even 100 years ago. The "hidden" Arts? Except for larger "cities", there weren't that many Spaniards to have to "hide" anything from. We want ancient, like this in some way or form is superior to fairly recent innovation. Yet most names of the movements, in the Art we practice are Spanish. Renaming them to what Lapu-lapu MAY have called it does not change a thing. Deep Tagalog, as well as other dialects I have heard but do not speak, do not ressemble the Spanish language. (Except for Chavacano) The languages and dialects do not seem to overly tainted by the Spanish colonialization, but why is Spanish the predominant language used to describe moves in our "ancient" Art? To say that only the Spanish speaking Illustrados or servants of Spanish speaking households were smart enough to define the movements, is an insult to the Filipinos intelligence. Makes you wonder about who carried on the ancient martial tradition as we know it, the oppressed or the oppressors. I read what academic works are available, and in instances where the ancient warfare is mentioned, it resembles what I have seen in war dances in Banaue and Sagada more than it does our Art as practiced today. I have a couple of dozen blades from all over the archiapelago, all short in-fighting weapons. (except for my Kampilan, I don't consider the "tourist" krises a weapon) Yet I don't have a single shield, spear, or bow and arrows, all of which I have read were the weapons of CHOICE. I can't argue with these authors, because they are dead. If they were alive, my only reference would be "an old man told me so". I don't think they would take me seriously. If someone has a CREDIBLE reading which states otherwise, please let me know. I don't mean that sarcastically either. We have various titles used to denote rank in various styles, we pride ourselves in our difference, and laugh at the others BECAUSE of thier difference. Yet WE ALL made them up as no proof of who, called who what exists; that in the country of the Arts birth they are unheard of, except for the title "Mang so and so". (Or thier derivatives.) In spreading the Art to the West, certain concessions have to be made in teaching method and internal heirchy to make it "palatable" to the Western mind. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with this. If that's what the students need, then by all means, give it. No problem unless, a multiple generation-down student, far removed from the filipino roots of the Art, thinks he is training in the "Ancient, proper" way. And tells us that WE Filipinos who trained in Mang so and so's backyard, who are from the Philippines, speak the language and LIVE the culture, who have no vested interests in the FMA, that WE are the ones who don't know what the hell we're doing. Malabo na yan. Walang McSpaghetti na matamis at may pulang hotdog sa America. Again, unless there is a governing body to straighten all this out, to set a uniform standard in the FMA, the ART as a whole will continue as we say out here, Hau Shau. LPIII ------------------------------ From: "BILL MCGRATH" Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 23:41:58 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Equipment & Full Contact RE: FIST headgear. The people at FIST invited me to their shop in the early 90's to check out their gear. I was impressed with the impact resistance of the Lexan visor on the headgear but I thought the design of the headgear itself was to cumbersome for FMA sparring. It also left some major gaps open to thrusts and punyos. I don't feel that the FIST gear is a viable option for full contact stick work. RE: Manadnoc autolock baton: My agency is currently in the process of evaluating this baton. Pros vs the ASP baton. The Manadnoc baton has a recessed button in the butt that allows you to close the baton with hand pressure only. This allows the user to remain standing when closing the baton and keeps the tip from developing burrs that could cut an offender. The baton can also be opened and closed more discreetly than the ASP. Cons vs the ASP: The few Manadnoc autolocks I have seen did not lock open as reliably as the ASP. This may be a inherent tendency with the design because Manodnoc addresses this problem in the literature that accompanies the baton. They recommend manually extending the baton with both hands if this occurs. I have been a certified ASP baton instructor since 1988 but I gave my recommendation to my superiors that we authorize the Manadnoc baton for our agency. Thrusts are not part of my agency's baton curriculum, so the problem with an inconsistent lock on opening is not as much of a problem as for the martial artist. I also had to factor in the skill and interest levels of ALL the officers in my agency, not just the top 10%. For the civilian members of this list who live in a state where you can carry a collapsable baton, the ASP would probably serve you better. RE: Full Contact: I don't want to reprint my post from the last time this subject came up, so I'll keep it short. I don't see how you can properly prepare yourself for combat with any type of martial art (not just weapon work) without full contact sparring. The problem we have as instructors is that the line between too much and too little sparring is a slim tightrope that is at a different height for each student and which moves as each student progresses. You also have to decide what kind of job you have as an instructor. Is it "Boot Camp" where your job is to take 100 guys and teach them enough to survive in the time you have? Is it "Hell Week" where your job is to find the best 10 out of that 100? Or is your job like a specialist on a specific weapon, who takes the 10 best and sharpens one particular skill? Or are you a doctor who has someone come in the door and says "This part of me does not function properly, please get it working as it should." You may have to do each of these jobs depending one who walks through your door. Imagine though how disconcerting it would be for a student who thinks he is going to the "doctor's office" finds that he is in the middle of "hell week". I often use the analogy of teaching a child to swim. Throw ten kids in the deep end of the pool on the first day and some will swim without a problem, some will swim but develop a phobia about water, and some will sink. Conversely, keeping all ten at the shallow end for too long does even the poor swimmers no good. If they are going to panic the fist time they are in over their heads, it is better that they do so while watched by a lifeguard. If someone is unafraid but sloppy at the deep end, it means that they should go back to the shallow end for a while, not that the pool should be drained and made an even 2 feet deep for everyone always. This would only work if we could make all oceans, lakes and rivers a person could fall into a uniform 2 feet deep as well. Regards, Tuhon Bill McGrath http://www.pekiti-tirsia.com ------------------------------ From: "BILL MCGRATH" Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 08:18:13 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Detriot Pekiti Seminar Just a reminder, I will be conducting a single and double stick seminar in Detriot MI. this coming weekend (22nd & 23rd). For more info please contact: Mr. Chris Malgeri (248) 616-0580 jkdgym@aol.com Regards, Tuhon Bill McGrath ------------------------------ From: Steve Grantham Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 08:30:26 -0400 Subject: eskrima: email hoax Tuhon McGrath forwarded a message to the list, and upon research, I discovered it is a hoax, not attributed to Tuhon McGrath, of course.. Please do NOT forward this message to others! Steve ------------------------------ From: "Virginia Martial Arts" Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 09:18:26 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Just a matter of time Every so often we have the same kind of thread on the digest. Historians and linguists seem to perpetuate their duration. There have been threads on Punong Guro, Suro, Professor, Tuhon, Mano, Master, Gat Puno (sp?), blah, blah, blah. I have stepped up to the plate during the professor thread to defend his right to call himself what ever he wanted to. I don't even know the person. If you tolerate this kind of slanderous bs, then it is just a matter of time before you and your group are under scrutiny from keyboard warriors you don't even know. Dale ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 6:42:35 PDT Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #348 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.